Jack & Jill Politics

Kanye's behavior last night was repulsive. Serena had history of bad judges so you can kinda understand her hissy, KINDA. The saying goes, "when you know better, you do better", this man don't know any betta. Its expected that his savvy momma would have taught him but somewhere, there is a disconnect. He needs some deep-seated counseling AND medication for continuing to act-out like this. Something is bad wrong with this immature behavior; he falls right in the Fool Line with Chris Brown, although he did learn how to treat women (I hope). And Im mad at AA leadership in this country. It's time to reign this loose canon in. Every time he acts out, we talk about him, but nobody has done anything to pull his reigns and get him some help. Same scenario with Serena. She has "poor loser syndrome" and with her resources, she needs to be "on the couch" every chance she gets. We all worried about Michael Jackson's demise and how he went off the deep end. There are many "little MJs" that need addressing in their own right. Somebody please, stop this madness and get these people some help.

Myth, I soooo co-sign about Kanye. I am a fan of Janet and MJ, and because of Kanye's antics (again!!!!) there is very little discussed today about the MJ tribute and Janet's performance. Instead, everybody is talking about this, ahem, "man," Kanye.

AFTERNOON OPEN THREAD IS UP

I thought this link from melissa harris lacewell was a good one --- it is a list of children's books that feature youth of color, but the "subject" of the book is not race.

http://www.publishersweekly.com/blog/660000266/...

Thanks for that! I was in a discussion about this on another board, and now I have some more resources.

remember Caster Semenya, and they were trying to figure out if she's a he or she? Well it turns out she's both:

South African runner Caster Semenya has gone into hiding and is receiving trauma counselling in the wake of claims that gender tests have shown she is a hermaphrodite.

Semenya, 18, won the women's 800 metres at the World Championships in Berlin last month. But her masculine build raised questions about her gender and tests after the race showed her testosterone levels sharply exceeded the average for a woman.

As Semenya withdrew from a 4km cross-country race in Pretoria yesterday, Athletics South Africa spokeswoman Phiwe Mlangeni-Tsholetsane confirmed the athlete was receiving counselling but denied a report that she is suicidal. Mlangeni-Tsholetsane said: "She has not mentioned suicide. She is an extremely strong and determined young woman. But the past few days have been extremely difficult.''

Read the full article here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/sep/13/cas...

I love Drop Dead Diva.

Me too.

The lady who plays Jane is great. I could do a little without the whole Grayson bit though. I can never get past the fact that Grayson is obviously an intelligent guy, but "Deb" was a total ditz. One of my dating pet peeves, ya gotta be at least of average intelligence to carry on a convo with me. I have a friend who I love to death, but that girl is so ditzy it's not even funny. I'm thinking she has gotta be some type if "idiot savant" cause I don't know who she made it through college (I think she has a photographic memory). Anyway, she was dating this guy who was in medical school, and was a pretty smart guy. We went to dinner once, and I tell ya I don't know what going on with her and him, but I just couldn't fathom what the hell they talked about (maybe they didn't talk much though...)

Storylines are good but Maragret Cho seems to be on depressants. She is not funny at all.

I hear you girl! That is one of my favorite new shows. Thank God for TIVO!

Yes, so do I.

Last night's episode was great

Here's a great column by David Sirota on the tone of rightwing protests. He received a death threat over the weekend after calling out these people for their racism.


http://www.openleft.com/diary/15084/on-racism-d...

I love Army Wives....

can't believe Chase was TORTURED..

and Joan is shipping out soon..broke my heart when she cried at the end.

I didn't even think about him being tortured, until his wife said it.

Joan and her little drop of chocolate is very touching...and I'm sure a lot of mothers can relate

The brotha getting killed was just sad.

I love this show as well.

as far as Kanye goes..

I guess we now know it was his mother that kept him 'in line', because he's been off the rails since she died.

I said I'd give him 2 years before I would come down hard on him...has it been 2 years since his mother died?

Folks that need to get at Kanye:

1. Taylor Swift

2. Beyonce - Ya'll know when she was gave Taylor her time, she was thinking, "After this if over, Imma whoop Kanye's ass! Making me give up my shine! Bitchass n*gga!"

