On December 8, 2007, Virginia Congressman James "Randy" Forbes (R-VA) introduced a House resolution, H. Res. 888, that purported to promote "education on America's history of religious faith." In fact, the resolution was packed with 75 assertions, most of which amounted to lies and distortions of the American historical record.
Enter historian Chris Rodda, author of Liars For Jesus: The Religious Right's Alternate Version of American History and also head researcher for The Military Religious Freedom Foundation. In January 2008, Rodda began an ongoing series, at the website Talk To Action (disclosure: this author is co-founder of Talk To Action), which disproved House Resolution 888's numerous historical fallacies.
The resolution contained a list of 75 historical assertions. HR 888 began as follows:
"Affirming the rich spiritual and religious history of our Nation's founding and subsequent history and expressing support for designation of the first week in May as `American Religious History Week' for the appreciation of and education on America's history of religious faith."
Rodda's writing was the centerpiece of an Internet-based campaign to publicize and oppose Forbes H. Res. 888, which never made it to the House floor but managed nonetheless to gain 93 co-sponsors, mostly Republicans.
Undeterred by the failure of H. Res. 888, on may 4th, 2009 Randy Forbes re-introduced the text of the resolution, as House Resolution 397, which currently has 74 co-sponsors { http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h... }.
lamh32
I'm not one to give any advice to the Repubs, but If some enterprising Repub politician was smart, they could use the whole birther movement as their "sista soulja" moment. It may get the base pissed at them, but it would definitely get moderates, conservaDems, and independents looking at them in a better light, which in turn could get them farther, if they wanted to, nationally.
RobM
Stop making sense!
whiterosebuddy
"Instinctively, I knew I was not to step outside," Gates said,describing the officer's tone as threatening. "
SEE? This is what I mean...you better NOT open your door...Gates should have followed his instincts!!
"I was thinking, this is ridiculous, but I'm going to show him my ID, and this guy is going to get out of my house," Gates said. "This guy had this whole narrative in his head. Black guy breaking and entering."
"After handing the officer both his Harvard and Massachusetts state identification, which included his address, Gates said he began to ask the officer this question, repeatedly. "I said 'Who are you? I want your name and badge number.' I got angry."
"I stepped out on the porch to ask them his name," Gates said.
He was immediately arrested -- his arms pulled behind his back in handcuffs'
Just LOOK at EM from your door. Don't go outside AND DON't let em in.
This is BLACKNESS 101 for law abiding black citizens when confronted in their homes!
Southerngal80
Ed is a fool, did anyone check his open letter to Obama... "to hell with the Republicans" lol.
whiterosebuddy
Schultz speaks the truth..if he is our Limbaugh on radio...more power to him!! Rather have him on TV!
texasladybird
I saw something in the Morning Open Thread that I wanted to touch on for just moment. Be warned, there is no rhyme or reason to this rant.
The word socialist.
As a former poli sci major, the way some people throw it around pisses me off to NO END. You can do an entire master's thesis on socialism and would have only to begun to scratch the surface. Most people who throw around the terms "socialist" and "socialism" couldn't pick Marx, Lenin, and Stalin out of a damn line up, but feel the need to call our President "socialist" and insist he's turning us into a "socialist country".
Under a socialistic leader there wouldn't have been a bailout. GM, Chrysler, and the banks would have been hung out to dry. We would not be (in theory) be collective shareholders to a bunch of failing companies. Instead, Google, Apple, and Microsoft would find themselves under government control, after all, they are far more profitable than GM or Chrysler.
Under a socialistic leader there wouldn't have been a bailout. GM, Chrysler, and the banks would have been hung out to dry.
Can you give an explanation as to why?
Micheline
Ownership of the means of production. Right now Google, Microsoft are engines of our economy whereas the auto industry is stalling and therefore it's dead weight.
Yes, I know; I just wanted the political scientist to explain it all. People throwing political terminology they can't define bugs the shit out of me, too.
texasladybird
I never said I was a political scientist, only a former political science major. I'm also not trying to explain it all, just giving my take on a something that I see.
I believe that under a socialist leader, a bailout of the banks and the car companies would not have been on his radar since they are no longer the drivers of the economy. Hugo Chavez and his take over of the oil companies in Venezuela comes to mind.
This will turn into an affirmative action go-round ..... who's only here because they are ? or ? never ending.
rikyrah
Dyson on Hardball:
"Housing While Black"
whiterosebuddy
Rikyrah...I am shocked..can't B-liiieve you made a post of that comment!!.
OMG, !!
But I DO stand behind it. lol
lamh32
Please tell me that Tweety didn't have Pat on the show!
