Jack & Jill Politics

AFTERNOON OPEN THREAD IS UP!!!

The POTUS' Ritz Carlton's 5 bedroom suite in Moscow will have marble floors in the "tropical type" shower. Somethings just can't be fathomed...talking about living large!!

George W. Bush on the 4th of July in Okla when asked what he misses most about being President of the United States:

"I sure miss being commander in chief of such fine men and women"

Sigh...Sigh...Sigh! STFU!

he then went on to add "because I would have had them invade Iran WEEKS ago"

With all this talk of Michael Jackson "blackness" it occurs to me that maybe the thing we should be talking about is how & what exactly do we define as "blackness"?

Is it skin tone? Is it economic? Is it social?

How do we define blackness? It just seems to me that we tend to define blackness by some stereotypic equivalence?

After we define blacknmess, then we need to set degree's of blackness.

good question. people were asking if barack obama was "black enough" and he would say compared to who? flava flav? I think it's a question of whether or not someone is "down" with our causes and is not so quick to run from his own culture. I don't knock MJ in this sense because his father did a great job in shitting on his self esteem and self worth. i'm not mad at him for dating white women because let's face, what sista would be checking for MJ after what was said and done? I think we would find the answer to your question in chris rock's bit about niggas and black people.

lamh, good question. I don't really separate "blackness" from being "black" although I'm sure some do so I would love to read the definition.

For me it doesn't I mater if you are rich/poor, conservative/liberal, light/dark, natural/processed or intelligent/ignorant. I don't think any of these things define blackness per se, because there are large groups of black folk that fall into each category. However, there is always some group that will define how they want blackness to be and then criticize everyone who doesn't fit into that mold.

Clarence Thomas may not act in the best interests of blacks, but he is still black. Souldja Boy may be a baffoon but he is still black. Does one have more "blackness" then the other? And, if/when you choose the baffoon, please explain why.

Very true!

To me Black is a political/social jargon, it defines NO cultural cradle.
It is like saying south america is latin america, which strip off the native americans, because latino = south europeans, a reference to south european colonialists.


I think afro-americans prefer black or negro to avoid connotations to Africa, a poor and messy continent.
I mean in the USA you see people who never set their feet in Europe calling themselves italians, irish, etc. …

But in the end people want to be accepted, and in many cases by any means. Which i think was the case of MJ.
Was he a victim?


It is important because his attitude sets a precedent (well he was not the first one, but he went to extremes).
If he had the right to do it, or if he did anything Wrong is ot the case.
After all he did Harm no one undergoing plastic surgery.

Do we have the right to judge him?
Hell no!
But we have the right to analyze WHY would anyone do that (if he actually did it, you know to bleach his skin)?

MJ was Black, self-hating and crazy. but, he was Black. he gave over 300 million to Black charities, which is more than a whole lotta these 'DOWN' people have given.

I think people are too obsessed with what he looked like and who he dated and what his kids look like. He was a good man who had a REALLY tough life, but that doesn't mean he hated Black people (other than his father).

It is a mindset, just like 'ghetto' is!

Lamh! Lamh! Lamh!

ALL of the above on skin tone/economic/social/stereotypic
100% on the degree of blackness from high "bleached" yellow to pitch black midnight. We need to do lunch.

I saw this little poem in a post and thought it was funny. If succinctly sums up the Palin fiasco:

"She barked like a pitbull...Flashed her teeth like a killer...Bought those diamond-bit high heels...And drove 'em down like a driller...Billy Kristol's baby...The Wuss from Wasilla"

Hey, ya'll.....had Bob for the weekend in Hampton Roads (Filipino American Friendship Day in VA Beach/church picnic yesterday, then a church visit this morning). His youngest daughter thought I was security...starting to get that more often now, so will probably start to leave the sunglasses/Bluetooth at home. LOL

Off that....not touching the (alleged) domestic angle, but I'll be glad when Steve McNair goes into the HOF. He was one of the best at the position.

OKAY D...since you brought it up. Security Guard?? The suglasses and bluetooth, ummmmm....you can't leave the black skin at home can ya? Just asking.....

Nope. Contrary to JJP opinion, that doesn't come off. ;)

Hey D. I bet you could find one or two of MJs plastic surgeons or other docs. Oh yeah, they are all running for cover right about now so they might not be able to oblige ya.

lol

But you know I'm for you with the Repups 100% because I believe in the two party system. It's just gonna be hard for you to wade thru the BS in order to "represent"

I'm sorry if you really knew about the republican candidate for governor in VA you would want VA to be saddle with him. He is Gilmore redux. It is all in abstract for you. I don't see why my state has to have a Republican governor just for a two party government to happen. Maybe your state you have a Republican governor.

delete

The economy will continue to be in trouble, if Obama and the Democrats don't do something about it then the Democratic party will be out of power for decades:

Nouriel Roubini predicts the following:

The other important aspect of the labor market is that if the unemployment rate is going to peak around 11 percent next year, the expected losses for banks on their loans and securities are going to be much higher than the ones estimated in the recent stress tests. You plug an unemployment rate of 11 percent in any model of loan losses and recovery rates and you get very ugly losses for subprime, near-prime, prime, home equity loan lines, credit cards, auto loans, student loans, leverage loans, and commercial loans – much bigger numbers than what the stress tests projected.

In the stress tests, the average unemployment rate next year was assumed to be 10.3 percent in the most adverse scenario. We’ll be already at 10.3 percent by the fall or the winter of this year, and certainly well above that and close to 11% at some point next year.

So these very weak conditions in the labor market suggest problems for the U.S. consumer, but also significant increasing problems for the banking system as these sharp increases in job losses lead to further delinquencies on loans and securities and lower than expected recovery rates.

The latest figures – published this week - on mortgage delinquencies and foreclosures suggest a spike not only in subprime and near-prime delinquencies, but now also on prime mortgages. So the problems of the economy are significantly affecting the banking system. Even if for a couple of other quarters banks are going to use the new Financial Accounting Standards Board (FASB) rules and under-provisioning for loan losses to report better-than-expected results, by Q4, with unemployment rates above 10 percent, that short-term accounting fudging will have a significant impact on reported earnings. And this will show the underlying weakness in the economy. So banks may fudge it for a couple of other quarters, but eventually the effects of very sharp unemployment rates and still sharply falling home prices are going to drag down earnings and have a sharp effect on losses and capital needs of the banks and of the entire financial system.