3. Janet Jackson - cuz he took away from her brother's tribute

4. Amber Rose - His date. Thanks to him getting kicked out, she couldn't show off her outfit.


Feel free to add to the list.

Hell, he was halfway off the rails when she was ALIVE

I guess we now know it was his mother that kept him 'in line', because he's been off the rails since she died.

I've thought that for the longest. His mom died in November of 2007.

I don't think it's been 2 years quite yet.

I think it's funny that the same people crying for Kanye's head for interrupting Taylor Swift think it's "no big deal" for Wilson to interrupt Obama.

And I AGREE with Kanye; Taylor Swift should NOT have won that award, but to snatch the mic from a little girl? That was wrong.

In reality, Gwen Verdon and Bob Fosse should've gotten the award: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yhlbni8C3XI

I think it's funny that the same people crying for Kanye's head for interrupting Taylor Swift think it's "no big deal" for Wilson to interrupt Obama.

i hear you.

i didn't see the awards; not into that kind of music... definitely not into videos anymore... but hey, i'm 44.

i'm cutting kanye lots of slack. he's grieving! he may not be doing it in the way polite people would like to see him do it, but he's grieving nonetheless. so he snatched a mic from somebody? --i'm sure she'll get over it! it'd be different if he then took the mic and slogged it upside her head. i have two sons who are 21 and 17. if i were to die suddenly (god forbid), they would likely be more than a little upset. we are very close. moms and sons share a special, special bond. i don't put a time period on grief. 2 years, 2 months, 2 weeks...??? kanye is HURTING. it's obvious. folks need to get off of kanye's back!!

i'm sending him lots of positive energy. hope he has good friends and extended family who can help him cope.

I'm cutting Kanye some slack because I would be lying if I said I gave a damn. White boys, notably Eminem, show their asses at these shows all the time, and they are applauded. It was just a few years ago that these same people awarded Eminem video of the year I believe for ridiculing Michael Jackson with his hair on fire while frolicking with little boys in a bed, but last night they were crying crockodile tears. Yes, Kanye showed his ass, but I'm not taking part in any lynching of him. This is not my fight.

Bull. If that was Eminem GETTING the award, do you REALLY THINK Kanye woulda walked his punk ass up there and try to take the mic out of Eminem's hand?? How 'bout Kanye trying to take the mic out of ANY MAN'S hand? I doubt it.

I keep tellin' folk . . . y'all need to get off Kanye's d____. He might be a talented musician, but he ain't no warrior or activist like Malcolm or Martin or Coretta or Sojourner as folk have tried to carry him throughout the duration of his 15 minutes of fame. I said this when Kanye said what he said about Bush during the Katrina fiasco, and I say it again now: Kanye. Is. ONLY. ONLY. About. Kanye. He likes to throw temper tantrums and fits and wants everybody to pay him attention like the diva/quasi-female he wants to be. Y'all betta recognize . . .

That's a good point, if Eminem had done that, everyone would just be laughing and saying 'Oh that's Em!' I've seen people posting that this is the END of Kanye's career! Really? And of course the rednecks took to Twitter calling him a 'stupid n*gger'. Taylor will be fine.

I have a different take, Shazza. I think if some white guy (OK, let's use Eminem since that's the name being thrown aroud a lot as the example today -- LOL).....if that were Eminem that did to some young black female singer what Kanye did to Taylor, the same folk defending Kanye would have been hollaring racism. Puh-leeze. With all due respect my people, we cannot have it BOTH ways.

Wrong is wrong. Sorry, folks . . .

I'm cutting Kanye some slack because I would be lying if I said I gave a damn.

haha, and then there's that aspect as well. not really all that important when u look at the big picture.

I don't cut Kanye ANY slack. There is no excuse for bad behavior. If Kanye was grieving that much he should have stayed his ass at home. I don't tolerate "bad behavior b/c of grieving" from family members, not going to tolerate from somebody whose assholery has been going on since before his mom died.

Kanye was drinking last night during the VMAs, I saw two pics, one from the red carpet when he had an almost full bottle of Henn, and another I'm guessing after the fact when he was all sweaty and more than half of the bottle was gone. If he's in THAT much turmoil, he needs to go to rehab and counseling. There's no excuse for a grown ass man to be acting the way he acted last night.

and i thought i ran a tight ship?!? whew! lol

Bad behavior is bad behavior; no argument there.