Southerngal80
I was so hoping Batty Bigot would be on there, so Dyson could tear him down w/ Matthews there, since they both would have been sitting next to each other. Remember the last time, there was some weak sub in for Matthews and they kept having "technical difficulties" with Dyson's mic.
rikyrah
no. it was Dyson and Clarence Page.
lamh32
Man, this is some beautiful writing by ya boy Ta-Nehisi ya'll.
READ IT YOU WON'T BE SORRY.
Hey rikyrah, this might deserve it's own post, just to give Ta-Nehisi his due.
Emma Watson's Ivy League Choice Confirmed By Esther Zuckerman
Originally posted Monday July 20, 2009 06:25 PM EDT Emma Watson Photo by: Fame
Emma Watson is similar to her Harry Potter alter ego Hermione Granger in at least one way: Her pursuit of her studies.
Watson, 19, will be attending Brown University in Providence, R.I., she confirmed to Paste magazine, saying, "I am [going to university in the Fall] – to Brown, which is an Ivy League establishment in the U.S.A. I've got a place there to read literature."
Ever since Watson went on a tour of Ivy League schools in October, speculation has circulated about where she was going to college. Rumors included Yale and Cambridge, and the U.K. publication The Daily Mail recently linked her to Columbia University.
But it was actually her Harry Potter costar Daniel Radcliffe who was one of the first people to tell the press where she was actually going.
"Me and Rupert [Grint] to all intents and purposes dropped out of school," he told The Guardian in a July 4 article. "And she's going to Brown." Producer David Heyman also told the Associated Press about Watson's college choice.
Watson won't be dropping Hermione completely, as production on the final installment of the popular series, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, is still underway. Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince is in theaters now.
That's the thesis of the First Readers of NBC News, after viewing this astonishing clip from a town hall meeting that Rep. Mike Castle held in Delaware for his constituents. What's most notable, to me, at least, is not how scared Castle looked or how passionately the woman argued for Barack Obama's foreign birth. It was the reaction of the audience, a good portion of which erupted into cheers and youbetchas. Birthers, for the uninitiated, is a term used by the media to ridicule those who believe that the president's Hawaiian birth certificate is fake and that because he was ostensibly born in Kenya, not the United States, he was never eligible to be president in the first place. To the extent that one can conclusively prove such things in our postmodern age, this claim has been extremely thoroughly debunked. The birther movement may be premised on a fictional belief, but it is savvy: birthers now wear the term "birther" as badge of honor, as if they were a persecuted minority -- which, come to think of it, is one mechanism for solidarity in the face of evidence to the contrary. ("Hitler had the "Untermenschen," Pol Pot had the "Intelligentsia," and now Obama has the "Birther.") The most prominent birthers are Alan Keyes, the former presidential candidate and Obama Senate challenger; Orly Tait, a wonderfully named lawyer from California; Phil Berg, a Democrat; and Michael Reagan, son of Ronald Reagan, and a prominent radio talk show host. This is, at once, a fringe movement and something greater. It's fringe because no important Republicans believe it, and most are offended by it. It's greater because some fairly prominent local lawmakers are beginning to sign birther petitions.
At least nine members of Congress have cosponsored a birther bill that would require prospective presidents to affirm their U.S. citizenship. What we don't know is how widespread the belief is among Republicans -- and even if the belief is confined to a narrow minority, whether the belief will spread as Republicans begin to pay closer attention to electoral politics in 2010 and 2012. In the same way that Democrats in 2004 always got a stolen election question (which, to be fair, was at least closer to reality than the birther's claims), Republican presidential candidates need to figure out how to diffuse angry birthers who are bound to show up and demand their attention. .... The buried lede to this post: Rush Limbaugh claimed today that Obama "has yet to prove that he's a citizen." Republicans have to be extra careful. If they give credence to the birthers, they're (not only advancing ignorance but also) betraying the narrowness of their base. If they dismiss this growing movement, they might drive birthers to find more extreme candidates, which will fragment a Republican political coalition.
whiterosebuddy
UGGGGGH!!!
morphus
Chris Matthews Smacks Down Birther Rep. Campbell; Makes Him Admit Obama is U.S. Citizen
But treason? Nah....unless you can draw a line from Birthers to "levying War against [the United States], or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort," which is how it's defined in the Constitution.
People are quick to throw that word against PBO's detractors. Unless they're taking up arms against the White House or selling nuclear material to al-Qaeda, calling dissent "treason" is a lot over the top.
Appearing at a "Tea Party" rally on Wednesday to protest President Obama's expansion of government, Catherine Crabill, a political neophyte running for the House of Delegates in the Northern Neck, quoted from a March 1775 speech by Patrick Henry and then went further, calling on Americans to resist the course Obama has set for the country.