Essentially, the results today suggested that there are not as many green shoots. These green shoots, as we’ve argued, are mostly yellow weeds that may even turn into brown manure if a double dip W-shaped recession occurs in 2010-2011. And it’s not just the employment situation. Real consumption and retail sales remain weak. Industrial production remains weak. The housing market, in terms of price adjustment, remains weak, even if the quantities - demand and supply - may be closer to bottoming out. Indeed, the inventory of unsold new homes is so large that you could stop producing new homes for almost a year to get rid of that inventory. Moreover, about 50% of existing home sales are distressed sales (short sales and foreclosed homes).

The labor market conditions may have a significant effect on how long it takes for the housing market to bottom out. It’s already estimated that by the end of this year, there will be about 8.4 million people who have a mortgage who have lost jobs, and therefore have essentially little income. Therefore, the number of people who will have difficulties servicing their mortgages is going to rise very sharply.

Home prices have already fallen from their peak by about 27 percent. Based on our analysis, they are going to fall by at least another 40 percent, and more likely 45 percent, before they bottom out. They are still falling at an annualized rate of over 18 percent. That fall of at least 40-45% percent of home prices from their peak is going to imply that about half of all households that have a mortgage – about 25 million of the 51 million that have mortgages – are going to be underwater with negative equity in their homes, and therefore will have a significant incentive to just walk away from their homes.

The job market report is essentially the tip of the iceberg. It’s a significant signal of the weaknesses in the economy. It affects consumer confidence. It affects labor income. It affects consumption. It affects the willingness of firms to start increasing production. It has significant consequences of the housing market. And it has significant consequences, of course, on the banking system.

Roubini is an expensive subscription. Do you have an online back door to his website?

Got it from Atrios.

Many people have bailed, been saving their cash - i.e. "Cash is king" - and basically preparing to ride out the pending disaster. Why work to help the Gov't when the Gov't plans to take even more of your money? The Top 50% of wage-earners have been paying about 97% of the taxes for funding the Gov't (That includes wage-earners filing jointly who make around $25-30,000 ... jointly.), and many from that group have bailed.

I don't know why Nouriel Roubini doesn't think unemployment will hit 11% until next year. It will be over 11% this year...heck, just look at the 14-17% unemployment in many of the major producing areas already.

Many people didn't see it coming soon enough, but are now starting to 'feel' and see it, and are basically stuck - A Second Job: The Right Choice for You?

At some point, the entire economic system is going to collapse ... sorta like the WTC did.

This country has survived the Great Depression.
(rolls eyes)

Wimbledon doubles of the Williams sisters coming up on NBC anyone who is interested....

What’s Your Household’s Cap-and-Trade Tax Burden? - The study shows that a cap-and-trade system designed to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 15 percent would place an annual burden of $144.8 billion on American households. The average annual household burden would be $1,218, which would be approximately 2% of the average household income.

I make less than $9000-a-year and my "cap-and-trade burden" was 4.11% of that. Looks like it will hit the poor harder.

so Karmi - how was the July 4th TeaParty?

I'm a hermit, i.e. I don't do parties...

All I have to say is... if you make less than $9000 a year, you need to be less concerned with black people, and more concerned with getting yourself together.

Hermit? It shows...

Probably save more a month than you do. It's all about living within your means...

Less time being worried about what black people are doing, and more time being worried about yourself may result in better means to live within, LOL.

lol lol

Please note that this is a rightwing thinktank that has a history of providing misleading figures:

Tax Foundation Figures Produce Misleading and Inaccurate Impressions of Middle Class Tax Burdens

Your info comes from a left-wing site. Anyway, basic math will show that companies always pass their costs on to the consumers, and the costs through "cap and trade" are going to be a *LOT* larger than any of the current estimates.

Well that think tank at least deals with reality. According to the CBO and other analysts the argument that it will cost middle class families less than what many critics are asserting.

Yeah, right...

Marion Barry is on that stalker steez:


D.C. Councilmember Marion Barry Arrested for Stalking

By Matt Zapotosky and Martin Weil
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, July 5, 2009; 10:01 AM

D.C. Council member Marion Barry was arrested last night and charged with stalking a woman after the woman reported that Barry was "bothering her" as the two traveled in separate vehicles in Anacostia Park, police said this morning.

At about 8:45 p.m., a woman traveling near the intersection Good Hope Road and Anacostia Drive flagged down a U.S. Park Police officer to report that a man in a vehicle nearby was stalking her, said Sgt. David Schlosser, a Park Police spokesman. That man, Schlosser said, was Barry.

The officer interviewed the woman and Barry, then arrested Barry and took him to the Park Police's Anacostia Station, Schlosser said. There a detective interviewed Barry again, and police charged him with a misdemeanor count of stalking. Barry was released and ordered to appear in court, likely sometime later this week, Schlosser said.

Schlosser declined to identify the woman or specify her relationship with Barry. He also declined to detail what Barry told officers regarding the incident.

Barry's attorney, Frederick D. Cooke Jr., said last night that he had heard a "rumor" that Barry had been detained or arrested. Cooke said he had just returned from watching fireworks and was trying to "find out what's going on."

Barry, a former D.C. mayor, has had a series of brushes with the law during a long career in politics and civic activism. He is currently on probation for tax offenses



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ar...

Azzhole gonna fool around and loose his "black card" like OJ!

But did the bitch set him up?

Tee, hee, hee

BWA HA HA HA

LOL!!! Y'all BOTH ain't right!

More on McNair:

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) - Police worked Sunday to unravel the relationship between slain former NFL quarterback Steve McNair and his friend, a 20-year-old woman who was found shot to death alongside him in his downtown condominium.

McNair, who led the famous Tennessee Titans' drive that came a yard short of forcing overtime in the 2000 Super Bowl, was found dead on a sofa in the living room Saturday with multiple gunshot wounds, including one to the head. His friend, Sahel Kazemi, was very close to him on the floor, killed by a single gunshot. A pistol was discovered near her, but police said it took a while to find the firearm.