I guess I feel like "where does it end?" And I don't think "as long as it takes" is an acceptable answer. That could be ten years from now, or twenty or never. You can grieve as long as you like; but you just can't act shitty towards people and say "Oh well, I'm grieving so I have the right to act a fool." This really has nothing do to with Taylor Swift; it could have been that girl who plays True Jackson VP or Kristinia DeBarge or anyone. Janet Jackson is grieving too; you don't see her rushing up on the stage, snatching Beyonce's mic and saying "Bitch sit yo ass down for talking smack about my family."

Hey, it's been nearly 5 years for me and I still haven't gotten over it. I've heard of Taylor but never heard her music and in the end, who really cares? I heard Jack Black came out and prayed to Satan but no one had a problem with that.
And that bottle of Henny Kanye was toting around didn't help either.

hi shazza. please know that love and life are eternal.

and yeah, alcohol and grieving just don't mix.

Hi, caligirl, thank you for that.

Just curious, have you ever seen Taylor's video?

I apologize for not putting up an Evening Thread before I went out last night. Totally spaced on the VMA's, and the Michael tribute.

The Michael Jackson tribute excuse for falling down on the job works only for so long. Just sayin'. ; )

Yes, Shame on you! :o)

BEYOND PARODY:

Have I got this straight? Yesterday there was a March of old, angry, white people shouting "get offa your own lawn" at the Black Guy in the White House. They greeted their own speakers and supporters with a ritualized chant of "YOU LIE?" How long before they figure out this is not an effective form of call and response?

aimai
http://nomoremister.blogspot.com/

As discussed...they aren't the sharpest group of folks.

Dr. Alveda King Attacks Planned Parenthood: Unlike her uncle, Dr. Martin Luther King, Dr. Alevda King is not known for a socially progressive stance. Alveda is attacking a woman's right to choose, claiming that there are racial factors in who gets an abortion at Planned Parenthood. There can be no doubt about the racist intentions of Margaret Sanger, Planned Parenthoods founder, however; today the approach is quite different.

Planned Parenthood may have more locations in neighbourhoods that are largely populated by people of color, however; that is where the largest need arises. Opponents of Planned Parenthood often fail to acknowledge, that abortion is one of the many services that this organization offers. For many women, it is their only opportunity to access affordable health care. Planned Parenthood is not running into the street chasing women down and forcing them to have abortions.

There's this massive conspiracy amongst evangelicals that because PP was founded by Sanger, friend of eugenicists, PP want to eliminate Blacks in this country--Black genocide--through abortions. Dr. King is a part of a group, Maafa 21, who instead of working to reduce the need for abortions in the US, they choose to resort to scaring Black people that PP trying to kill all the Blacks.

Here is the connection: American Eugenicists --> Hitler and exterminating Jews --> Sanger, founder of PP and friend of eugenicists --> PP disproportionately in minority neighborhoods. Therefore, PP = Hitler and eugenicists and supporters of PP = supporters of Hitler. That's their logic.

I hadn't known much about Sanger but after reading this article,"Birth Control or Race Control? Sanger and the Negro Project," #28, Fall 2001, I don't know if she is as racist as her reputation seems to indicate.

I watched this video that Maafa 21 put out and one of the final comments in the video was that without slavery, eugenics, abortion, Hitler, and Planned Parenthood would not have existed. It follows then that White people of European descent have contributed to some of the most horrific crimes against humanity throughout the history of the modern world.

Here's another article about the topic. My pastor is all over this, in all his lunacy.

Let me be clear, I am by no means a Sanger apologist. Abortion rights is just not my issue. I don't anticipate Roe v Wade will ever be overturned because it's too powerful of a political cudgel for the right wing to give up.

I'm not seeing how she's blaming Planned Parenthood for Black people sucking at preventing unwanted pregnancies. If someone wants an abortion, it's not Planned Parenthood's job to try to talk them out of it. Most people don't take getting an abortion lightly. I'd rather someone get an abortion than have a kid they can't provide for, leave the kid in the dumpster, or add another kid to the foster-care/orphanage system. If she's willing to pay for those womens health care during the pregnancy and then take care of the kids for the rest of their lives then she can complain all she wants.

