Comments on: Tuesday Open Thread http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/11/tuesday-open-thread-71/ A black bourgeoisie perspective on U.S. politics Fri, 10 Feb 2012 14:11:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: Buy Facebook Fanshttp://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/11/tuesday-open-thread-71/comment-page-1/#comment-1042681 Buy Facebook Fans Tue, 01 Nov 2011 01:26:15 +0000 http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=17161#comment-1042681 <strong>Check These Out...</strong>[...]check below, are some totally unrelated websites to ours, however, they are most trustworthy sources that we use[...]... Check These Out…

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]]> By: Plantsmantxhttp://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/11/tuesday-open-thread-71/comment-page-1/#comment-334687 Plantsmantx Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:01:51 +0000 http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=17161#comment-334687 It seems to me that you (and vdrome) went beyond China, and the possibility that it may become a military aggressor beyond its own back yard. It seemed to be offered as a "reason" for blacks to cheerlead the U.S. on to do...the same thing you're afraid China is going to do, and that cheerleading will help us to "assimilate". It seems to me that you (and vdrome) went beyond China, and the possibility that it may become a military aggressor beyond its own back yard. It seemed to be offered as a “reason” for blacks to cheerlead the U.S. on to do…the same thing you're afraid China is going to do, and that cheerleading will help us to “assimilate”.

]]> By: Guns3000http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/11/tuesday-open-thread-71/comment-page-1/#comment-334686 Guns3000 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:50:45 +0000 http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=17161#comment-334686 I here what you are saying Plant. And being a black person and calling yourself an American without some hesitance is understandable . But I was trying to make a wider point. This whole "discussion" started with my comments on China from a national security standpoint. Another person made it a racial one. Now I'm not dismissing what they said. My larger point is no matter the differences you may have with race in this country other countries are not going to care if they choose to do harm to American citizens. No one is cosigning xenophobia. What I am saying is don't let internal problems cloud your judgment when dealing with external problems. Does the Chinese government or the Venezuelan government care about racial disagreements amongst American citizens? I don't think so. You may not consider yourself an American. But the world considers you an American. When I travel and I pull out that American passport and the country I'm in doesn't like America everything that you said in your post is a moot point. You are the object of their hatred and you may disagree with the US government but you or your family members may be punished for it.<br><br>Anyway, I think I made my point on this China thing. I want to clarify my statements on the "American" thing. I don't equate being an American with the worst of this country. And I said this other day I'm not concerned with what white people think I am or what "Real Americans" think I should be. Those "Real Americans" don't decide who I am or what think of myself and too many us black people are concerned about what white people think we should be. I here what you are saying Plant. And being a black person and calling yourself an American without some hesitance is understandable . But I was trying to make a wider point. This whole “discussion” started with my comments on China from a national security standpoint. Another person made it a racial one. Now I'm not dismissing what they said. My larger point is no matter the differences you may have with race in this country other countries are not going to care if they choose to do harm to American citizens. No one is cosigning xenophobia. What I am saying is don't let internal problems cloud your judgment when dealing with external problems. Does the Chinese government or the Venezuelan government care about racial disagreements amongst American citizens? I don't think so. You may not consider yourself an American. But the world considers you an American. When I travel and I pull out that American passport and the country I'm in doesn't like America everything that you said in your post is a moot point. You are the object of their hatred and you may disagree with the US government but you or your family members may be punished for it.

Anyway, I think I made my point on this China thing. I want to clarify my statements on the “American” thing. I don't equate being an American with the worst of this country. And I said this other day I'm not concerned with what white people think I am or what “Real Americans” think I should be. Those “Real Americans” don't decide who I am or what think of myself and too many us black people are concerned about what white people think we should be.

]]> By: Plantsmantxhttp://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/11/tuesday-open-thread-71/comment-page-1/#comment-334685 Plantsmantx Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:06:03 +0000 http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=17161#comment-334685 No, I'm not going to become a defender of China, but I'm also not going to become jingoistic and imperalistic. Somewhere on this thread, you say that you've earned the right to be an American". It seemed odd. I wondered what you meant by "American". I wondered if you meant you've earned the right to be as xenophobic as all the white Real Americans. Well, for one thing, you could have been alive at any point during the history of this country, and Real Americans wouldn't have rejected you cosigning their xenophobia because you're black. That's something you didn't have to "earn". Of course, at least in modern times, including today, they also wouldn't have told you that they look upon you in the same way they look upon those other people.<br><br>If that's becoming an "American", then I'll never be one, and the thought causes me no consternation whatsoever. I'll remain a Black American, and retain the different, and many times, wider and more accurate perspective that psychic distance affords us. I value that much more than Real Americaness. No, I'm not going to become a defender of China, but I'm also not going to become jingoistic and imperalistic. Somewhere on this thread, you say that you've earned the right to be an American”. It seemed odd. I wondered what you meant by “American”. I wondered if you meant you've earned the right to be as xenophobic as all the white Real Americans. Well, for one thing, you could have been alive at any point during the history of this country, and Real Americans wouldn't have rejected you cosigning their xenophobia because you're black. That's something you didn't have to “earn”. Of course, at least in modern times, including today, they also wouldn't have told you that they look upon you in the same way they look upon those other people.