"We have a chance to fight this battle at the ballot box before we have to resort to the bullet box," Crabill said. "But that's the beauty of our Second Amendment right. I am glad for all of us who enjoy the use of firearms for hunting. But make no mistake. That was not the intent of the Founding Fathers. Our Second Amendment right was to guard against tyranny."
Yeah Tweety is a wacko, but I'm gonna cut him some slack. Yesterday, he discussed what he did those 2 weeks he was on vacation.
He and his family visited South African to look in on some people he met while he was in the Peace Corps there. They also went in support of the people he met, and the non-profit group that was trying to keep the natural wildlife of Africa flowing and prosperous. They even visited a couple of schools and villages they he became familiar with during his Peace Corp days.
I gotta give him props for that...
He's still a wacko though!!! LOL.
spirit_55z
Chris Matthews is a "wacko."
whiterosebuddy
O, I just LOVE this pic...nothing like PURE childhood exuberance and joy.
Sasha's delight is sooooo heartwarming.
spirit_55z
Jimmy Carter Leaves Church Over Treatment of Women Posted: 07/20/09
After more than 60 years together, Jimmy Carter has announced himself at odds with the Southern Baptist Church -- and he's decided it's time they go their separate ways. Via Feministing, the former president called the decision "unavoidable" after church leaders prohibited women from being ordained and insisted women be "subservient to their husbands." Said Carter in an essay in The Age:
At its most repugnant, the belief that women must be subjugated to the wishes of men excuses slavery, violence, forced prostitution, genital mutilation and national laws that omit rape as a crime. But it also costs many millions of girls and women control over their own bodies and lives, and continues to deny them fair access to education, health, employment and influence within their own communities.
James Earl Carter, Jr. don't play!! Good for him. It's crazy how folks use some parts of the Bible to continue to subjugate women.
windswept
I just think it's silly how some people use parts of any religion to subjugate other people. It's been done with Christianity, Judaism, Islam...even Buddhism (thanks, Pol Pot) wasn't immune.
Having faith is a wonderful thing, but I think drawing one's identity from one's faith is when you get zealots (e.g. fundamentalists).
whiterosebuddy
I love COURAGE with conviction!!
TruthSeeker
It's not crazy at all... It says so in the bible. If you endorse the faith, then you endorse the beliefs outlined in it's text.
One has to realize that The Bible wasn't meant to be passed down generation to generation. It was meant for THAT time to explain and teach in THAT time. That time is not this time.
Lisa M
Not the Bible I read. Christ consistently elevates women and other marginalized people in scripture. Very fallible people distort scripture to justify the subjugation of women.
whiterosebuddy
Which is among many reasons I do not believe in religion & the tenets of any denomination.
RobM
Do I understand you to be saying you believe in the Bible as...?
whiterosebuddy
no.
Justice58
Thank You, again!
TruthSeeker
That's very selective reading of the text. You ignore the parts you don't accept...in that sense, that is "The Bible YOU read."
Which begs the question, if you are going to be selective, then why not go all the way, start from scratch and make up your own religion.
Are there any documents that you wholeheartedly subscribe to? You obviously require that you believe in 100% in everything any given document says.
So you have full faith in the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, the Magna Carta? Do you have full faith in any document?
Are there any Gray areas for you Truthseeker? It's all Black and White to you? Your line of questioning reveals you to be as dogmatic as a Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson.
whiterosebuddy
Jesus, never said you had to believe in the bible...he said believe in HIM.
John 3:16
djchefron
No. John wrote that after someone named Jesus died 100 years after the fact.
whiterosebuddy
huh? Please enlighten me.
djchefron
It has been an historical fact that when John wrote his gospel it was 80 to 100 years after the death of a person named Jesus.So since their were no tape recorders back then doesn't stand to reason that John took certain liberties in his account?I mean even if I say something and it gets told by different people chances are what comes out will be totally different from my original thought.
windswept
Check out the Council of Nicea in history. That one meeting was where it was decided what books went into the "official" Bible, and what books didn't.
That's been done - repeatedly. Please note the fracturing of the Protestant church alone within the united states alone
TruthSeeker
I was thinking more along the lines of an individual belief system, which would be the ultimate in being selective...
Lisa has found a way to survive Christianity... She does this by ignoring some of it's tenets, while accepting others that she finds personally beneficial. She has developed her own religion in a round-about way...by stealth, but still uses the text and probably calls herself Christian.
I wonder why not simply do the things you find life-affirming, and dispense with the religious text entirely. I suspect Lisa would be ostracized if she did that.
Lisa M
As I said before, "Bless your heart!" I will pray you will actually find the Truth you seek.