STOP MAKING SENSE!

I see Kanye made BIG CNN Headlines. I caught this from Taylor Swift, who is 19 (didn't know that).

http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/TV/09/14/mtv.mu...

"I don't know the man; I've never met him. I don't want to start nothing."

Totally unrelated - but check THIS shit out.

Too busy watching football to notice the VMAs even being on...

What was up with that announcer cracking on Whoopi Golberg?

Now when Toby Keith or Trace Adkins walks on stage and snatches the mic from Kanye, I don't wanna hear sheeeitt.

And I don't want to hear shit when Kanye's and Jay-Z's security beat the shit out of Toby Keith and Trace Adkins, except laughter, because you know that what be some funny shit.

Why not - it's all about rude behavior?

And you know neither one of those good ole' boys is going to snatch no mic from Kanye, 'cuz the fucker is CRAZY and they know it.

Bill Clinton said something so true: as soon as President Obama signs a health care bill his numbers will go back up. The day he signs a financial reform package; his numbers will go up.

And we won't hear boo about it from the media: he has a good weak and what's the headline at politico: Who's afraid of Barack Obama?

You just have to laugh. The President and his team are pretty much standing alone and the only backup they have is in the House leadership; the senate's ready to sell them out in a heart beat. And you can't tell me it's not because some of those folks want to be in the position the President, formerly a junior senator, is now in.

Because people are quick to criticize Obama, but slow to give him kudos or admit they were wrong. A perfect example is the accusation that Obama didn't meet with progressives. After it was proven to be false --- *crickets*

*coughcoughDailyKoscoughcough*

Congress won’t be voting on a health care proposal this week, but the House evidently will be voting to admonish Representative Joe Wilson of South Carolina for heckling President Obama during last week’s Congressional address.

With the South Carolina Republican’s declaration on Sunday that he would not apologize on the House floor, Democrats prepared to introduce a resolution formally holding Mr. Wilson in violation of House rules. A vote is likely Tuesday.

House Prepares for a Vote on Rebuking Wilson

Good. Get that loudmouth sumbitch.

Did you see how defiant he has become about apologizing on the House floor? He isn't sorry one bit and he's letting everyone know.

Get him!

President Obama will head to Wall Street on Monday to try to breathe new life into efforts to overhaul the financial regulatory system, an undertaking he has said is essential to halting the abuses and failures that led to the current crisis.

While the health-care debate has raged nationwide throughout the summer, financial reform virtually vanished from the public radar, even as an army of lobbyists worked on Capitol Hill to reshape the president's agenda.

In New York, Obama will try to retake the initiative, capping other recent efforts in which top government officials have emphasized improvements in the economy and made the case anew for rewriting the nation's financial rulebook. He will urge members of the financial community "to take responsibility, not only to support reforming the regulatory system but also to avoid a return to the practices on Wall Street that led us to the financial crisis," an administration official said Sunday.

Obama Turns Efforts To Financial Changes

Will someone please kick Kanye West in his ass!..Otherwise Michael rules. The trailer for "THIS IS IT" is FAB! and Janet was Great also!

Can't wait to see it!

Have a Great Day

Law enforcers on the west coast of the US and in the middle states straddled by the foothills of the Appalachian mountains are reporting a common trend. It is boom time for marijuana cultivation, and much of the incentive they say is to beat the recession.

So far this year, police in parts of the country where cannabis is traditionally grown have chopped down plants with a street value of $12bn. The core growing area is in California, Washington and Oregon to the west, but the Appalachian states of Kentucky, Tennessee and West Virginia are also witnessing an explosion.

More than 600,000 cannabis plants have been cut and burned in those states this summer, reversing a previous decline in production brought about by stringent law enforcement. It is not only the quantity of crop that is on the rise, the nature of the growers is also changing.

Americans Grow Cannabis to Beat the Recession

---

OK, I understanding the need to grow part, but who is buying?

I think they are growing it for their own use so they don't have to buy it.

I'm sure that stuff gets shipped across the country or exported overseas for the growers' profits. The same folks buying herb before the recession are buying afterwards. Now, imagine that stuff taxed...

There's still plenty of alchohol and tobacco in stores, so the thought of a recession curbing mary jane use is laughable.

"puff, puff, pass...fool!"

