I know I may travel in black circles a lot, black church, black college alumni functions, involvement with young black achievers organizations, raised in a black neighborhood, etc. etc.

So maybe that has given me a skewed view in some way but, I just know so many black men that love and adore black woman. I mean I admit, there is also no shortage of examples of black men who disrespect and do no honor black woman.

But, a lot of those same men disrespect and do not honor woman period…

I know I may travel in black circles a lot, black church, black college alumni functions, involvement with young black achievers organizations, raised in a black neighborhood, etc. etc.

So maybe that has given me a skewed view in some way but, I just know so many black men that love and adore black woman. I mean I admit, there is also no shortage of examples of black men who disrespect and do no honor black woman.

But, a lot of those same men disrespect and do not honor woman period…

I am very sorry that what I said stung you. That was definitely not my intention but wholeheartedly acknowledge the impact on you. It was my intention to express that despite what positive experiences certain Black men (at least the one's “in question,” and the one's I talked about specifically related to Match . com,) are choosing to accept racist ideas and even perpetuate stereotypes about Black women despite having really positive experiences with Black women too.

Again, I apologize for hurting you but I do hope that someone who has perhaps chosen to prefer all races of women (including Latinas) BUT Black read what I wrote- and maybe that provoked critical thought.

I'm not trying to pimp your pain. I was trying to advocate for what I believe is right and call out what I believe is decisively ignorant behavior. In my opinion, you cannot love your Black mother, aunts, and sisters and then ACTIVELY dismiss other Black women for being Black. It's dead wrong.

I hate that you are hurt. I hate that my friend is hurt. I can be a ferocious advocate. Next time, I'll tone it down.

Your last line,

“Black men have had the direct experience of being raised by loving Black women, and still they choose others.”

Stung.

As a young black girl, must I constantly be reminded that I am completely undesirable.

Thank You.

I try to be as honest as possible.

R504

My golf instructor, a black man, told me I was going to have a problem finding a suitable partner because I hold 2 graduate degrees. He then proceeded to tell me how is similarily educated sister didn't get married until her late 40s.

I have no problem saying that I prefer black men. People are attracted to who they are attracted to. However, I also am becoming more open to others. Anymore, having a drama free, positive relationship is my top priority.

Please explain “AA” males and females. And what you meant by “give the brothers a miss”. Please excuse my ignorance here.

But, I tend to disagree with you feeling we as a race do not value marriage enough. I believe as a race, there are fewer races who DO respect it as much as do Blacks. What I Do tend to believe is just as the moral fiber of our respective and collective communities has eroded, so does the perception that we do not value the sanctity of marriage. That degenerating moral fiber spans across the board to practically all things within the family. Up to and including us being afraid of our own children.
I think it an expansive idea to try men of ALL races, if possible; or at least not limit oneself to just one race.

~R504~

To clarify what I meant by what my daughter knows; the issue [not herself]over which she has not control and as a result is living her life to the fullest:

She, [in keeping with the topic of this conversation] as with many, and especially black women, understands that finding a mate, especially given her credentials, is no easy feat these days. The “no control” of what I spoke has more to do with the reality of the situation a dynamic over which no one has any control…we don't control demographics nor the considerable shortage of males whom she would consider on her level. For black women, this is nothing particularly new; it has simply become more of reality over the decades, especially given the degree with which females have overtaken males in college education. That is what I meant by a dynamic over which she, nor anyone else, has any control.

She is very outgoing and gregarious; friendly, helpful, smart, intelligent and yes.. even quite pretty. She is, I must hasten to add, a social butterfly as well. By living her life to the fullest, I meant that she is not waiting for the “right one” to appear… she's just living and enjoying her life to the fullest. I cannot be much clearer than that. All her good qualities is [still] no guarantee of finding an appropriate male for a spouse and potential father for any children she may have.

She/we live in NYC where there is a true diversity of all races — and she is not in search particularly, of a black man. She actually dates outside her race. And… make no mistake, she wants a family and a husband.. not necessarily in that order. She'd like the husband first. It's just that she's been persuing her education and tells me she just hasn't come across anyone with whom she knows anything serious will arise basically because the ones she has dated lack what she requires. Nothing against them, it's simply that she was reared to not settle for what she doesn't want, and just to be able to say that she “has a boyfriend.”

She has traveled extensively, to all the continents except for Antarctica, all before 30 years of age; is well-read and compassionate. She's hardly what I'd consider “traditional”, or a shrinking violet, and has no problem with being the initiator; however, she like many women [myself included] do become weary of making all the moves where men are concerned.

A woman's education should not be a deterrent for men being more assertive; and that is something that she and I both agree upon — and there is 26 years between us. She is definitely not passive. If you got that impression from my previous communique, you may've misread or misunderstood me. Or, maybe it was simply my miscommunication via this medium.

In any event, the topic of this peaked my attention because it is not an abberation — it's quite real. Many women ARE opting out of marriage/children, and frankly I've always been of the opinion that it is better to not become involved in such a serious undertaking as marriage and children simply because that is what is expected – especially of women.

Thank you again for your response. I hope I have satifactorily responded.