If that's becoming an “American”, then I'll never be one, and the thought causes me no consternation whatsoever. I'll remain a Black American, and retain the different, and many times, wider and more accurate perspective that psychic distance affords us. I value that much more than Real Americaness.

]]> By: Guns3000http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/11/tuesday-open-thread-71/comment-page-1/#comment-334682 Guns3000 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:01:17 +0000 http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=17161#comment-334682 Am2k9, are you going to "think critically" if a enemy of America drops a bomb and kills one your family members. Are you going to simply say, "Oh, they have right to do that because the things America has done it the past." <br><br>Don't be silly. If someone is trying to kill me I don't care about his reasons. When the next World War starts which is going to happen. Your foolish textbook outlook of the world will be meaningless. I don't care what your logic is. If you are an American(of whatever color) you are the enemy. Ahmadinejad will not look fondly on you for "trying to walk in his shoes." BWAHAAHAHA What type of fantasy land do you live in because I'm coming so I can hang with Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. And lets say I take your advice. What should America do? Jump in a time machine and undo the past? Foolish girl, thank God there will be men like me that picks up a weapon and defend your ass so I can come home and be lectured about US foreign policy of past centuries.<br><br>Edit: And one last thing. Contrary to what some may believe Obama doesn't think like you either. He will pull the trigger if it's in America's best interest. Hopefully one day your mind will mature into the real world. May God bless you and may God continue to bless the United States of America with its greatness and its shortcomings. HAHAHAHAHAHHA Am2k9, are you going to “think critically” if a enemy of America drops a bomb and kills one your family members. Are you going to simply say, “Oh, they have right to do that because the things America has done it the past.”

Don't be silly. If someone is trying to kill me I don't care about his reasons. When the next World War starts which is going to happen. Your foolish textbook outlook of the world will be meaningless. I don't care what your logic is. If you are an American(of whatever color) you are the enemy. Ahmadinejad will not look fondly on you for “trying to walk in his shoes.” BWAHAAHAHA What type of fantasy land do you live in because I'm coming so I can hang with Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. And lets say I take your advice. What should America do? Jump in a time machine and undo the past? Foolish girl, thank God there will be men like me that picks up a weapon and defend your ass so I can come home and be lectured about US foreign policy of past centuries.

Edit: And one last thing. Contrary to what some may believe Obama doesn't think like you either. He will pull the trigger if it's in America's best interest. Hopefully one day your mind will mature into the real world. May God bless you and may God continue to bless the United States of America with its greatness and its shortcomings. HAHAHAHAHAHHA

]]> By: Guns3000http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/11/tuesday-open-thread-71/comment-page-1/#comment-334688 Guns3000 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:37:34 +0000 http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=17161#comment-334688 Agreed, but they have their own fault lines as well. Agreed, but they have their own fault lines as well.

]]> By: Guns3000http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/11/tuesday-open-thread-71/comment-page-1/#comment-334683 Guns3000 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:36:46 +0000 http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=17161#comment-334683 Vdrome, what some blacks don't understand is that other people in the world looks at them like Americans especially now with a black president. Some blacks in America separate themselves as "African" Americans which I don't get but that's another post. When terrorists took down the World Trade towers they didn't stop and make sure all the "blacks" left the buildings. When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor they didn't stop and make sure there were no blacks on those ships. And if another country attacks us again the perpetrator of that attack will not make that distinction either. So yes I say "United We Stand." Vdrome, what some blacks don't understand is that other people in the world looks at them like Americans especially now with a black president. Some blacks in America separate themselves as “African” Americans which I don't get but that's another post. When terrorists took down the World Trade towers they didn't stop and make sure all the “blacks” left the buildings. When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor they didn't stop and make sure there were no blacks on those ships. And if another country attacks us again the perpetrator of that attack will not make that distinction either. So yes I say “United We Stand.”