Gov. Bobby Jindal (R-LA) reemerged on the national stage yesterday, penning an op-ed in the Politico to slam efforts to reform health care and declaring the Economic Recovery Act a failure. Jindal declared the Recovery Act “a nearly trillion-dollar stimulus that has not stimulated.” However, less than 24 hours before Jindal published his op-ed, Jindal traveled to Anacoco, Louisiana to present a jumbo-sized check to residents of Vernon Parish. The funds included hundreds of thousands of dollars directly from the Recovery Act — at least $157,848 in Community Block Grant money authorized by the Recovery Act and $138,611 for Byrne/JAG job training programs created by the Recovery Act. Rather than credit the federal government or the Recovery Act he opposed, Jindal printed his own name on the corner of the massive check. View it below:
Jindal presents stimulus check
Jindal was one of the GOP governors who opposed the Recovery Act and he succeeded in blocking money for unemployment compensation.
Hell, remember Jindal's disaster of a response to Obama's non-state of the union, state of the union speech? He spent a lot of it railing against the Stimulus. These republicans are a trip.
he's MY pick for today's worst person in the world. what a MO-RAN!
spirit_55z
Host Name: AAPolitical Slugfest Show Name: Henry Louis Gates, Politics of Barack Obama, Health Care, Joe Jackson and Micheal Jackson - Tonite Date / Length: 7/20/2009 9:00 PM - 2 hrs
Description: The Arrest of Henry Louis Gates Jr., the nation's pre-eminent black scholar. The Politics of Barack Obama, Health Care, Joe Jackson and Micheal Jackson ... Let's talk politics from a African American point of view tonight on African American Political Pundit's "Political SlugFest" LIVE Tonight at 10:00 PM - "If you can handle the truth."
In defense of Joe Jackson and Black Fathers Everywhere
Joe Jackson could have been my grandfather. He had 12 children of his own and raised 8 more when his sister-in-law died in childbirth. He working in the coal mines in addition to doing odd jobs and was a strict disciplinarian. He demanded and expected law and order in his home. The family sat down to breakfast together every morning and ate food he provided (think about feeding and clothing 22 people). My mother tells me they all were at seated at the table but couldn't eat until he sat in his chair at the head of the table and said grace. There was no talking or moving. No talking because it's hard for 22 people to have a conversation without it becoming a shouting contest. No moving because his coffee cup filled to the rim might spill. The same thing for supper. The children were expected to do their chores before school chores, walk to school, follow the rules, walk home, then perform their after school chores and do their homework before supper. If someone committed an infraction there were consequences also known as an ass whupping. As a result of my grandfathers discipline/strictness and his expectations and demands, none of his children went to prison. None are messed up on drugs. Those that wanted to attended and graduated from college. They are all hardworking, law abiding productive human beings.
In my opinion Joe Jackson and my grandfather are a lot alike. Papa didn't take no mess.
Remember this if/when you watch Joe Jackson on Larry King tonight.
Daisy Kingston
This still doesn't explain why Joe teased Michael about his appearance. My daddy may have been strict with me, but he NEVER made fun of my nose, or my hair, or my skin color. He ALWAYS told me I was beautiful. Even when I didn't believe him.
What Joe did to Michael was physical and emotional abuse. There's no excusing it in my book.
Bianca45
Are you implying Joe made fun of Michael's hair or skin color? Because he didn't. He only made fun of his nose and his adolescent acne.
whiterosebuddy
"This still doesn't explain why Joe teased Michael about his appearance. My daddy may have been strict with me, but he NEVER made fun of my nose, or my hair, or my skin color. He ALWAYS told me I was beautiful. Even when I didn't believe him."
I feel ya, and what you say is true, but you were blessed not all kids are. You have to remember, the Jacksons and particularly, Joe, came up AFTER I'm BLACK and PROUD was a belief in the black community.
That don't make Joe right. He was WRONG. ONEHUNDRED percent wrong, but he was a victim of his times. IN that time, black folks did not believe that blackness was pride and beauty...that was the entire POINT of AFROS it was a celebration of blackness...and the J5 wore them proudly.
So, Joe was a product of his times. Many black folks didn't believe we were ugly but FAR MANY more DID! It was terribly wrong, but perfectly understandble. NOT right. But it was not out of the NORM. Neither was spanking your kids and telling them how negroid features were not beautiful.'
James Brown, didn't make that song, cause black folks believed they were beautiful.
You may be to young to reMEMber the taunts...'you black get back' & the blacker the berry the sweeter juice but you get so black til you ain't no use'
along with the paper bag/blue vein tests.
Joe, was a product of his times. Even with all that internalized hate of blackness he SUCEEDED against the odds, and he was a stern taskmaster to ENSURE his children would succeed.
