Comments on: Spike Lee on Tyler Perry and black imagery in entertainment

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By: Guns3000

Guns3000 — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 05:56:29 +0000

Oh and "Madea goes to Jail" people are going to be talking about 20 years from now LOL

Ok lets talk facts Do the Right Thing was 20 years ago and people are still talking about it

Spike has classics : Malcolm X, Jungle Fever, When the Levees Broke, 4 Little Girls, Real Movies with real messages not slapstick shuck and jive comedy

How many bonafide classics does TP have? How many up and coming black actors in 10 years are going to be stars in Hollywood that TP is promoting? NONE

Do you know how many stars Spike had a hand in making.

Denzel Washington, Halle Berry, Wesley Snipes, Samuel L. Jackson. These people are are bonafide stars.

By: nthomas00

nthomas00 — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 02:26:05 +0000

It may have grossed almost 200 million, but his films still don't get the notoriety that Tyler Perry's films do. “Inside Man” is a movie nobody's going to even think about 10 or 20 years from now

By: Guns3000

Guns3000 — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 01:56:29 +0000

By: nthomas00

nthomas00 — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 22:26:05 +0000

It may have grossed almost 200 million, but his films still don't get the notoriety that Tyler Perry's films do. “Inside Man” is a movie nobody's going to even think about 10 or 20 years from now

By: angee_is_mad

angee_is_mad — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 05:27:12 +0000

Here's the deal people.
TP is successful because he had built up a base from the plays. These plays were in churches, gyms and eventually moved to bigger venues. Then came the videos of the plays. Hell go to any beauty salon and you could get a Madea play on dvd. He created a grassroots fan base. When he decided to make these plays (that people had seen live or had the tapes) in Motion Pictures these people came out. It didn't matter that they had already seen it hundred times before. He broke records with these people. Then he tapped into our big name Black actors (Angela Bassett)that hollywood had forgotten or ignored and gave them a job.
Just imagine the bitter pill Angela Bassett had to swallow to star in TP's movie. I don't know about you, but I damn near cried. This is a woman who should have had at least ONE Oscar for What's Love Gotta Do with It, X, Boys in the Hood and she ended up in a Tyler Perry movie?
Rikyrah I respect you greatly. I understand your point in theory, but in reality you can not compare TP's success and ask why no one else has done it. TP had hundreds of thousands of play and dvd fans before he even made a movie. He was not an unknown. The mainstream didn't know who he was, but we sure as hell did. Heck my mother has a Madea collection of his plays and movies.
When Spike Lee came out he had a little buzz from his independent movie, but he did not have the masses waiting for him to make a movie. He sure as hell didn't have all that theater and dvd sales money that TP had already banked.
A better comparison for TP would be the other diredctors on the chitlin circuit and why didn't they go out and get that money like TP. At the end of the day TP is about making a dolla holla. If anyone believes differently, I got a bridge to nowhere to sell you. This is a man who would put gospels songs in his plays while talking about putting a cap in someone's ass. He covered every black demographic doing this and they (we) ate it up.
I agree with Spike's point, but because he is making this point he is coming across as being a hater when there is no need. At the end of the day, he made one of the best movies of all time. The one that Denzel said he should have gotten the Oscar for instead of Training Day. And TP has.......Madea?

By: 4jasmine

4jasmine — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 05:04:02 +0000

Wow what a great post! I didn't even know black enterprise had a channel! The black grocery store owner across the street from my house has articles of it posted in his store, but I didn't now it was more than just a magazine. I loved Do the Right Thing. I did my final paper on it in Art History and got an A on it. Jungle Fever was aiight. But I have major respect for Spike Lee and I agree 1000% with what Guns3000 was saying about TP. I despise TP's Madea movies. I was watching the play on tape with my sister and mom and they loved it. I walked out because it was just dumb to me. Now I realize the social ramifications of his Madea movies. I'm sure Tyler Perry has more to his craft than just coonery, (I didn't see all his work) but when you think TP, you think Madea, and that is a problem. There are times where, like my brilliant black art history professor said, you have to check your political baggage at the door and just enjoy the film. But he just keeps bombarding the market with these dumb movies, a sellout in my mind. I do have hope for him because he is sponsoring “Push” which I read and was scarred by. (I read it when I was 10, because my classmates were talking about how good it was.) But he is intelligent and he should know better.

By: Guns3000

Guns3000 — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 03:31:36 +0000

I agree with everything you had to say. And we need to have this conversation in our community. Black people have made TP successful. Some Black folks love his movies. Now I'm not going to be like some other people and call them names because all of his work isn't terrible. If TP grows as an owner and director in his artform. I will be the first one to “show him love” but if 10 years from now I'm still seeing the same “playbook” that will be a big disappointment. It's not that I don't think Madea type of movies should be made I just think we need balance. White people can have Adam Sandler and JackAss because there are million movies where white people are smart and in leadership positions etc. It Tyler Perry has a black studio and is the only one and he continues to release the same type of material that is out now. That's a problem.