Authorities didn't immediately say who was to blame for the killings, but they weren't looking for any suspects.

Robert Gaddy called 911 after being alerted by a friend that something was wrong with McNair. Gaddy had been friends with McNair since they played at Alcorn State. Police asked him not to discuss what he saw in the condo or McNair's relationship with Kazemi.

"I want people to know that Steve did not deserve this. A person as great as Steve McNair did not deserve to have his life ended in such a fashion," Gaddy told The Associated Press on Sunday morning.

McNair, 36, and Kazemi were together just two days earlier, when she was pulled over driving a 2007 Escalade registered to her and McNair. She was arrested on a DUI charges, and he was allowed to leave in a taxi.

McNair and Kazemi apparently knew each other from a restaurant the quarterback and his family frequented, but workers there wouldn't talk about their relationship. Police also refused to release any details about their relationship, simply calling Kazemi a "friend."

Police spokesman Don Aaron said McNair's wife, Mechelle, is "very distraught."

"At this juncture, we do not believe she is involved," he said. "Nothing has been ruled out, but as far as actively looking for a suspect tonight, the answer would be no."

Fred McNair, Steve McNair's oldest brother, said some family members likely will travel to Nashville on Monday to consult with Mechelle.

"It's still kind of hard to believe," Fred McNair said. "He was the greatest person in the world. He gave back to the community. He loved kids and he wanted to be a role model to kids."

He said he did not know who Kazemi was.

The bodies were discovered by McNair's longtime friend, Wayne Neeley, who rents the condo with McNair. Neeley told authorities he went into the condo, saw McNair and Kazemi, but walked first into the kitchen before going back into the living room.

Neeley then called Gaddy, who alerted authorities. Gaddy called McNair's death a tragedy for the McNair family.

"People have certain things that they do in life. We don't need to look on the situation at this time (but) on the fact we just lost a great member of society," Gaddy said.

Police said a witness saw McNair arrive at the condo in the upscale Rutledge Hill neighborhood between 1:30 and 2 a.m. Saturday and that Kazemi's vehicle was already there. The condominium is located within walking distance of an area filled with restaurants and nightspots, a few blocks from the Cumberland River and within view of the Titans' stadium.

An arrest affidavit from Thursday said Kazemi had bloodshot eyes and alcohol on her breath when she was pulled over, but refused a breathalyzer test, saying "she was not drunk, she was high."

Yeah, like I said somewhere else, I have no sympathy for him.

not that it matters, but were he ad his wife separated? shoulda stayed his ass at home and try to work things out with the misses

Nor her.

"McNair and his family frequented the restaurant where Kazemi was a waitress, according employees and patrons of Dave & Buster's in Nashville. Keith Norfleet, Kazemi's ex-boyfriend, told The Tennessean newspaper that McNair and Kazemi met at the restaurant."

So there goes the "maybe she didn't know he was married" excuse.

Good morning, JJP! Hope everybody had a great 4th. Fireworks are STILL going off in my neighborhood.

g'morning Texaxladybird. thank you for the good wishes. Hope you also enjoyed your 4th of July.

Anyways - someone call Wimbledon right now and tell John McEnroe to SHUT THE HELL UP. 2+ hours of listening to him ramble on is just - depressing.

Girlfriend Takes Air Out Of Steve McNair

Take your pick - it doesn't take Columbo to unravel the mystery here, because there is no mystery. Rich, famous married men get involved with younger women all the time. It's gone on so long there is probably a handbook somewhere describing the rules of engagement for these kind of relationships.

A handbook McNair and Kazemi obviously didn't read.

"A lot of us middle aged men would like to relive our glory years, but we don't have the stamina, or the wherewithal, or the opportunity to do it and still live our regular lives. At this point your lifestyle is often self correcting, with friends and family and work and other responsibilities that keep us from acting on those urges."

Brown Man I found your comment quite intriguing. How about a little Sunday afternoon debate on why men cheat. Steve Harvey says because they can. This incident should be a wake up call especially to older men/younger women. This was apparently fun and games to McNair but to this mentally fragile young woman it very serious. She had not learned that time passes, wounds heal, news stories die, there will be other men who are not married. The embarrassment of getting caught in the car with "The Steve McNair" as apparently toooo much for her fragile mind to bear. So why not just take yourself out and let him live to deal with the wife and family? No, after they got caught he had to fess up that he wasn't leaving his wife/family for her. She new where the gun was. RESULT=she popped him and her.

Which brings me to the bigger question of your statement above. I do think its prevalent regardless of the responsibilities that a man has, the "dog" factor is always there. But, If OLDER men, whether rich or poor, know they have all of this responsibility,why keep doing it, not knowing what Pandora might have in her box?

Looks like they were having a lot of fun on vacation a few months ago: http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/steve_mcnair_an...

TMZ has been bringin' it. I still don't consider them a legit news source, but lately, I've definitely had to think twice about that...

What I don't understand is why men don't just get divorced. What the hell is the point in being married if you always steppin' out. Just be single with a 'baby mama' If you gonna be a ho, just be one.

Don't put a woman thru marriage just to step out. And in this case, step out and get shot dead.

DAMN.

because there's always someone out there willing.

I don't know how long he's been married, but if he was willing to step out on his wife and 4 kids with a 20 yr old, methinks that somethin wrong was goin gon in the first place, they tried to work it out, but in the process, he moved out and started spending time with another chick just to figure things out. it's not like he wanted to be with her, but she was more his jump-off until he worked things out with the wife.

Even though it's a bit of a celebrity news site, they have been RIGHT far more often than they've been wrong.

Why would you think he wasn't still in love with his wife? Sex with another woman has no bases for leaving your wife & family. The fam is forever the mistress was temporary fun and games. Sanford was the exception and as far as Admiral is concerned he was faking that.

But what's love got to do with it?

I ain't a fan of Toni Braxton, but "Love woulda brought him home that night"

That's what I mean. Why get married in the first place? If you don't respect the concept, just don't do it. I mean, what does it mean to be a husband?

Does $ and ego make you that stupid? The condo, the car, the readily accessible guns?

Apparently, it does.

