Tuesday Open Thread

15 Sep 2009 Author: rikyrah

Good Morning.

As you go through your day, don’t forget JJP.

Drop those links. Engage in debate. Give us trivia and gossip too.

And always, have a peaceful day.

Tags: Open Thread

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dthomas_85
Well I don't know if you care or not, but I am an African American who voted for Obama in the PA primaries and in the general election. However, I don't ignore facts because I originally supported him.
It took a lot to support him even though he flipped on FISA, NAFTA and public financing before he was even elected. Yes this was duplicitous because he strongly opposed FISA, NAFTA, and supported Public Finance during the primaries. And anyone who watched the full campaign knows that these policy shifts were all done out of political expediency, not political principle.
His Washington insider cabinet appointments were also troubling. Choosing to place someone who voted for the Iraq war as Secretary of State along with a VP who voted for the debacles was very troubling. When I make a horrible mistake in my job, I usually don’t get promoted, lol. Appointing a Wall Street sycophant like Timothy Geithner as treasury secretary signaled early who his loyalty would be with. The Wall Street TARP bailouts were proof of this loyalty. What about his chief of Staff , Rahm Emanuel, who was integral in pushing for NAFTA under Clinton and also voted for the Iraq War when in Congress during the Bush regime. This is change! Lmao.
Worse of all is his governing and conceding thus far. I haven’t posted here for long, but I hope there is a genuine discussion going on about how his administration has increased contracts to private mercenaries with tax payer dollars. There are more private mercenaries serving in Afghanistan than regular soldiers- this is problematic.
His support for the Wall Street bailout was a betrayal considering he campaigned as an anti establishment populist. Duplicitous indeed. I mean why are we subsiding crooks? Also there’s the side deals with pharmaceutical companies, cowardly refusal to repeal DADT and a failing healthcare plan which makes me think we are not off to the best start in this first 8 months.
It’s because of all these things that have happened that I’m pushing back against what I see.
carolinagirl
That's how it's going down now at the Cracker ass Cracker Barrel. SMH. And nobody helped the woman?
http://ladyvenoms.wordpress.com Ladyvenoms
let the church say, “ya-men!”. plus, mr. monogram jacket cussed out the umpire yesterday during the men's final and he wasn't given any kind of code violation.
eff that!
http://ladyvenoms.wordpress.com Ladyvenoms
okay! do we really need people to meet up in a big room and eat rubber chicken and tea to decide that racism still exists?
evita
Ok I see why you are upset. I personally haven't disagreed with his hires of HRC, JB, RE, or TG.
These facts you are upset about (screaming duplicity) are your opinions and you are entitled to them. I don't share the same opinion about his hires or his governing. I think we need an intellectual who is truly commited to leading in a different way than Bush. He's doing what I hired him to do. If he's not doing what YOU hired him to do- ok I get that. I'm not saying be quiet or go away. I'm saying say it differently and maybe you'll pursuade me. Right now you sound like the namecalling trolls. Give respect and you will get it from me whether I agree with you or not.
Have you done or said something 10 years ago and your opinion changed? In my world its not a flip flop, its evolution. Its your style of politics that makes dislike it. You are not always going to get everything you want in the time frame you want it. That's life. Coward for DADT? Two words: political capital. He's got more time to do more work and I believe he will do something about it. Right now he's fixing the economy which IS more important.
Keep fighting but if you want to be heard by me anyway- do it differently or I will scroll past your name like I do Karmi and other troll types. D, my favorite conservative, posts are read because he engages in a way I feel is different than fighting. JMO. Respect sis.
evita
I read it. What she is saying is vague:
“So far, Obama has been unwilling to adopt policies specifically geared towards closing this ever-widening divide.” Which ones is she talking about? Did this discussion fall to the wayside while our economy was bleeding out? Need more info before I believe this person…
“Almost all of the public debate about the conference focused on its supposed anti-Israel bias. When it actually took place in April in Geneva, virtually all we heard about was Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's inflammatory speech, which was met with rowdy disruptions, from the EU delegates who walked out, to the French Jewish students who put on clown wigs and red noses, and tried to shout him down.” AND HOW IS IT THE FAULT OF THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION?
“The US civil rights movement had embraced the first Durban conference, held in summer 2001, with great enthusiasm, viewing it as the start of the final stage of Martin Luther King's dream for full equality. Though most black leaders offered only timid public criticism of the president's Durban II boycott, the decision was discussed privately as his most explicit betrayal of the civil rights struggle since taking office.” Obama said this STRAIGHT UP during the campaign. He would not be the President of Black America, he was going to be President for ALL America. Again I really feel like this vague speak- the Civil Rights Movement? Who is that? I didn't even know there WAS a movement. Who are these people? Congressional Black Caucus didn't support Obama- they supported Hillary Clinton. Betrayal? The economy was bottoming out and he had work to do at home. It's not like he was playing golf in Hawaii. Who is this chick writing this article? Talk about paternalistic.