Yoo hoo, Negro liberals!!!! One of your white liberal saviors, Gavin Newsom, was just on Morning Joe and announced he would NOT support healthcare reform if it raised taxes. That's righ, this "principled" shiny white man took the politically convenient position that any conservative would take who was running for Governor. This comes on the heels of one of your other white liberal saviors, less shiny and more fat, Ed Schultz playing the part of a fiscal conservative on Saturday. The past month he's been screaming, "we MUST have a public option!". He turned his fat ass on a dime now screaming, "how can we afford this?!"

Why are these white Liberals doing the job of conservatives? How the fuck can they criticize the President's poor selling of healhcare reform when almost immediately after his magnificant speech, they practically started going from person to person saying, "he's lying about how he's going to pay for it...we really can't afford it without raising taxes."

oh yeah, and mofo should be spending his time figuring out how to get around Prop 13, since that is what bankrupted his state.

Listening to him you would think Democratic tax increases bankrupted
the state and now health care would send it into the Pacific.

In reality, if we did have to increase taxes to pay for healthcare, it
probably would be an increase of less than $200 over a ten year
period. That is nothing.

done with him on ' character ' issues - man is a straight up dog. did what Ensign did, but married his hoochie...been polishing her up and everything....

What about when he was dating the 19 year year old and photogs caught them drinking. He's got a mess of skeletons.

After he got rid of his first wife the lingerie model/ADA with bad skin who is now a FOX reporter.

I thought his wife cheated? He cheated too? And he's running for
Governor? From San Francisco?

if she did cheat, it wasn't with one of his FRIENDS.

gavin messed around with the wife of the man who backed him when nobody knew his ass or gave a shit.

Damn!!!! I would be too ashamed to run for public office again!

Rumor is she cheated with Dan Abrams when he was trying to get her a gig at MSNBC.

What?!!!!!!!!!!!

It was the big news going around the Marina (District of SF) when I lived there. Kimberly was flying back and forth between New York and SF trying to get a gig at MSNBC, then she stopped flying back, then divorce. During her time in New York she was spending more and more time with Dan and became a regular commentator on his show. She was horrible, but that's not the point. Whatever happened during that time (the affair) is rumored to have caused the divorce.

That said Gavin is not innocent. There are many girls in the Marina and multiple waitresses at the same bar (Matrix) that could tell you stories of hooking up with him.

I did a quick google search and found a few pics of Kim/Dan together:

http://www.patrickmcmullan.com/site/search.aspx...

http://thecablegame.blogspot.com/2005/08/msnbc-...

It was like a real life soap opera! How did he recover politically?

That's the thing about San Francisco, no one really cares. He was a partier, Willie Brown was a partier. As long as the city has money and embraces the gays, everything is cool.

At his lowest point he went through the motions of going to rehab He showed up to some emergency situation drunk with the 19 year old in tow. I think it was after the guy got mulled by the tiger at the zoo. This was around the same time he admitted the affair so he was able to lump that into the rehab as well.

But as much as the locals forgive him for anything, I don't think his reputation is gonna play well on the national stage

Gasp! What?

Yep...story below.

never liked gavin newsom. he will NOT be getting this california resident's vote!!!

i'm in southern cal, but starting to see his bumperstickers popping up in my area. yuck!!!

Gavin did that? That's unfortunate, I liked him.

First of all, I haven't read or heard exactly what Newsom and Schultz said, and I'll reserve judgement until I do. Secondly..."going from one to the other"? When did Newsom and Schultz become the totality of "liberals"?

Sometimes it's embarrassing to read some of the stupid shit you say!
I'm commenting on what I heard them say. Not what I thought you
would think. And who said they were the totality? Ed Schultz and
Gavin Newsom have been heralded by some on this site as voices of
reason and principled liberals. I'm just demonstrating that they are
NOT!

"Why are these white Liberals doing the job of conservatives? How the fuck can they criticize the President's poor selling of healhcare reform when almost immediately after his magnificant speech, they practically started going from person to person saying, "he's lying about how he's going to pay for it."

That clearly gives the impression that you're generalizing. I'm sure you're not commenting on anything with any concern about what I think, LOL. I'm just saying that I'll reserve judgment because you're dishonest. I don't think that's unreasonable.