ICAM

Yeah, and you know what? Since McNair had not broke the law, he was allowed to go home in a taxi. I bet that girl was madder than hell. She now had a police record and McNair was telling her. 'what's the problem, I bailed you out' NAW, I ain't leaving my wife and kids for you!

GF was steamed. Afterall, this woman had so few friends that she called her EX boyfriend to come and get the car!
Wonder what type of shyt he was saying after picking up her vehicle. Cause it sounds like SHE broke it off, not him. She was going to be with McNair, she thought. Her exBF probably broke it down for her and then she confronted Steve. Including telling her she wouldn't be able to get jobs with that DUI. She was hotter than a hornet, I bet.

McNair, probably told her he didn't give 2 shyts about that vehicle. He probably wanted to sell it right then, rather than let it be traced back to his ass. I wonder why he didn't just put the title in her name to begin with.

Well, it had only been 4 mos. Maybe, he planned to but couldn't initially when he purchased it. Don't know what was going through his mind to leave such a paper trail.

That paper trail is probably what made her believe she actually meant something.

She/McNair could have gotten the DUI erased, that wasn't it. McNair was never gonna put the car in her name (it was probably leased thru the end of the fling).

This 20 year old girl was in love with a man who never intended to leave his wife/fam. After she realized that when the DUI STORY came out in the news and he had to tell her that the affair had to go bye-bye I'm not leaving my wife, she popped him.

All in all, this would probably make a great Lifetime movie.

lol @
"it was probably leased thru the end of the fling".

Myth, you are making a LOT of sense.

I don't think she was in love. How you gone be in love with some man that FREQUENTs the restaurant you work at with HIS FAMILY?

She was a user, that had been USED and couldn't stand that she had been played by a BLACK man! You know those folks ALL think they better than us, your having money, just mean you prey for their schemes. She never thought SHE was being played.

A 20 year old believed everything his lying azz was telling her. "I'm not happy with my wife; my kids get on my nerves; you make me happy; I just love being with you; I LOVE YOU!!"

She wasnt a user, he was a liar. The lies were exposed when the arrest hit the news. He probably said "I don't know her other than as a waitress at the Pancake House."

Nothing worse than a woman scorned Whiterose. (Betcha they found a bullet hole thru the penis)

Enjoyed your write up. It was so sincerely real and believable.

"The irony of this whole thing, at least to me, is that McNair probably was killed with one of his own guns, a weapon he was often found with in his car while the quarterback of the Tennessee Titans. That instant access to a gun that he thought would keep him safe is very likely the reason he is dead today."


All I can say is Wow. Was wondering where she got the gun.

i hear ya, Brown Man

Today's Conversation There's a Difference Between Independence And Freedom http://tinyurl.com/kje7x2

Exceprted: Have you ever had a friend who "had" to ask "permission" from a significant other just to hang out with you? I'm not talking about being considerate or checking for previously made plans. I'm referring to giving all power away. They couldn't even determine their own schedule. I've seen women do this and they walk around eggshells trying not to draw a negative emotional response from this person who is evaluating you to find out if you're a "trouble-maker". Meaning that you'd ask a reasonable question and expect a reasonable response. The relationship may never be one specifically abusive but the fear of its loss colors everything the woman does.

Made me realize that until college, I never had black male teachers. What was everyone else's experience w/ black male teachers?

From WAPO: Number of Black Male Teachers Belies Their Influence

By Avis Thomas-Lester
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, July 4, 2009

Tynita Johnson had attended predominantly black schools in Prince George's County for 10 years when she walked into Will Thomas's AP government class last August and found something she had never seen.

"I was kind of shocked," said Tynita, 15, of Upper Marlboro. "I have never had a black male teacher before, except for P.E."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ar...

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http://panafya.com/
Fitness, health & wellness for black women

I think I might have had only 2 black male teachers EVER, from kindergarten on up to college:

1) a student band teacher from middle school

2) driver's ed teacher

LMAO Town, Driver's Ed!!!

I had a couple of black substitute teachers, and in 5th grade my principal was a black male (K-4, a white guy).

But the only time I saw black males at school (besides the student band teacher and the driver's ed teacher) they were the janitors.

I had a Black male Social Studies teacher in elementary and another one in middle school for algebra.

I butted heads with both of them because I didn't buy the logic that adults were always right. Plus, I kinda had a fly mouth. :)

My 4th, 5th, and 6th grade teachers were male...one white in 6th...his name was Mr.Good and his hands were incredibly soft, And he enunciated and articulated his words precisely. His voice was soft, too. Never raised it. He kept a box of tissues on his desk and could not write on the chalkboard without first wiping his hands afterward.

NONE of us had ever seen that behavior before in a teacher, we found it very fetish-like, even though we didn't know what a fetish was, but then when our parents came up to school for the first PTA conference,having heard their children describe MrGood and his softhands, they came home and told us..back then the polite word was Queer. We just said, OH! OK.

We did not laugh AT him, we liked him, he was a great teacher, we all just knew he was DIFFERENT.

Wow. Your question brought back so many elementary school memories. Sorry for the digression.

Interesting and thought provoking article. We need to take stock of what is important so as not to lose an entire generation of kids.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/us/05prison.h...

pictures of the First Family on 7/4/09

http://www.herald-dispatch.com/news/x1850783159...

Ex-NFL MVP McNair Killed
Former QB for Ravens, Titans Shot in Nashville
By Mark Maske
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, July 5, 2009

Former Tennessee Titans and Baltimore Ravens quarterback Steve McNair, known for his prolific passing and on-field toughness during a 13-year NFL career, was shot and killed in Nashville, police said yesterday.

McNair, 36, and a woman were found dead in a condominium complex, a Nashville police spokesman told reporters gathered near the property. Investigators had not yet drawn any conclusions about the circumstances of the shooting, said Don Aaron, the spokesman.

Police identified the female victim as Sahel Kazemi, 20. Authorities said she had one gunshot wound to the head, that McNair was shot several times, and that a pistol was discovered near Kazemi's body. Autopsies are scheduled for today.

Kazemi was charged with driving under the influence after being stopped early Thursday in a vehicle registered to her and McNair, according to authorities.