Daisy Kingston
At this point, I don't consider the Jacksons a success. Michael is dead under suspicious circumstances, and as Ladyvenoms pointed out in another post, the other siblings are having financial and family troubles of their own.
Lisa M
When my brown skin sistas sought to mock me because I'm light skinded they stopped at "the darker the berry the sweeter the juice." I never heard that last part.
whiterosebuddy
Yeah, baby...u got to know it ALL! Don't get killed knowing the refrain!
lol
AND ooops! "Joe, came up AFTER I'm BLACK and PROUD was a belief in the black community."
Should be BEFORE James Brown song. Those FROS were a symbol of BLACK PRIDE...never before in history had we been PROUD of our 'natural' hair.
Fried, dyed and laid to the side was the status quo.
Look at the old pics of black male singers/entertainers...let alone women like the Supremes with those wigs. Men had 'conk' but the women did NOT have perms/relaxers..then. That came later.
itgurl_29
I wish black people would stop defending Joe Jackson. He abused his children and exposed them to all kinds of things children have no business seeing, and there's long been rumors of him pimping out little Michael to businessmen on the road to make ends meet. He cavorted around with groupies in front of his kids and then they had to go home to their mother and keeps secrets about their father's girlfriends and the things they were exposed to on the road.
Oh, and not to mention he beat the hell out of his kids for missing a damn step or a turn or a note.
He's not some misunderstood noble black man from another generation. He's an abuser, period.
Don't compare him to your grandfather or other black men of that era who did right by their children but saw whoopings as the only way to discipline.
Lisa M
Thank you!!
itgurl_29
I wish black people would stop defending Joe Jackson. He abused his children and exposed them to all kinds of things children have no business seeing, and there's long been rumors of him pimping out little Michael to businessmen on the road to make ends meet. He cavorted around with groupies in front of his kids and then they had to go home to their mother and keeps secrets about their father's girlfriends and the things they were exposed to on the road.
Oh, and not to mention he beat the hell out of his kids for missing a damn step or a turn or a note.
He's not some misunderstood noble black man from another generation. He's an abuser, period.
Don't compare him to your grandfather or other black men of that era who did right by their children but saw whoopings as the only way to discipline.
I think for every whipped kid who SEEMS to have turned out ok, there are many more who got a whupping and destroyed their lives. Ass-whupping is not an antidote to self-destructiveness. In fact, beatings can lead to self-loathing. We frown on it when men hit women, but somehow it's ok when it's done to a child who has even fewer coping mechanisms than a grown woman?
I was having a discussion in another thread about kinky hair, and how black women are taught to hate themselves by whites. I think severe childhood punishment has more to do with contemporary black women not liking themselves.
Where do those ideas of the man being the head of the household come from? What about the idea of corporal punishment?...slave whippings to "correct" behaviour? They are modeled after the god of the bible. Harsh, judgmental, punitive...this god could give you life(provide) and in the next breath, take it away. The slave master was modeled after that vengeful god. Disciplinarian black fathers were modeled after both.
The idea that this pathology is for our benefit is the greatest insult of all. It implies that our natural human tendency is to do wrong..and that tendency must be beaten out of us.
whiterosebuddy
"Where do those ideas of the man being the head of the household come from? "
Um. the woman being the neck? And the head can't move without the neck.
carolinagirl
Fuck Joe "Who left the towel in the pool?" Jackson.
I won't be watching Joe Jackson on Larry King, and child abuse is child abuse. If you can't control that many kids without doing all of the stuff Joe and your Grandfather did, maybe you should consider giving them up for adoption. Joe Jackson is merely an opportunist, and when the opportunity struck to make money off of his kids he did. Spankings are fine, i got them, my brother got them, and we are both fine, but we didn't constantly live in fear of our father being frustrated for one reason or another and beating the crap out of us.
I'm curious, how many of the Jackson kids went to college? (I honestly don't know) And is it true that most of them really have nothing going for them right now?
Oh, and BTW, thanks to Tom Joyner, everytime I see a pic of Joe Jackson I'm going to think of Boris from Rocky and Bullwinkle. LOL!
Booky
If you can't control your kids give them up for adoption? Who is going to adopt some "uncontrollable kids"?
Who says Michael Jackson constantly lived in fear of his father?
None of Joe Jackson's kids went to college but they sure went to the bank.
Sepia
Who says Michael Jackson constantly lived in fear of his father?
Uh, Michael Jackson in his interview with Martin Bashir.