~Robin504~

I'm interested in your line of “she knows this, and is living her life to the very fullest despite this issue over which she knows she has no control.”

Why does she have “no control?” Because of the small pool of “quality black men?” Is it more where she lives? Does she engage others in conversation or attempt to put herself in social situations?

Also, is she willing to engage men in conversation and even “make the first move,” so to speak? Some women are more traditional, to be sure, but love and relationships are a two way street, so there's no sense in being overly passive.

I learned real quick that I could I either sit at home on Friday night, moaning and groaning about my single status, or I could give that White guy a chance to take me out and get to know me. Some were great guys and some where assholes. Some were flings and some were long term relationships (like the one I'm in now).

When it all comes down to it, I just want to get to know a guy and see where it goes. I don't want to miss out on Mr. (Almost) Wonderful because he doesn't look the way I thought he should.

I will be honest with you, I do not wish for my daughters to be alone when they become adults but, then again I do not wish for them to date anything but a black man. Call it selfish or even racist on my part but, I certainly hope they have options that include a variety or good, hard working black men to choose from.

I myself do not believe that there is any kind of mass exodus of black men leaving black woman for white woman or other races. I can only base that on my experiences, attending an HBCU, where although there was more woman to men but, still a majority of those woman had many good, educated black men to choose from. Many of those woman are married now to many of these very same men.

Don't know all I know is it just doesn't seem as bad as all of that but, what can I say I was married to my wife 2 weeks after graduating college(lol)…

However, I knew by the time I was about 16 that I wasn't attractive to the young heterosexual black men in high school and even in college. The ones who were equal in education and smarts were too busy trying to game the white women and girls. After a while, I knew this wasn't my problem.

Certain younger black men seem to be attracted to me, however. Since I am in my mid-fifties, I'd rather be with a (any color/culture) man who is at least ten years younger and is a college graduate and careerwise. Otherwise, I tend to think I am raising the guy. No man after the age of 30 should be raised.

I'm like the still lovely Michelle Pfeiffer, I hate the word, 'cougar'. Most of the time, I am not looking for anybody…until somebody suddenly pops up.

Forgive me, I am obviously tone deaf on this issue and simply do not understand the angst that I reading. From my vantage point, yes, there are Black women who went into the corporate or other sectors and shattered the glass ceiling. While breaking the ceiling, time passed and during its course some of these women made decisions to remain single.

These sistahs are CEO-ready, POTUS-ready, Fortune500-ready, and any other top of the pyramid position-ready. They operate from places in this society where they wield incredible POWER and yet defy “Power corrupts”. Sistahs of this stature gives real meaning to When and Where I Enter: The Impact of Black Women on Race and Sex in America . That's not a bad thing, is it?

Speaking of other studies on same topic using POC, IIRC Howard Univ. conducted a similar study several years ago, if I can find it, I'll post later.

If it was not because of the mentioned “closeness”, those well educated ladies wouldn't have no difficulties in marrying people from around the world, after all educated people direct or indirectly contacts with people from all over the world nowadays.

But the worst thing in this “lack of openness” is that it is centered on myths of What is BLACK.

The fact that most afro-american men lag behind on education IS not the Main reason, WHY marry only those who looks like you only with skin shade as reference?

I saw a documentary called…Soulmate (?) about this very subject. One of the women featured was a 44 year old virgin waiting for an AA Mr. Right. It was as depressing as this story is, but was made by an AA female.

As a race, I don't feel that we value or respect marriage enough. I also think we have too much baggage between the genders. If I ever get back into the dating scene, I think I'll give the brothers a miss. It just seems like it's too much hassle.

I do think that there is a culture of just being together without the ring in the Black community and there is also the added burden of fighting stereotypes and racist assumptions of non-Blacks–if the woman is open to other races. In addition, Black men are far more likely to actually marry out then Black women–regardless of economic background–so the marriage dearth numbers are still going to be lop-sided for Black women.

I think Black women just face a set of unique set of challneges that other races of women simply do not have to deal with.

It could be the age range–if she is over 35-then Black men have no compunction in exing out Black women and if the Black women is interested in non-Black men–then she will also have to deal with their reluctance and racist assumptions. If she is willing to open up her options–date younger–maybe she can meet up with someone more open minded or who is foreign. She should also try differnt dating sites–Match is known as a glorified hook up site and where self imposed players trall.

Dating is hard.

Educated black women delay marriage and childbearing for career and face a choice. If you want a partner by your mid 30s your choices are severely restricted as the pool of educated men is shrinking as they get married to women in their late 20s. Why? Men who finally want to get married go for younger women less likely to immediately want to start a family. So educated black women face a choice- marry for love within your class or marry for love within your race. Its basically Sophie's choice for a women who have racial consciousness ( not implying that women who marry out dont have consciousness) and wanted to marry an educated black man and start a family. Your choice marry a man who is less accomplished in terms of educational attainment/career than you or marry a man as accomplished as you that may be asian/hispanic or white.

Most think tanks won't pay US to do OUR OWN RESEARCH, but will pay those who know NOTHING about their subject matter to complete such research and present their findings as STATISTICAL FACTS.

I'm sick of being researched when the results are going to be used against me and NOT TO HELP ME.