Earlier yesterday, police had declined to identify the female victim but had indicated that it was not McNair's wife, Mechelle.

"I don't have any answers for you now as to what's happened, who's responsible, what the circumstances are," Aaron said.

No one had been arrested for the shooting, said Aaron, who indicated that investigators were questioning visitors to the complex to see if they had any information.

"We are saddened and shocked to hear the news of Steve McNair's passing today," Titans owner Bud Adams said in a written statement released by the team. "He was one of the finest players to play for our organization and one of the most beloved players by our fans. He played with unquestioned heart and leadership and led us to places that we had never reached, including our only Super Bowl. Our thoughts and prayers are with his family as they deal with his untimely passing."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ar...

So. . . had he been at home with his family, he'd be alive today?

What I found even more interesting? Supposedly he rented this condo with somebody named McNeely, who initialy found them both. This guy did not call the police. Instead, he calls McNair's buddy from Acorn, Gaddy, who comes over and HE calls the police. McNeely, told Gaddy something 'was wrong' with McNair.

How can you see 2 dead folks and NOT call the police?

Since McNair had multiple gunshot wounds I will not be surprised if the autoposy reveals she was pregnant.

Gurl you know all of them were using the condo on certain dates. That's why they all had keys. I bet McNeely & Gaddy's wives are looking up side their heads in a twisted kinda way today. They were calling each other because they didnt know how to explain the condo to the other wivesl. Pregnancy is no reason to kill someone, especially is he has money. Love, getting stopped by the police and being in the news and more than anything else, 'WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU ARE NOT LEAVING YOUR WIFE!"

You right, Myth. I had not thought of that.
She might not have been preggers, but something made her go beserk, that had to do with pride&dignity.

Yeah, that was suspect that he went in the kitchen, then walked BACK into the living room and THEN called someone else to have them call the police. What the hell?

I was like WTF, too!! I kept trying to picture, what the scene had to look like for him to not know they were dead and to not see blood. Doesn't sound right.

What I pictured was that the back of the sofa was to the door or facing a wall perpendicular to the door...where you can't see the folks on the sofa or in front of it but simply the back of the sofa.


Even if McNair was on the sofa, if you are shot in the head isn't your neck cocked at an odd angle in death? Like a newborn, that can't hold it's head up? I wonder how she approached McNair was she sitting next to him..and just shot him point blank in the head, if so why all the multiple shots...did the headshot come last?


It also sounds odd, that at first they couldn't find the gun, then they found it 'near' her? Sounds like tampering...

your discussions have been interesting....a lot of points made.

Well, what I HEARD is that

It was a murder-suicide, which is why he was shot multiple times and her only once in the head. That she was his 4 month GF, that he had just purchased her an Escalade. We know it was only 4 months old cause she remained friends with the ex-BF, and he said they broke up 4 mos ago. In fact, when she was stopped for the DUI, McNair was in passenger and couldn't drive either, soooo she called the ex-BF and he came and took possession of the vehicle and McNair of course paid for both to get bailed out. She also told her neighbors that her BF purchased the Escalade for her.

Anyhoo, supposedly she was some waitress in some restaurant chain.

Ain't that nothin? Guess McNair needed a vehicle to ride around in with her, eh? One that costs more than her salary could afford.

Now, isn't this a mess...McNair had four kids and had a reputation of being a great Southern gentleman and family man...he was from MS....but guess he couldn't resist that white stuff and now he is dead!

And done left his wife and kids with all the shame of his philandering and all the unseemly circumstances surrounding his death. Hopefully, his affairs were in order and the kids and her have the financials to cushion the grief and pain and to have a solid future without financial woes. Wonder, how fast she will sell that Esacalade.

I just wonder where a 20year old woman got a gun and just why she shot him, supposedly she knew he was married when she hooked up with him. Maybe, not.

"Guess McNair needed a vehicle to ride around in with her, eh? "
LMAO

Whiterose, don't you have to have buying power for someone 16 years younger than you to want to stay with your old azz? Some things just come with a price and she needed/wanted a car.

Yes, that too.

But you know he did not want to drive around with her in any of his KNOWN vehicles (probably got those EGO plates on 'em).
I think this youngIranianthang thought she was all that, and in her culture a man being 16 yrs older, is very appropriate. Almost, what the family orders.She was more than happy to have him buy her things, she expected it and probably thought it was a sign of respect, vs. her being pimped.

I think we need to back up a bit. I do not understand the need to belittle the woman. She was a 20 yr old (Mid Eastern or S. Asian but definitely not white) woman who worked at Dave & Busters. The kind of job most 20 yr olds have. Why the disgust? She was a kid, barely into adulthood. Would it have made a difference if she were black?

He purchased a car for her (it's in both of their names so Mrs. McNair won't be selling it without the consent of the young woman's estate) and apparently lived in the condo at which they were found. Neighbors reported that he was a frequent visitor. So it doesn't seem like he was trying to hide the affair. Her ex also reported that McNair had promised this woman that they would be together forever and that very recently she wanted to breakup with him.

The fact of the matter is we don't know why she shot him or even if she shot him. We don't even know if the McNair's were even still "together." Seems like he spent a lot of "public" time with this woman. He purchased a car and put it in both their names. How do you explain that in divorce court? You don't unless you're not worried. I also found it of note that while he was hanging out with this woman, the wife and kids were in Mississippi for the holiday.

This isn't about him not resisting the white stuff - black stuff can get you killed just as easily. Seems more like a young a girl who fell in love with a charismatic star and ish when all kinda' ways wrong. What kind of "wrong" we'll probably never know.

20 years old is old enough to know not to mess around with a married man.

Period.

Her surname sounds Iranian.

I don't care how old she is, she shouldn't have been messing around with a MARRIED man. I don't care if he called himself separated or what. As long as he was LEGALLY married, she shouldn't have even entered into a relationship with him. Sounds to me like she was stupid.

And HE was wrong too, it's not just HER fault, he knew he made vows to his WIFE and he was stepping out on her. I guess he thought he was slick. Whatever it was, I hope he thinks it was worth his LIFE. I have no sympathy for either of them.