By: carolinagirl

carolinagirl — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 02:54:57 +0000

You raise very good points.

Why would black film/book consumers be any different from the “mainstream”?

By: carolinagirl

carolinagirl — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 02:51:48 +0000

Tell the truth Ruth!!!!

Criticize the man all you want, but back it up and step it up. All these critics need to put their money where their mouth is.

By: allheavens

allheavens — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 02:28:59 +0000

If Perry was not as successful would the conversation be different? Or has the fact that he has made $368 million off his "product" colored our perception?

Sorry, I have to go with Guns3000 on this one. If Perry were white we would not EVEN be having this conversation. I don't care if white filmmakers and writers have niches, we need to ask more of our filmmakers and writers because the white community's self-immolating rate is not at the staggering proportions of the Black community.

And when is someone successful enough to stop making derivative, misogynistic, cliched, stereotypical, homages to class warfare and start making something I don't have to wash, rinse and repeat my soul after viewing?

Final question: Perry has made enough money to stop wearing the dress but will he?

Yes, I have seen Perry's movies because I try not to critique any films I have not seen. I also have my issues with Spike but he has a right to his opinion and to voice it publicly.

By: trose1

trose1 — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 02:18:00 +0000

Guns u are 100% correct. I have watched Tyler Perry's movies before and his TV shows. They are ok. It is buffonery and coonin at its finest. I think Tyler Perry is talented. I am HOPING and WISHING he sees the light. People can agree to disagree. Maybe Spike and Tyler can get together and shock the world.

By: rikyrah

rikyrah — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 02:01:24 +0000

I hear you with your point about DISTRIBUTION, which is why I don't get why they don't turn to the ' small screen' for projects in between the movie projects.

By: Guns3000

Guns3000 — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 02:00:59 +0000

I think Spike Lee has a huge chip on his shoulder, and he's just hatin' because he hadn't had a movie have the type of success that Tyler Perry's films have had since “Do the Right Thing” and “Malcom X.

Oh really, Inside Man grossed almost 200,000,000 worldwide. That seems pretty successful to me.

By: Monie

Monie — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 01:51:45 +0000

I agree wholeheartedly with you…your write-up was spot on. And the points you made about making small-screen projects about the lives of those like Sojourner, Ida B. Wells, Booker T, etc would be well worth it and much needed…..but will the masses really tune in? yes many of us here at JJP would LOVE those things, but overall will we collectively as Black people support these projects…..even though it still needs to be done regardless of ratings.

About ten years ago, while in college I volunteered at a local museum during an exhibit called ” A Slave Ship Speaks: The wreck of the Henrietta Marie.” I was so excited, I learned everything I could to be a good guide and I just knew traffic would be so great…..and mean, of all the places in America, Hampton Roads in one of the most historical places in the country(Jamestown Settlement, Colonial Williamsburg, the first Africans landing in America, etc) and yet attendance started out well initially, (like the first weekend) but quickly waned…..I was so saddened. How could this be…here we had an exhibit of a period inour history which began Black people's journey in this land…a slave ship with actual shackles that were worn by the enslaved, and yet the attendance was tepid, especially in an area of the country that builds part of it tourism off of history.

By: Guns3000

Guns3000 — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 01:46:03 +0000

LIke I said I don't want to make this an attack on TP because I think he is a righteous person that has worked hard and deserves success. He's a blackman and I'm not going to tear him down.

Spike has a history of this and most of the time he is correct.
He's called out Qentin Tarantino, Clint Eastwood, Anti Defamation League, George Bush, Eddie Murphy rappers etc. Sometimes I agree with him sometimes I don't. So all these people talking this "Spike is being crab or jealous" are complete toolbags and they don't know Spike's history. This is what Spike does. Spike is outspoken but there is a method to his madness. He is an academic and he takes his craft seriously. Spike genuinely cares about black people and he doesn't give a shit if Hollywood black balls him or not. They've been trying to do it to him for decades. And I'll always respect Spike because he is a man first before anything. I read rikyrah's post and she was talking about "PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS" That's a good point. Well, no matter how much money you have in Hollywood you still need DISTRUBUTION. And you still have to go through the traditional power brokers to do that. And ever since Spike had the "Mo Betta Blues" Jewish controversy(look it up if you don't know) he has had issues. I don't care how much money TP has if a movie theater owners refuse to show his money there isn't shit he can do about it. This issue kind of pisses me. Disagree with Spike but all this disrespect for a man that has done so much for black people. How much success would a lot of black actors have without Spike? Lets see Denzel, Snipes, Halle Berry, Samuel L Jackson etc. If gave them real opportunities to show their talent and didn't type cast them in bullshit. Which happens to a lot of black people in Hollywood. How many bonafide black stars are TP's movies creating besides TP? How many of TP's movies can I sit down with my daughter have a teaching moment about the black perspective? And don't get me wrong I like to laugh and joke too. But lets call it what it is?