]]> By: AM2k9http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/11/tuesday-open-thread-71/comment-page-1/#comment-334681 AM2k9 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:36:22 +0000 http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=17161#comment-334681 The problem is, when Iran tells Barack Hussein Obama or George Walker Bush to "fuck off", they have every right to do so. Walk in their shoes for a minute: Let the Iranian govt. overthrow the democratic-elected President of the U.S and then install a dictatorship that, for 40+ years, will work to protect the interests of Iranian corporations: All of us will be telling Iran to "fck off." In many ways, the same thing can be said of the Chinese. Go and read about the British's occupation of China. If you do, then you'd probably take articles talking about how "'Western" "British" and "Americans" are "troubled" by China's "rise"" (like the one you posted) and laugh at it. <br><br>Now, before you talk about America's "enemies", you have to think critically and ask yourself: Why are they our "enemies"? Who gets to design them as such? I mean, we were told that the Vietnamese were our enemies; right? We were told the Iraqis were our enemies? Now we are told that the Iranians are our enemies or that Hugo Chavez is our enemy. Come on? Please, think critically; decolonize your mind... it may do you some good. The problem is, when Iran tells Barack Hussein Obama or George Walker Bush to “fuck off”, they have every right to do so. Walk in their shoes for a minute: Let the Iranian govt. overthrow the democratic-elected President of the U.S and then install a dictatorship that, for 40+ years, will work to protect the interests of Iranian corporations: All of us will be telling Iran to “fck off.” In many ways, the same thing can be said of the Chinese. Go and read about the British's occupation of China. If you do, then you'd probably take articles talking about how “'Western” “British” and “Americans” are “troubled” by China's “rise”" (like the one you posted) and laugh at it.

Now, before you talk about America's “enemies”, you have to think critically and ask yourself: Why are they our “enemies”? Who gets to design them as such? I mean, we were told that the Vietnamese were our enemies; right? We were told the Iraqis were our enemies? Now we are told that the Iranians are our enemies or that Hugo Chavez is our enemy. Come on? Please, think critically; decolonize your mind… it may do you some good.

]]> By: Guns3000http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/11/tuesday-open-thread-71/comment-page-1/#comment-334684 Guns3000 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:25:06 +0000 http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=17161#comment-334684 When you put it like that Plant I don't disagree. But if as an American of any descent you are going to be defender of China because of US racial history that is where I have a problem. Do you think the countries that want America destroyed care about US' citizens racial squabbles? I don't think so. When you put it like that Plant I don't disagree. But if as an American of any descent you are going to be defender of China because of US racial history that is where I have a problem. Do you think the countries that want America destroyed care about US' citizens racial squabbles? I don't think so.

]]> By: Guns3000http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/11/tuesday-open-thread-71/comment-page-1/#comment-334689 Guns3000 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:19:30 +0000 http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=17161#comment-334689 You could look at "any" country's prosperity and see impropriety. One thing I do know my grandparents were dirt poor and came to this country and made something of themselves. In America with an abundance of opportunities the last thing that is on my mind is "White America." Nobody stopped me from enrolling college. Nobody stopped me from having a career. Nobody stopped from working hard. So you can concentrate on "Greed and Racism" but I'll concentrate on opportunities and that is the beauty of America. It seems like you are stuck in a "past" mentally. American's success is my success because it provides the opportunities for people like me (YES BLACK PEOPLE) the opportunities to be successful. You could look at “any” country's prosperity and see impropriety. One thing I do know my grandparents were dirt poor and came to this country and made something of themselves. In America with an abundance of opportunities the last thing that is on my mind is “White America.” Nobody stopped me from enrolling college. Nobody stopped me from having a career. Nobody stopped from working hard. So you can concentrate on “Greed and Racism” but I'll concentrate on opportunities and that is the beauty of America. It seems like you are stuck in a “past” mentally. American's success is my success because it provides the opportunities for people like me (YES BLACK PEOPLE) the opportunities to be successful.

]]> By: Plantsmantxhttp://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/11/tuesday-open-thread-71/comment-page-1/#comment-313877 Plantsmantx Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:01:51 +0000 http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=17161#comment-313877 It seems to me that you (and vdrome) went beyond China, and the possibility that it may become a military aggressor beyond its own back yard. It seemed to be offered as a "reason" for blacks to cheerlead the U.S. on to do...the same thing you're afraid China is going to do, and that cheerleading will help us to "assimilate". It seems to me that you (and vdrome) went beyond China, and the possibility that it may become a military aggressor beyond its own back yard. It seemed to be offered as a “reason” for blacks to cheerlead the U.S. on to do…the same thing you're afraid China is going to do, and that cheerleading will help us to “assimilate”.