Yeah, most 20 yr olds are stupid when it comes to the guy down the street. Add in star power, an Escalade and access to an upscale condo all within a few months and I can only imagine what was going through her mind. I don't know one woman who didn't make some mistakes with men in their 20's that they haven't tried to mentally erase ... and those were mistakes made with John Doe. Not a superstar who everyone adores.

I don't know what McNair told this young woman about his marital status. What I do know is that one of the two definitely knew what his marital status was. It's pure speculation as to what the other party knew. Just think about how many "grown women who should know better" are duped by married men everyday. It would not be beyond the realm for her not to know. I see it everyday. Fresh faced, young chicas taken in by the sun, sand, night life, laid back atmosphere, and the $$$. Naive, yes and targeted by forces they have never had any experience with before. It is an art form here. All you can do is shake your head and hope they learn a lesson before they encounter the next predator.

There are no excuses, unless his ass was DIVORCED you don't mess with him. "Separated" doesn't mean anything these days.

Well the latest article, says that not only was she a waitress at Dave&Buster, but that the McNAIR FAMILY frequented the restaurant, which is how she met him. Her middleeasternpride wouldn't let her accept she was justapeiceofass to him..so she shot him and herself..to 'save face', in her culture.

Middle Eastern pride? Thought you said she was white. Saving face in her culture? Really? Thought it was her racist, redneck, white sense of entitlement. Oh,I get it. She's trying to save face for her racist, redneck, middle eastern white culture, 'cuz she's entitled.

O you really have exceptionally poor critical thinking skills. I should not post to you at all.

Redneck is racist. You do not need to be white to have a redneckracist mentality. Did you think all rednecks were white? They aren't. When you go in to the hood and those people in the corner stores are Iranian or Korean or Chaldean...they treat blacks with the same redneckracism as you find in the South. Now, most black folks get that who live in those areas. They get that these folks that just immigrated here, off the boat, are treating them like niggers. Just totally disrespectful to them as human beings, despite them being the customers they are making money off of.

See middle eastern/Iranian culture, if she is of such heirtage, just compounds that redneckracism. Because they have all these values about family and females as virgins etc. This would make if doubly bad that she was not just defiled but defiled by what all immigrants consider the bottom of the barrel in American humanity..BLACK PEOPLE. It would be bad enough for any man to do that to her, but a BLACK one...o boy, she was truly the lowest,skankho, unsalvageable whore of all. Which is why, in her culture she deserved to die, her own brothers and father would kill her for such so she simply killed herself, rather than shame her family. Because she couldn't handle it.

When the Kazemi family read she killed him too, they were proud! . She 'refused' to be a blackman's whore and her family is not disgraced with their daughters death as a whore to a BLACK man she defended her family name and values. By killing him, she restored their family honor.

Didn't you watch Mississippi Marsala, with Denzel..if not..you need to cause you clearly do not understand East Indians/Lebanese/Chaledeans/Iranian etc. culture.

But no matter how you slice it..it all comes down to entitlement on the basis of white culture.

You may not get that, but maybe if you sit and think on it for awhile you might.

Possibly not, though because you have seriously impaired deductive reasoning...a critical component of critical thinking along with inferential reasoning.

You may want to work on those.

Wow, things really suck in the world you describe.

"When the Kezemi family read she killed him too, they were proud! She restored their family honor."

Are you on something!? Did you really mean to suggest that this woman's family is proud that she's dead and killed another person to restore the family's honor!?

Until you know about this woman's particular family and their beliefs, you have no basis for making such a sweeping (outlandish) statement. You have a very facile understanding of these cultures -- and the world in general, it seems.

You lack the critical thinking skills to comprehend my posts.

Please refrain from replying to them.

Your mindset, appears to be too narrow and unexposed to understand what is written.

From the very first post, you have completely misconstrued what I wrote out of some mistaken need to identify with this woman who was used as a pieceofwhitetrashass to satisfy a grown wealthy married man's ego.

Go look up the family and send them condolences if you have so much empathy, to satisfy your compassion.

You seem to have more consideration for a dead unknown woman than you do for the living around you in humid hot weather.

Your bareassed is unable to even grasp how indecent it is to not just go bareassed but to tell the world your odors are a gust of wind away from their poor unsuspecting noses. As if the heat wasn't enough for them to bear already.

Please just quit. Your worldview is to myopic and your reading comprehension is too limited to reply to the posts. Please don't keep trying to misconstrue what I post.

You're so right. I am ill equipped to deal with the likes of you - You're completely incomprehensible to me.

Me, too, Mothsmoke. Me, too.

Excuse me? What disdain for a 20yr old. My disgust and disdain is about McNairs, judgment.The fact that he was a frequent visitor goes to his judgment AGAIN.

I have not attempted to give a reason for her actions.

Purchasing a car and putting that piddly amount of money in her name, don't mean shyt in the scheme of his total financial picture. That would be like the average person buying tickets to a JonasBros concert.puleeze.

Why in the hell, would a WIDOW, need to explain any friggin thing in a divorce court? You just have everything all twisted and your panties are so bunched tight, you are unable to think rationally. And those Kazemi people WILL have to sell it to give her MRS McNAIR HER money, every single thing in HIS name is HERS now. So, you need to just stop and think about why folks have the LEGAL title of MRS. It is all about property! Divorce don't have shyt to do with this one damn bit, which is why his ass is dead.

O it is VErrry much about not resisting white stuff, white stoopid entitlementminded women, who he told he wasn't leaving hisBLACK wife andBLACK kids for!. Young girl, my ass, in love my ass...charismatic starathlete..BULL!!

She was just another piece of white trashass and realized she wasn't ever going to be more than that, but since he was a BLACK man she shot him dead with her racist,redneck mentality. That's ALL this is. He didn't respect her enough to marry her and she didn't respect his black ass enough to let him live after she gave it up.Her redneck pride wouldn't allow her to live with the thought. Hell, she could of even been preggers! You wanna write a soap...there's the soap for you!

Now, I do not know what your the reason is for your emotional rant, but it clearly does not match the facts.

"Anyhoo, supposedly she was some waitress in some restaurant chain.

Ain't that nothin? Guess McNair needed a vehicle to ride around in with her, eh? One that costs more than her salary could afford."