“The overriding message was that even though the most visible signs of racism had largely disappeared – colonial rule, apartheid, Jim Crow-style segregation – profound racial divides will persist and even widen until the states and corporations that profited from centuries of state-sanctioned racism pay back some of what they owe.” So let me get this straight. Obama is supposed to be undoing ALL OF THIS in the form of REPARATIONS in his first 8 months WHILE we are in an economic meltdown, while the country is buggin the hell out that a Black guy is President, and while we also have a few wars going on too… lol… in a country where Sotomayor acknowledging her cultural heritage having an influence on her lens is construed as racism… lol WOW. I love idealism but this is like a an anti racist fairy tale.
“What is tantalising (and maddening) about Obama is that he has the skills to persuade a great many Americans of the justice of such an endeavour.”Does she really think that making a speech is enough to change people's minds? Curb their fears? Unravel every nuanced bit of prejudice that took 500 years to produce?
“The crisis in African American wealth has only been deepened by the larger economic crisis.” I agree.
“If Obama traced the Wall Street collapse back to the policies of redlining and Jim Crow, all the way to the betrayed promise of 40 acres and a mule for freed slaves, a broad sector of the American public might well be convinced that finally eliminating the structural barriers to full equality is in the interests not just of minorities but of everyone who wants a more stable economy.” I agree as well, but does she REALLY THINK that Obama could reverse this in his first three months in office?
“In his Philadelphia “race speech”, Obama was emphatic that race was something “this nation cannot afford to ignore”; that “if we simply retreat into our respective corners, we will never be able to come together and solve challenges like healthcare, or education, or the need to find good jobs for every American”. Yet as soon as the speech had served its purpose (saving Obama's campaign from being engulfed by the Wright scandal), he did simply retreat. And his administration has been retreating from race ever since.” I'm really starting to get pissed. She offers ALL of this criticism and without a CONTEXT of what ELSE is happening in the US. I have a question. WHEN THE FUCK WAS THIS WHITE CHICK THE FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. It's really easy sitting her blonde experience to dismiss the challenges he faces as a black man, or better the FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT of AMERIKKKA.
I'll tackle the rest another time. Dthomas, how dare this white lady sit in judgement of an experience and a job she has no clue about. How dare she lay the issue that has been plaguing the US since its inception as the sole responsibility of the first Black President. Number 1: she may think of herself as anti racist- but her chastisement of this Black man is RACIST as hell. She gotta lot of freakin nerve. Number 2: her lack of context makes her sound like a wingnut. Number 3: I'm sick and tired of anti racists, civil rights people, and everyone else asserting what people should be doing based on THEIR identity. He was a moderate. He was always a moderate. Raging liberals made him their messiah but he never ever said or whispered anywhere… “don't worry ya'll Imma get us reparations.” Does he think it? I have to say maybe he does, did he say he could accomplish such a feat on the campaign? No? It's like lighting a match and walking through a sprinkler. That idea will more than likely fail.
Here are my thought: Naomi can suck it. White liberal racist. I don't have the stomach to read the last 4 paragraphs. I apologize for the cussing but this article made me MAD as hell.
dthomas_85
Oh boy.
Well first here is a link to the democracy now video where Ms Klein discusses in great detail her piece and everything that we have been discussing:
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/9/14/naomi_kle…
I encourage you to watch it (only ten minutes) so there is no confusion about what she’s trying to say.
“AND HOW IS IT THE FAULT OF THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION?”
Ms. Klein did not say that the circumstances of the First World Conference against Racism was Obama’s fault, she was merely retelling the story of what happened because the first campaign was distorted by the media. The corporate media only focused on what happened with the Iranian president, and did not focus on everything that was going on during the Conference. What was excluded from the media coverage was the grass roots global movement for reparations.
Where she critiques Obama –and rightfully so- is that President Obama used the misinformation peddled by the media and others about the first World Conference against Racism as a lame excuse not to attend the event in 2009. He chose not to attend even though the Congressional Black Caucus went out of their way to make sure there was no anti-Israel sentiment in the declaration of the conference. And the TRUTH is, there was very little anti Israel sentiment at the first conference in the first place.