]]> By: Guns3000http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/11/tuesday-open-thread-71/comment-page-1/#comment-313866 Guns3000 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:50:45 +0000 http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=17161#comment-313866 I here what you are saying Plant. And being a black person and calling yourself an American without some hesitance is understandable . But I was trying to make a wider point. This whole "discussion" started with my comments on China from a national security standpoint. Another person made it a racial one. Now I'm not dismissing what they said. My larger point is no matter the differences you may have with race in this country other countries are not going to care if they choose to do harm to American citizens. No one is cosigning xenophobia. What I am saying is don't let internal problems cloud your judgment when dealing with external problems. Does the Chinese government or the Venezuelan government care about racial disagreements amongst American citizens? I don't think so. You may not consider yourself an American. But the world considers you an American. When I travel and I pull out that American passport and the country I'm in doesn't like America everything that you said in your post is a moot point. You are the object of their hatred and you may disagree with the US government but you or your family members may be punished for it.<br><br>Anyway, I think I made my point on this China thing. I want to clarify my statements on the "American" thing. I don't equate being an American with the worst of this country. And I said this other day I'm not concerned with what white people think I am or what "Real Americans" think I should be. Those "Real Americans" don't decide who I am or what think of myself and too many us black people are concerned about what white people think we should be. I here what you are saying Plant. And being a black person and calling yourself an American without some hesitance is understandable . But I was trying to make a wider point. This whole “discussion” started with my comments on China from a national security standpoint. Another person made it a racial one. Now I'm not dismissing what they said. My larger point is no matter the differences you may have with race in this country other countries are not going to care if they choose to do harm to American citizens. No one is cosigning xenophobia. What I am saying is don't let internal problems cloud your judgment when dealing with external problems. Does the Chinese government or the Venezuelan government care about racial disagreements amongst American citizens? I don't think so. You may not consider yourself an American. But the world considers you an American. When I travel and I pull out that American passport and the country I'm in doesn't like America everything that you said in your post is a moot point. You are the object of their hatred and you may disagree with the US government but you or your family members may be punished for it.

Anyway, I think I made my point on this China thing. I want to clarify my statements on the “American” thing. I don't equate being an American with the worst of this country. And I said this other day I'm not concerned with what white people think I am or what “Real Americans” think I should be. Those “Real Americans” don't decide who I am or what think of myself and too many us black people are concerned about what white people think we should be.

]]> By: Plantsmantxhttp://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/11/tuesday-open-thread-71/comment-page-1/#comment-313845 Plantsmantx Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:06:03 +0000 http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=17161#comment-313845 No, I'm not going to become a defender of China, but I'm also not going to become jingoistic and imperalistic. Somewhere on this thread, you say that you've earned the right to be an American". It seemed odd. I wondered what you meant by "American". I wondered if you meant you've earned the right to be as xenophobic as all the white Real Americans<sup>TM</sup>. Well, for one thing, you could have been alive at any point during the history of this country, and Real Americans<sup>TM</sup> wouldn't have rejected you cosigning their xenophobia because you're black. That's something you didn't have to "earn". Of course, at least in modern times, including today, they also wouldn't have told you that they look upon you in the same way they look upon those other people.<br><br>If that's becoming an "American", then I'll never be one, and the thought causes me no consternation whatsoever. I'll remain a Black American, and retain the different, and many times, wider and more accurate perspective that psychic distance affords us. I value that much more than Real Americaness. No, I'm not going to become a defender of China, but I'm also not going to become jingoistic and imperalistic. Somewhere on this thread, you say that you've earned the right to be an American”. It seemed odd. I wondered what you meant by “American”. I wondered if you meant you've earned the right to be as xenophobic as all the white Real Americans<sup>TM</sup>. Well, for one thing, you could have been alive at any point during the history of this country, and Real Americans<sup>TM</sup> wouldn't have rejected you cosigning their xenophobia because you're black. That's something you didn't have to “earn”. Of course, at least in modern times, including today, they also wouldn't have told you that they look upon you in the same way they look upon those other people.

If that's becoming an “American”, then I'll never be one, and the thought causes me no consternation whatsoever. I'll remain a Black American, and retain the different, and many times, wider and more accurate perspective that psychic distance affords us. I value that much more than Real Americaness.