Your mother! And I don't give a damn how salty anyone gets by that
comment; when a bitch who doesn't know me calls me dishonest that's
what the fuck s/he gets.

"Your mother!". As I said, you are entertaining. I'm not going to get salty over something that juvenile. I know enough from what I've seen here to know you're dishonest.

You're dishonest.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/#32839042

That's the video from Newsom's appearance on Morning Joe. You failed to mention at least a couple of things. First of all, the conversation took place almost entirely within the context of the public option, and secondly, Newsom spent a lot of his time talking about how SF has been able to implement its own version of the public option without raising taxes, and trying to make the point that it can be done on a national scale without raising taxes.

Now, Newsom did allow himself to be painted in a corner toward the end there when he said that he's not for raising taxes in order to fund healthcare reform rather than healthcare reform with the public option. He answered Scar's question without qualifying it, and he also didn't call Scar on talking about a 5.1% tax increase to help pay for "healthcare reform" (a 5.1% tax on who? the wealthy, or the middle class?) and saying "Nancy's talked about it...the President's talked about it". I don't know about Pelosi, but I haven't heard the President talk about a middle-class tax increase to pay for reform, and Scar gave the impression that he was talking about a tax increase on the middle class. But, what it really comes down to is the fact that Newsom's position is basically the same as the President's.

I couldn't find anything on Ed Schultz saying "how are we going to afford this", but I did run across a few mentions of him interviewing Amy Klobuchar this past Saturday. I wouldn't be surprised if he asked her that question after she said something about the country not being able to afford the PO, and I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he asked that question as a challenge to her.I noticed that you failed to provide any context for that question, just as you failed to provide context for Newsom's statement.

In any case, here's Schultz taking about the public option...yesterday. Doesn't sound as if he's backed off on it to me:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/3284800...

Say it ain't so NMP......Ed Schultz?

Very interesting.

I read Frank Rich's piece over the weekend....the one where he basically said Obama squandered the summer.

Interestingly enough....many(liberals, conservatives, even some here on JJP) complain that the President is too "overexposed" (ie numerous press conferences, prime-time specials) but then bitch when he hasn't said enough, at least according to them. And now this?

Did the corporate sponsors of the MSM pass out some talking point/scripts after the speech last week.....sure smells like it to me.

I notice this as well. Some people need to make up their minds.

It doesn't surprise me in the least. I keep a 3rd eye on white
liberals, and I can see clearly they have an agenda that's not in the
interest of this President nor Black folks generally. Whenever the
President makes inroades they come up with something else to criticize.

You need to keep 4 and 5 and 6 eyes on white liberals. I trust them LESS than white conservatives.

And you're smart to do so! I tell people all the time I'd rather deal with an out-and-out racist rather than a white liberal. At least I know up front what the racist thinks of me.

If "we" can afford the Pentagon spending an average of $1.6 billion per day, "we" can "afford" health care. Oddly, no one complains about Pentagon spending or paying a mercenary $20,000 a month in Iraq,

The Pentagon is trying to cut down its budget, it's Congress giving them problems because states don't want to give up those pet projects because it means people in their states lose jobs. The best way to cut THAT budget is to end at least one of the wars.

Why is it that the left always runs to the Pentagon to cut money for their pet projects?

Why is it that the right would rather vote for every tax cut for the super rich, but will not even adequately fund care for veterans, even when some are vets themselves? (ie John McCain and "Joe" WIlson)

Oh, I forgot....the support for healthcare, education, and the welfare of veterans only comes in campaign slogans and speeches, but not in actual legislative votes, and then they act outraged when something as horrible as Walter Reed is brought to the spotlight.

Because the Pentagon is so bold, its appropriation is stated as simply a percentage of the GDP. Its former Secretary, Rumsfeld admits to losing $2.3 trillion, that year and others the Pentagon could not pass audit but budgets and supplemental budgets continue to go through.

To me, its simple, if the Pentagon doesn't know where its money is going nor can pass an audit, its time to reduce its budget.

We've cut defense after every major conflict we've been involved in, only to have to throw more money into DoD at the start of the next conflict.

And you're basically suggesting cutting them-again, as they've already been told to make more cuts than the entire government!-in the middle of a war.

Does that make any sense at all?