TruthSeeker
Did you see video of Michael at his trial wearing pajama pants? In that footage, Joe is walking alongside Michael...look closely at what happens. Joe keeps putting his arm out apparently to steady Michael; but, Michael seems to recoil from his father and never takes his arm. In fact, Mike reaches out and grips the arm or someone who looks like a bodyguard. He never takes his father's offered help. Come to think of it, it was clear just by looking, that Michael was cold toward his father, but Joe continues to offer the arm..almost as if he was conscious of how it would look to the cameras.
whiterosebuddy
PUHleeeze. Show me any teen, let alone grown child that wants to be seen let alone touched by their parent in public.
is that why Jermaine can't pay his child support or that Marlon and Randy are having financial issues? look, i'll give joe his due. he was mainly responsible for their success, but i can't give props to a man who popped his kids because they missed a dance step.
give 'em a smack upside the head if they take the car for a joyride? yes. give 'em a smack because they can't do the robot? naw.
whiterosebuddy
Well, if you pop your kid for bad table manners, for sassin' or just acting ignorant...what is the difference when it comes to success.
Folks hating on Joe is riDICulous. Joe, MADE MJ, withOUT his determination the J5 would have NEVA been success...folks who talk this stuff, didn't have anywhere near their success. Joe was fighting against incredible odds and he did what he knew WOULD make them successful.
Maybe, other methods would have been kinder, but most of the folks that talk this hate against Joe, have nowhere near the success of his kids or even Joe, himself at this point.
There is a balance, I agree, but the hate for JOE is disproportionate to what he achieved.
"Well, if you pop your kid for bad table manners, for sassin' or just acting ignorant...what is the difference when it comes to success."
some would say a pretty big difference. if a kid does something wrong that hurts themselves or others, then yes they should be punished--but what's disrespectful about missing the chord to "never can say goodbye"?
i can't bring myself to say i hate joe because i don't know the man, but he literally made my behind itch when he started talking about his record label during the press conference right after mike's death.
jennifer aniston would at least say joe was missing his sensitivity chip.
whiterosebuddy
"but what's disrespectful about missing the chord to "never can say goodbye"?"
It was PUBLIC, no different than your kid not knowing how to hold a fork, at a state dinner or major honorary dinner...both behaviors demonstrate a lack of talent and worse...lack of HOME training....manners MATTER, and so does the RIGHT chord when you are striving to be the BEST...there are no excuses for mistakes..you GOT to be EXEMPLARY whether it is the right chord or how to hold your folk CORRECTLY. Remember, the J5 were FIRSTS! They got no benefit of the doubt, as all black trailblazers don't. JOe wanted them to be the best, and wrong chords ain;t the best!!
As my momma use to say. practice unitl your good is better and your better is BEST!! That is the measure of success...nothing else.
What black woman you know with avg talents and avg looks like Aniston can achieve her comparable fame and income? Name one.
nia long, vivica fox and latifah, along with kim fielsds, and terry washington should make as much money ...If ALL was EQUALl
Okay...you just took my aniston joke and made a whole whiterosebuddy tangent, and missing the point entirely.
1). you can teach a child manners and give them home training without using a belt and being emotionally and verbally abusive.
2). the jacksons were enormously talented but they were also CHILDREN. children should be allowed to make mistakes without fear of being beaten or worse.
3). regardless of where i pulled my quote from, the simple truth is this: joe was wrong as two left shoes for hawking his wares when the rest of the country was mourning his son's death. period.
whiterosebuddy
LV, I don't know what genration you grew up in but parents of kids in the 50s-70s came up withthe slavery mentality that were the vestiges of 12 generations of slavery. So when you say:
"1). you can teach a child manners and give them home training without using a belt and being emotionally and verbally abusive. 2). the jacksons were enormously talented but they were also CHILDREN. children should be allowed to make mistakes without fear of being beaten or worse."
That is not their reality. We came from folks who when you did not listen YOU DIED we used belts and verbal abuse. OUR children were subjected to verbal abuse by WHITES, if they did not learn how to deal with that in their HOMES they were lynched, beaten and killed. So, to experience that at all SAVED you from the white man's abuse. It made you RESILENT. You could listen to their verbal abuse because it was not as bad as not listening to your momma and daddy.
Don't make it right, BUT it does say, that 'abuse' was love. It HELPED you. You were not stooopid enough to expect some benefit of the doubt. Racism was not TAUGHT as an overall pervasive OPPRESSION. What was taught was that if you did your BEST you could succeed. And therefore, punishment for not doing so was APPROPRIATE. AND the black PARENT KNEW, no excuses would be accepted.
So, as much as I agree with you. Joe did the best he could. I do NOT agree with his METHODS, but I do know that HIS methods of punishment for failing to be the best WERE essential to their success.