“Obama said this STRAIGHT UP during the campaign. He would not be the President of Black America, he was going to be President for ALL America.”
So attending a World Conference against Racism is Obama being president of Black America???? I would want any US president-regardless of hue- to attend such an event. Also, you do understand there were other countries that were attending with other issues to address that affected the US.
“the Civil Rights Movement? Who is that? I didn't even know there WAS a movement.”
The Civil Rights Movement is an ongoing movement that encompasses a variety of groups that have been fighting for equality for people of color since the early stages of the movement in the early 20th Century. The ROLE of the movement has changed as the economic and political condition of blacks has changed, but the movement still continues. She frames the reparations grassroots campaign as sort of a another stage of the movement.
“Congressional Black Caucus didn't support Obama- they supported Hillary Clinton. Betrayal?”
Actually you’re absolutely wrong about that- you need to get your facts straight. It was about 50/50. Some members supported Obama while others supported Clinton.
“Obama is supposed to be undoing ALL OF THIS in the form of REPARATIONS in his first 8 months WHILE we are in an economic meltdown, while the country is buggin the hell out that a Black guy is President, and while we also have a few wars going on too… lol…”
You’re way off now. Ms. Klein never suggest that Obama push through reparations by his lonesome or that he even support such an endeavor. Please show me where you read that in her piece. She’s critiquing Obama for ditching the conference and only having a voice about race when it is politically convenient to him.
“She offers ALL of this criticism and without a CONTEXT of what ELSE is happening in the US.”
That’s not true. She clearly is speaking about the economic problems of the US and how they disproportionately affect minorities. She also mentions the stimulus and how it may affect minorities. Is that not “in the context of what else is happening”.
“WHEN THE FUCK WAS THIS WHITE CHICK THE FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. It's really easy sitting her blonde experience to dismiss the challenges he faces as a black man, or better the FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT of AMERIKKKA.”
Is Ms. Klein not allowed to critique the president because she’s not “the first Black President of the United States”? If that’s the case, no one would be able to critique Obama except Obama. Is that what you want? Maybe so. Why is her race such an issue with you? She did not criticize Obama with childish names and false accusations- just facts. Yet you have disparaged her in a very profane way because she provided a perspective with facts? This is the cult mentality that I am talking about.
Naomi Klein has offered criticisms and perspectives on all sorts of people and all sorts of topics, yet because she’s a “white chick”, she can’t offer her criticism of Obama? Maybe you should look at her history and read the books she has written about disaster capitalism (The Shock Doctrine) or the brutal capitalism of Nike (Logos) before you slander her in such a brutal fashion. How about you get a comprehensive feel for some of work before YOU DISMISS her.
“He was a moderate. He was always a moderate. Raging liberals made him their messiah but he never ever said or whispered anywhere.”
Yes he’s a moderate, but he campaigned as a populist liberal- hence his duplicitous nature.
Peace.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5L3M8Pn9KU Piepiepie
Sure Huffpo tend to go after every B.S. headline — I prefer TPM
http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com CPL
Smells like Clive Davis trying to clean up his girl again.
I watched “Being Bobby Brown” too, and figured out that Bobby was only 50% responsible for the phuck up that was their marriage.
Everyone in Newark could point out Whitney on the street when she went down there to buy her smoke.
Clive Davis cleaned her up and presented her as a goody-two shoes back in 1985 and he's doing it twenty years later, so she can turn into a cash cow again.
Oprah co-signing that bullshyt is one reason why I stopped watching her. She only made up with Terry McMillan to come on her show to talk about her divorce from her gay Jamacian husband after Terry clowned her when “Waiting to Exhale” was released.
aleth
U are very rude period
You deal with people with a different opinion than yours by calling them Obama cult supporter. That is a sign of immaturity and an inability to deal with those of different opinions than yours.
dthomas_85
“You deal with people with a different opinion than yours by calling them Obama cult supporter.”
Out of everything that I brought up, that is what you responded to?
What about the piece that I posted- any thoughts? Or what specifically do you disagree with me about over Obama?
dthomas_85
“You deal with people with a different opinion than yours by calling them Obama cult supporter.”
Out of everything that I brought up, that is what you responded to?
What about the piece that I posted- any thoughts? Or what specifically do you disagree with me about over Obama?
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Cheryl Contee aka "Jill Tubman", Baratunde Thurston aka "Jack Turner", rikyrah, Leutisha Stills aka "The Christian Progressive Liberal", B-Serious, Casey Gane-McCalla, Jonathan Pitts-Wiley aka "Marcus Toussaint," Fredric Mitchell, Keith Owens, Anson Asaka, Barbara Moore, Deborah Small, Lisa Coffman, Michael Patton

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