Those two statements sound like disdain for this young woman or in your vernacular "just another piece of ass." And yes, it may be "piddling" money to Mr. McNair, but not to a 20 yr old working at Dave & Busters who after only a few months of dating (maybe even less than that, they were only together 5 mos) is blessed with an expensive car and an upscale condo.

Re the car. Mrs. McNair wasn't a WIDOW when the car was purchased. Reread my post. Clearly, that was written in the context of questioning the nature of his relationship with his wife and why he felt so free to openly be with this woman.

And speaking of the facts: she's not white and frankly, I don't know how many racist, rednecks enter into romantic relationships with high profile black men. My "rant" was not in the least "emotional." I responded to your post because the subtext of your initial post was very clear - you just explicitly stated it in your response:

"O it is VErrry much about not resisting white stuff, white stoopid entitlementminded women. Young girl, my ass, in love my ass...charismatic starathlete..BULL!!

She was just another piece of ass and realized she wasn't ever going to be more than that, but since he was a BLACK man she shot him dead with her racist,redneck mentality. That's ALL this is."

Just for the record, domestic violence doesn't know black or white. Wonder if your rant would have been the same if she'd been a 20 yr old black woman? Would she have been vulnerable and taken advantage of or would she be just a piece of ass?

One more thing ... don't worry about my panties. Hot year round where I live and I rarely wear them.

Redneck chicks from racist backgrounds hook up with black men all the time. That's why you see all these redneck chicks with dusty looking uncombed hair biracial babies in Walmart all the time.

If this chick was a Dave & Buster's waitress and waited on his FAMILY, she knew he was married. Probaby spit in the wife's drink and what not. Probably had a good laugh in the back about how she was doing McNair and the wife was clueless.

There might be something to WRB's theory that she didn't want to live with the knowledge that she was tricking for a black man. Although she wasn't white, white women do lie and do strange things to cover up the fact they were a black man's trick.

"Those two statements sound like disdain for this young woman"

No, they sounded like disdain for McNair! He picked up a woman of no means and then didn't wanna ride like he had to with 'her means' soooo,he purchases the Escalade. NONE of that is about her, it is all about HIM!! His EGO. His EGO, that he could BUY what he wanted and she would be GRATEFUL that 'sugardaddy' was rollin her like that! That is all about HIM! Wanting his ego stroked by some TWENTY year old and he is a 36 year old man.

See, you thinking it is about HER is just as dumbass as her and why he is Dead...but then anyone, that lets their ass hang out probably don't know their ass from a hole in the ground and would try to defend this stoopidity as being about themselves.

Just cause you didn't gET that don't go saying I was putting her down. Cause HE was. She was just another piece of ass to STeve! That is the ENTIRE point!! She shot him MULTIPLE times!!

What is it you do not get about being a WIDOW when it comes to property??. No matter when your husband makes a purchase,while he is married it is YOURS too!! His bills are yours and so are his ASSETS! That is the entire point of marital property LAW.

O your post was emotional, trying to defend the indefensible which was McNairs' actions..as that was the point of my post that you replied to.

Look, this is not domestic violence..this is poorwhitetrashbeendumped violence. And as far as your panties go and your need to talk about where there AREN't...it speaks volumes as to why you are trying to defend the piece of TRASH he took up with for SHYTS&GIGGLES.

She got the last laugh on his BLACK ass!!

O and one last thing, I don't give a damn if she was pink, orange or green...the point is she wasn't BLACK!!

I haven't tried to defend anyone. Just didn't understand your need to disparage her. Two people are dead - two families are mourning. None of us know what this woman meant to him or the nature of their relationship. Yet you save most of your vitriol for the young woman.

Your comprehension of my post seems a bit off so I'm not going to waste anymore time. Oh wait, completely forgot your nom de plume. Had I remembered, I would never have bothered responding in the first place. This could turn into the neverending post, response, etc.

With respect to my unmentionables, you brought 'em up. I was just putting your mind to rest about them being bunched. BTW, I don't wear hoisery either - same reason. Too hot! I'm definitely Not Our Kinda' People, but I do have a lovely set of pearls.

"I haven't tried to defend anyone. Just didn't understand your need to disparage her. "

Yes, you did try to defend her. I didn't disparage her. I called it as it was. She was a piece of ass to Steve, nothing more. The problem was she did not understand what she was to him. O it is really clear what the woman meant to him. There is not a whole lot that needs to be added to rich married former athlete with young 20something waitress. It is VERY obvious. There was no vitriol...simply straight up truth.

The problem is some of these hot tailed no panty wearing women THINK they are more than a piece of ass, to these men.

The type of thinking that matches your lack of comprehension of my post which is how this got started. Complete with your trying to assert some respectablityand property ownership on the piece of asses part.

As far as your unmentionables, saying your panties are in a knot, when you clearly misconstrued my point, is NOT the same as you telling the entire world you go BAREASSED.

Keep your pearls for your kind of people. I could give less than a damn. You told us all what you are. Which accounts for why you were attempting to defend McNair's piece of ass.

Now I recall exactly what is about your posts that I've never found very enlightening. There is little to no substance - just your holier than thou value judgments.

It's so "VERY obvious" to you -- without any real facts -- what kind of woman Ms. Kamezi was that you feel free to call her everything but a child of God.

And according to you, because I, like so many other women who live in this climate, don't regularly throw on a pair of undies in this scorching heat (and really don't care if you know), "I have told [you] all what [I] am. Which accounts for why [I am] attempting to defend McNair's piece of ass."

Well I tell you what, I will take whatever declasse moniker you have ascribed to me over the attributes you have demostrated thus far. See, whatever I am, I also have the ability to empathize, you'll never find me attacking someone I don't know or passing judgment without getting all of the facts. I'll take these traits over someone who regurlarly dons undies anyday.

It's too bad you can't see beyond the tip of your nose - I bet you've missed out on meeting some great/interesting people and experiences.

Sorry, my posts are full of substance. The type that folks who want to justify the unjustifiable, simply can't tolerate as it highlights how totally ignorant they actually are.