Today, we have more latitude. NOT all the J5 had a fear of success...Jackie, Tito and Marlon, & Germaine...did NOT have the same character outcomes. Michaels spirit was different. He could not handle that...but that is the challenge for ALL parents, EACH child's spirit is different. But as parents we do not get a handbook. NONE of the J5 other than Michael speak of Joe like Michael did. Don't mean Michael was wrong but it does mean JOe wasn't ALL bad.
i'm sorry but i can't get with the blanket explanation that the reason why my grandma got her ass beat was because it was solely a throw over from slavery. it wasn't. my great grandmother has some serious mental issues which she passed on to her daughter which she then she passed on to us. The white man didn't have anything to do with these women having children they weren't mentally equipped to take care of, just like mr. charlie didn't have anything to do with joe seeing his flock of children as the golden tickets to get him out of gary, ind. btw, a lot of white kids in that generation got their asses beat too, so what's the explanation for that? but the real point here is that it doesn't matter how society looked on the disciplinary actions of black fathers back then. the fact is that michael HIMSELF said that he was abused. janet has talked about her issues with her father. even latoya (whether you believe her or not) said that joe wasn't the best daddy. they knew him better than all of us, and if they felt like his treatment of them was detrimental to their well being why shouldn't we take their word for it? is joe ultimately a success because only 6 of his nine children survived growing up relatively unscathed?
whiterosebuddy
"i'm sorry but i can't get with the blanket explanation that the reason why my grandma got her ass beat was because it was solely a throw over from slavery."
Why not? Particularly given:
"my great grandmother has some serious mental issues which she passed on to her daughter which she then she passed on to us. "
Seems to me you are affirming my point. Racism is taught. Just like the vestiges of slavery weretaught to us.
"The white man didn't have anything to do with these women having children they weren't mentally equipped to take care of,"
Sure they did. They were often times the fathers that sold them away.
"mr. charlie didn't have anything to do with joe seeing his flock of children as the golden tickets to get him out of gary"
O yes he did! that was the whole point. Joe was a product of generations of oppresion on mr. charlie's terms.
"a lot of white kids in that generation got their asses beat too, so what's the explanation for that?"
And? all you are doing is affirming that is socially acceptable. And affirming that ours may have been worse..given the societal demands.Joe competed on the terms that were set by society and he did what he knew would make his kids a success GIVEN those terms.
"the fact is that michael HIMSELF said that he was abused. janet has talked about her issues with her father. even latoya "
And? your point is what? Jackie, Tito, Jermaine, Marlon and Reba didn't! So if it's a numbers game, more of his children didn't than did.
"joe ultimately a success because only 6 of his nine children survived growing up relatively unscathed?"
NO. Joe is a success in that he succeeded against incredible odds. He was a pioneer, trailblazing BEFORE the civil rights moverment made possible the success of a Beyonce today.
"Seems to me you are affirming my point. Racism is taught. Just like the vestiges of slavery weretaught to us."
how so? are you saying that all psychological pathology within the black community can be attributed to slavery and racism? UH..no. no and no.
"And? all you are doing is affirming that is socially acceptable. And affirming that ours may have been worse..given the societal demands.Joe competed on the terms that were set by society and he did what he knew would make his kids a success GIVEN those terms."
no i'm not. YOU ARE. child abuse cuts across all racial, generational, class, and religious lines.
"And? your point is what? Jackie, Tito, Jermaine, Marlon and Reba didn't! So if it's a numbers game, more of his children didn't than did."
and that's okay? because mike grew up hating how he looked, messing his face up, tearing up whenever he talked about his relationship with his father, and ultimately cutting the man out of his life and tito didn't, joe should get a cookie?
"NO. Joe is a success in that he succeeded against incredible odds. He was a pioneer, trailblazing BEFORE the civil rights moverment made possible the success of a Beyonce today"
huh? joe's a civil rights icon now. matt knowles followed in his footsteps you say?
i refuse...you have a good night and god bless.
whiterosebuddy
"are you saying that all psychological pathology within the black community can be attributed to slavery and racism?
Yes.Yes. O HELL YESS . When it comes to racism and oppresion and how to deal with and overcome it?! We teach our kids what we KNOW based on our experience to make them a success,. Good, better BEST is what we KNEW!! nothing else TRUMPED racism.!
"joe's a civil rights icon now. matt knowles followed in his footsteps you say?"
NO, that is a glittering generality. He is no icon. But truth is...he succeeded in a time when MANY failed! Don't make him an icon, but it does say he earns respect for what he DID achieve with his kids, during his ERA. WithOUT that success Matthew, would have had to BE more.AND different. He didn't have to b as harsh cause JOE blazed the trail b4 him i.e. Knowles barriers were no where near as high..