]]> By: Guns3000http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/11/tuesday-open-thread-71/comment-page-1/#comment-313799 Guns3000 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:01:17 +0000 http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=17161#comment-313799 Am2k9, are you going to "think critically" if a enemy of America drops a bomb and kills one your family members. Are you going to simply say, "Oh, they have right to do that because the things America has done it the past." <br><br>Don't be silly. If someone is trying to kill me I don't care about his reasons. When the next World War starts which is going to happen. Your foolish textbook outlook of the world will be meaningless. I don't care what your logic is. If you are an American(of whatever color) you are the enemy. Ahmadinejad will not look fondly on you for "trying to walk in his shoes." BWAHAAHAHA What type of fantasy land do you live in because I'm coming so I can hang with Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny? And lets say I take your advice. What should America do? Jump in a time machine and undo the past? Foolish girl, thank God there will be men like me that picks up a weapon and defend your ass so I can come home and be lectured about US foreign policy of past centuries. Am2k9, are you going to “think critically” if a enemy of America drops a bomb and kills one your family members. Are you going to simply say, “Oh, they have right to do that because the things America has done it the past.”

Don't be silly. If someone is trying to kill me I don't care about his reasons. When the next World War starts which is going to happen. Your foolish textbook outlook of the world will be meaningless. I don't care what your logic is. If you are an American(of whatever color) you are the enemy. Ahmadinejad will not look fondly on you for “trying to walk in his shoes.” BWAHAAHAHA What type of fantasy land do you live in because I'm coming so I can hang with Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny? And lets say I take your advice. What should America do? Jump in a time machine and undo the past? Foolish girl, thank God there will be men like me that picks up a weapon and defend your ass so I can come home and be lectured about US foreign policy of past centuries.

]]> By: Guns3000http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/11/tuesday-open-thread-71/comment-page-1/#comment-313795 Guns3000 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:37:34 +0000 http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=17161#comment-313795 Agreed, but they have their own fault lines as well. Agreed, but they have their own fault lines as well.

]]> By: Guns3000http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/11/tuesday-open-thread-71/comment-page-1/#comment-313794 Guns3000 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:36:46 +0000 http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=17161#comment-313794 Vdrome, what some blacks don't understand is that other people in the world looks at them like Americans especially now with a black president. Some blacks in America separate themselves as "African" Americans which I don't get but that's another post. When terrorists took down the World Trade towers they didn't stop and make sure all the "blacks" left the buildings. When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor they didn't stop and make sure there were no blacks on those ships. And if another country attacks us again the perpetrator of that attack will not make that distinction either. So yes I say "United We Stand." Vdrome, what some blacks don't understand is that other people in the world looks at them like Americans especially now with a black president. Some blacks in America separate themselves as “African” Americans which I don't get but that's another post. When terrorists took down the World Trade towers they didn't stop and make sure all the “blacks” left the buildings. When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor they didn't stop and make sure there were no blacks on those ships. And if another country attacks us again the perpetrator of that attack will not make that distinction either. So yes I say “United We Stand.”

]]> By: AM2k9http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/11/tuesday-open-thread-71/comment-page-1/#comment-313793 AM2k9 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:36:22 +0000 http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=17161#comment-313793 The problem is, when Iran tells Barack Hussein Obama or George Walker Bush to "fuck off", they have every right to do so. Walk in their shoes for a minute: Let the Iranian govt. overthrow the democratic-elected President of the U.S and then install a dictatorship that, for 40+ years, will work to protect the interests of Iranian corporations: All of us will be telling Iran to "fck off." In many ways, the same thing can be said of the Chinese. Go and read about the British's occupation of China. If you do, then you'd probably take articles talking about how "'Western" "British" and "Americans" are "troubled" by China's "rise"" (like the one you posted) and laugh at it. <br><br>Now, before you talk about America's "enemies", you have to think critically and ask yourself: Why are they our "enemies"? Who gets to design them as such? I mean, we were told that the Vietnamese were our enemies; right? We were told the Iraqis were our enemies? Now we are told that the Iranians are our enemies or that Hugo Chavez is our enemy. Come on? Please, think critically; decolonize your mind... it may do you some good. The problem is, when Iran tells Barack Hussein Obama or George Walker Bush to “fuck off”, they have every right to do so. Walk in their shoes for a minute: Let the Iranian govt. overthrow the democratic-elected President of the U.S and then install a dictatorship that, for 40+ years, will work to protect the interests of Iranian corporations: All of us will be telling Iran to “fck off.” In many ways, the same thing can be said of the Chinese. Go and read about the British's occupation of China. If you do, then you'd probably take articles talking about how “'Western” “British” and “Americans” are “troubled” by China's “rise”" (like the one you posted) and laugh at it.

Now, before you talk about America's “enemies”, you have to think critically and ask yourself: Why are they our “enemies”? Who gets to design them as such? I mean, we were told that the Vietnamese were our enemies; right? We were told the Iraqis were our enemies? Now we are told that the Iranians are our enemies or that Hugo Chavez is our enemy. Come on? Please, think critically; decolonize your mind… it may do you some good.

]]>