It is obvious becasue of the REAL facts, that you choose to give little or no import. FACT..he was married. FACT he was rich. FACT he was too old to be with a 20 year old. FACT he was famous. FACT he pimped her. FACT she was a piece of ass to him. Now, perhaps, I should give you the benefit of the doubt and suspect you are just a youngtwentysomething as well, and too young to understand these facts and how they connect.

Cause you say you are waiting for facts..as if All them facts didn't make sense to you. You try to act like they are VALUE judgments.hahahaha, no wonder you wandering around bareassed...you probably think that means you are open and honest. lol

I never told you what kind of women she was. I told you she was a piece of whitetrash ass to HIM. Got it? She wasn't shyt to him. Don't matter if SHE thought she was, matter of fact, it is pretty damn obvious also, that when he point blank told her she WAS just a piece of ass, she murdered him and killed herself too!

Now, why you feel such a need to defend this woman. I do not care. She knew as a waitress that he and his FAMILY frequented the restaurant she worked in.

That to me is the END of STORY. She KNEW.

So, nothing but WHITEENTITLEMENT made her believe she could 'pull that'. When she found out different, she shot him DEAD.

Your ability to empathize with bareassed women is just another sign of how clueless you are, but then folks always defend folks that act indecent just like them.

My opinion of you is meaningless..it's your opinion of yourself where you felt the need to divulge you are a bareassed women in summer heat who allows her secretions to waft through the air to prove she is her 'own kinda people'

I don't find meeting those type individuals interesting...at all...as they are simple crude, rude and socially unrespectable not to mention totally lacking in dignity & self-respect. You know sorta like trailertrash which is very similar to redneckwhitetrash?

Behavior being touted as you somehow having 'empathy' for bareassedpearlwearingkindapeople.

ugggh

For whatever ails you, I'm sure that you can find appropriate treament AND meds ... definitely go with the meds. Godspeed.

who he told he wasn't leaving hisBLACK wife andBLACK kids for!


I didn't say it but sure was thinking it!!!!!!

Here's a pic of her.
/www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/05/steve-mcnair-killed-what_n_225851.html

HmmmHUH!! you know it chile! She got an Escalade and couldn't believe how cheaply she had been bought.

WRB,

The shooter was a white woman?

YEpper!

She is likely of Middle Eastern or S. Asian descent. Her name is Sahel Kazemi.

She is redneck ENTITLEMENT minded WHITE!

It's ok. I understand that you need her to be white to fit into your paradigm. Or maybe I missed when Iranians became "redneck ENTITLEMENT minded WHITE[S]." The world is changing so fast - that one completely passed me by.

Every damn immigrant that comes to America has the whiteENTITLEMENT mind set.

Where you been under some rock?

The world is not changing so fast, that black folks aren't still niggers to folks who just got off the boat!!

Cuban,Lebanese,Iranian, Argentinian, DON"T MATTER...they immediately get the WHITE ENTITLEMENT when it comes to how they are going to treat AA's.

It ain't MY paradigm. It is VINTAGE AMERICAN racism!!

Dude - Middle Eastern or S. Asisan descent isn't white.

She may be Caucasiasn but she is not white in the US.

But what does race have to do with this anyway? Two people are dead and all we know for sure is one was married and the other was his mistress.

Middle Eastern people are technically Caucasian.

Yeah - well, it's too late to edit that stupidity. And here I've been reading about the U.S. overthrow of Mossadegh & institution of the Shah and the author gets into that a bit.

You are right. If you look at government forms that makes you out your race down. Middle eastern is under Caucasian.

What like a separate category underneath?

I'm saying, they are group under the White/Caucasian category. In each classification there are a whole bunch of groups that would be part of that category.

Really? See - this is something I did not know.

That is technically. While they are officially white, I will agree with you that they aren't considered white by many people in practice. for example did you know that after the US acquired the Mexican territories after the war with Mexico, the Mexicans living in those territories acquired by the US were supposed to be considered white, but in practice they weren't.

Nooo! That's fascinating to say the least.

Why not? What do you think it is AFRICAN descent?

If so, there is no such thing as white period. Everybody on the damn globe are descendents of the African continent.

Otherwise, sociologically in America, she was WHITE, with all the benefit of the doubt and entitlement it brings with it..

Jezzus; there's no talking to you sometimes.

There's no need to attack a young woman you know nothing about - 'white' or otherwise.

I didn't attack HER! Geez.

White is a mindset in America. Don't have nothing to do with europeangenes, necessarily. Just like black is a culture and we have black folks all over the color spectrum when it comes to pigment. Same thing with immigrants, don't matter if they have a little melanin, they still have the american white entitlement mindset. Which can't tolerate being dissed by black folks.

McNair, had no business, as a married man pimpin this 20 year old. I don't fault her. I fault him. It still means she was a piece of trash and ass to him. This was all about his EGO.


I know she is a homicidal murderer, who shot a man she had known 4mos, after being 'gifted' with an Escalade.

AND I now know she served him AND his family at Dave&Busters, that the McNair family frequented. So the LebaneseIrianianmiddleeastern heffa KNEW he was married.

I wanna know if she had quit her job. Only to find out he would never marry her and she could only ever hope to be a KEPT woman.

Bet that is what her exBF was telling her that she was nothing but a jockho4anigger

Don't let the other poster get you down. They are defending someone who allegedly killed someone else, and they are saying you are wrong. I wonder if the opposite happened they would be defending the shooter.

What would be the opposite, exactly?

The opposite would be famous older non-black women and a younger black male.

Thanks Mallet. I just can't see how from jump Mothsmoke wanted to pretend I disparaged the girl. She was nothing but a piece of ass for McNair, and saying so is talking about HIS judgment.

She confirmed what she was when she murdered him and killed herself.

Some folks just can't stand the truth. It is even crazier that mothsmoke didn't get that the woman was white. MiddleEastern is not a race in America, even folks who are Egyptian are listed as caucasian under race on their birth certificates.

Folks just like to really show how ignorant they are at times, by ignoring reality and the hard cold facts.

Yepper!

Saw this last night after a fun day of Jazz. I couldn't (or didn't want to) process it then. But now I can.

RIP Air McNair. You were one of the greats.

I'm tired of people dying.

Me too, Pjamma. So much bad news lately. I can hardly take it.