Does it make sense to pay a mercenary in Iraq $20,000 a month?

I suppose that, sitting here in the relative comfort of the United States, it's easy to say that it doesn't make sense.

Did make sense to invade a country that was not a threat to us?

How many times are we going to have this argument?

You don't see the point of OIF. I know that.

I saw the point. You know that.

No, D. What IS the point of Operation Iraqi Freedom?

Iraqi freedom? From?

I don't think you see the incongruity of all that.

duplicate

Numbers 3,4,5 didn't work out to well either.Number 6 so 4600 lives were worth it so cheney could secure the oil fields for his buddies.Number 7 the only think we delivered was ethnic cleansing.Number 8 remains o be seen.

The stated military objectives of OIF are below. #2, as we know, did not work out so well. Results on #3 are, in fairness, mixed.

1. End the regime of Saddam Hussein.
2. Eliminate Iraq's weapons of mass destruction.
3. Capture or drive out terrorists.
4. Collect intelligence on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction activity.
5. Secure Iraq's oil fields.
6. Deliver humanitarian relief and end sanctions.
7. Help Iraq achieve representative self-government and ensure its territorial integrity.

to me it's not so much cutting defense spending as it is taking care of the people who have been funding it in the past and continue to now. the tax payer!!! without proper health care , no taxpayer, no tax money, no funds for defense. richest and most powerful nation on earth and we can't seem to insure that our old folk can both afford their medicine and eat at the same time.

That almost sounds like a tea party argument. Except...

most powerful nation on earth...

...and just how do you think we became that?

The Admiral at Pearl harbor lost his nerve when he didn't find the carriers. The Nazi's effort to interdict the sea lanes and prevent the resupply of England and the USSR failed..

like i said it's not about cutting defense, it's about taking care of the folks who have made it possible to stay that powerful, the older taxpayer, the men and women who served our country during the wars we have been involved in. keep the defense, add the health care. if that means some tax increase, so be it. the insurance nation (yeah, nation) only cares about the dollar and benefits continue to decrease as premiums increase even while the economy faulters. the va doesn't give proper care to our veterans for lack of funding. why do we show so little respect for the quality of life for our aging community.

Morphus suggests that if we can drum up phony wars that put millions of Iraqi lives at risk, we can certainly afford to spend less money to save lives in the US with more widely available healthcare. It's about priorities.

It's also a fact that the Defense Dept. WANTS to cut some wasteful programs but Congress is not cooperating.

And by the way, if we take all entitlement programs out of the candidate list for program cuts, the only budget left is essentially defense spending.

http://www.infoplease.com/cig/economics/governm...

Don't get me wrong, there's a couple of DoD's projects that I'm all for doing away with (the Army's FCS program being a big one). And I also understand why Congress is fighting some of the cuts on different programs (hint: it's not all because of defense contributions to their coffers!!).

I'm just trying to understand the logic that makes DoD the first target. National defense is, by nature, expensive...unless you're on this list.

I don't quite understand why you don't see the logic here. Aren't the waste of the Iraq war and the recent DoD budget battles (in which the DoD is requesting cuts) weighty enough reason to explain why defense is sometimes near the top of the list these days?

( http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D99OUS0... )

So read the times and there is your answer. If you want to look back into history a little more, I think the answer is related to how over the decades of the 20th century the military morphed into something far beyond defense. A good read on this is Andrew Bacevich's "The New American Militarism, How Americans are Seduced by War".

I also think of Dr. King's criticism of our nation's militarism.

Or turn this around and ask yourself where else to cut. Social Security? Medicare? That is even more of a political no-go than DoD. Even the hardtack (geriatric crackers) are protesting, "Don't touch my Medicare". The interest on the Bush years of debt is huge but we can't defer payments on it. So where else among discretionary funds can we find room to cut?

I disagreed with the F-22 cuts, for no other reason than it made no sense to me to cut the jobs that were associated with it now.

And I'm well aware of the history of the military-industrial complex, from both my time in uniform and professional career.

I've had more than a few arguments over that quote before...

Going after SS/Medicare is a hard choice to make. I won't say what I'd do in this forum, but at some point, we may not have a choice.

Please explain how a 3% increase in Defense spending is a cut in defense spending.

If you knew why there was an increase in the '10 defense budget, you wouldn't be asking that.

I'll bite, I's just don' know nothin' pleaze educait me.

The increase is because the costs of OIF and Afghnistan are included.

A little less snark and a little more detail are in order. D is correct in saying that the increase in the DoD budget is because the expenditures were brought into the budget in real time not as supplementary allocations as done in the Bush administration. It is another reason the deficit shot up so fast

maybe it's because of the amount of waste involved with pentagon spending.

And the right wants to cut social programs to fund their pet projects.

Prisoners may not be able to vote, but their U.S. Census population count is being used to bolster the political power in rural areas where prisons are located.

On April 1, 2010, the Census Bureau will conduct its 24th decennial count of the U.S. population. Data from Census counts is used to allocate federal funds each year and to determine the number of seats each state has in the House of Representatives. Census data also helps determine district boundaries based on population size, which can change a state’s political demographics.

In addition to individual homes, the Census counts people in a variety of housing situations, including college dormitories, nursing homes, hospitals and prisons. They are counted as members of the community where their residence is located, even if their original home is elsewhere.

The problem, according to Peter Wagner, executive director of the Prison Policy Initiative, a Massachusetts-based group, is that unlike students and hospital patients, prisoners cannot vote. The misrepresentation of districts by Census counts, he argues, can lead to inaccurate population swings and gerrymandering.

There are more than 2 million prisoners in federal, state and local institutions, many of which are located in rural areas. As a result of declines in farming and mining, these areas often look to prisons to boost their economies. Prisoners are, in effect, bolstering the constituency of representatives they can’t vote for and don’t necessarily support. This method of counting also artificially decreases the populations of urban areas-- where most prisoners are from and will eventually return to – and limits city, state and federal representation.

Census Prisoner Count Skews Political Representation

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This creative population counting also transfers federal $$$ to rural areas with prisoners as crop substitution.

What I think that no one really considers is that Black are over represented in the penal system and therefore their denial of the right to vote amounts to limiting the influence of Black population in politics. Imagine if all of those prisoners had a say in how the US is governed. When someone goes to prison we have a desire to lock them up and throw away the key forgetting that they can still have an influence on the outside world.

They gave up their say when they committed whatever crime landed them in prison in the first place.

Yeah, with all those high unemployment numbers they got to go somewhere. Like to prison-factories to earn cents on the dollar making fortune 500 companies products.

Okay, and.......?

I'm sorry, but if you do something to land yourself in prison, you deserve just about whatever happens.

Now, once you're out, I don't have a problem with your reintegration into society, including some restoration of rights.

But while you're there? It's meant to be a punishment.

Sen. Webb recently had a hearing on the miracle of increasing prison incarceration as crime rates are dropping. Testimony was given and reports from DOJ shows blacks males in particular and other minorities receive higher sentences for smaller crimes.

There is consensual industry-wide that the justice system is harsher in punishment of AAs. As states budgets fall, suddenly there is a change of heart in maintaining high prison populations. If it was about public safety, why are states releasing prisoners by the thousands?

"I'm sorry, but if you do something to land yourself in prison, you deserve just about whatever happens.:

I'm sorry, but if you do something to land yourself in prison, you Do NOT 'deserve' just about whatever happens.

You deserve to be treated like a human being to pay your debt to society. Incarceration is the punishment, your being removed from society is the punishment,loss of liberty & the pursuit of happiness is the punishment not just about whatever happens. i.e. rape/physical abuse

The "just about" stops at abuse.

Yes, they did give up their say. The problem is, their "say" hasn't been nullified, but added to some other peoples' "say".

Prisoners can have a say in politics: stop committing crimes, most of which are committed against us.

You are on it. There is resistance in many states against voter rights restoration,

You are assuming that the justice system is fair to begin with. Many of those serving time are there because they are either of color, poor or both. It is not as simple as stop committing crimes. We also know that certain laws are designed to specifically trap people of color. Don't give me that holier than thou routine about stop committing crimes.

I would never make the assumption that the justice system is fair.

Good Morning.Your Monday Wake up Cut.Enjoy
Brazilian Love Affair - George Duke (Vinyl 12") 1980
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK5Bhb6KGq8

thanks dj

Good one, again!

Thanks DJ.