Damn, don't you believe we STAND on the SHOULDERS of those who went b4 us? We don't have to blaze the trail they did cause someone else made it easier.
But in the 60s JOE did what he HAD to do, and the kids that were a success and do not demonize him are PROOF of that!!
"no i'm not. YOU ARE. child abuse cuts across all racial, generational, class, and religious lines."
NO. I am not affirming.I didn't affirm. I explained how and why. Don't mean it is right. But is DOEs mean, it is what he KNEW. And especially what he KNEW meant the differerence between success and failure. And no JOe should not get a cookie, but he should NOT be demonized for what he underSTOOD was the path to success,.
God Bless and peace to u.
as well
NIte
TruthSeeker
LaToya keeps talking about how Mike was worth more to someone dead than alive... She doesn't seem to realize that for that theory to work, that person would have to benefit financially by his death. The people who'll benefit most are Katherine and Mike's siblings.
Joe also hit the jackpot in not having divorced Katherine.
RobM
I just finished w/ Gates story in WaPo and the Root. It explained the two guys report. There are pictures of his arrest. In the pictures are six cops. One frail looking 150lb 60+ old man. Gates go on in the WaPo story to say this, " His next project on race, he said, will be rooted in his arrest. "I hope to make a documentary about racial profiling for PBS," he said. "[The idea] had never crossed my mind but it has now."
He said the documentary will ask: "How are people treated when they are arrested? How does the criminal justice system work? How many black and brown men and poor white men are the victims of police officers who are carrying racist thoughts?
"I want to be a figure for prison reform. I think that criminal justice system is rotten.""
To me he should start w/ those two AA women not permitted to graduate from Harvard because of their association w/ men whom later turned into murderers on the campus. Karma is large numbers of things and looks like Gates met Karma yesterday.
I want to know this: who's the dumbass neighbor that called the police? dr. gates has been at harvard for a minute and i assume he's lived in that house just as long. you mean to tell me that gentrified jenny or gated community giselle NEVER noticed that a black man was living next door to them?
Racial Profiling is any police or private security practice in which a person is treated as a suspect because of his or her race, ethnicity, nationality or religion. This occurs when police investigate, stop, frisk, search or use force against a person based on such characteristics instead of evidence of a person's criminal behavior. It often involves the stopping and searching of people of color for traffic violations, known as "DWB" or "driving while black or brown." Although normally associated with African Americans and Latinos, racial profiling and "DWB" have also become shorthand phrases for police stops of Asians, Native Americans, and, increasingly after 9/11, Arabs, Muslims and South Asians.
metricpenny
Professor Gates' side of the story in The Washington Post today.
At the station, Gates was booked and fingerprinted. His belt, wallet and cane were taken away. For a while he was handcuffed to a window in the station and other officers took his vitals: name, address, social security number.
Are you kidding me??? This was totally uncalled for!
Gates was arrested Thursday at his home near Harvard University after trying to force open the locked front door. The charge of disorderly conduct was dropped this afternoon, the Cambridge police department said in a news release. The department called the arrest "regrettable and unfortunate."
"Regrettable and unfortunate"? Seriously? Just how inept IS that police department?
According to Gates's account, the officer refused to give it. The police report says, however, that the officer identified himself.
"I weigh 150 lbs and I'm 5' 7''. I'm going to give flack to a big white guy with a gun. I might wolf later, but I won't wolf then."
LOL@ that last statement, but I bet he's telling the truth
At the station, Gates was booked and fingerprinted. His belt, wallet and cane were taken away. For a while he was handcuffed to a window in the station and other officers took his vitals: name, address, social security number.
They handcuffed him to the window? The man needs a cane to get around, and they took that, where the hell was he going to go?
His next project on race, he said, will be rooted in his arrest. "I hope to make a documentary about racial profiling for PBS," he said. "[The idea] had never crossed my mind but it has now."
He said the documentary will ask: "How are people treated when they are arrested? How does the criminal justice system work? How many black and brown men and poor white men are the victims of police officers who are carrying racist thoughts?
LOL! Looks like whoever said his next lecture would be on N.W.A.'s "Fuck the Police" wasn't too far off!
Anywhoo, I think the truth is probably somewhere between what the officer said and what Gates said. You know the saying there are 3 sides to every story "A"'s side "B"'s Side, and the truth.
Miranda
He was taken to an interview room, where he was allowed to speak with his friend and lawyer Charles Ogletree, who also teaches at Harvard. Three other university colleagues also showed up and stayed in the interview room with Gates for four hours. He was then released on $40 bond.
4 friends, 4 hours, $40.....40 acres...40 days and 40 nights....speak to me Lord...whatcha trynna say?
msmartin
Oooh Miranda, this reminds me of my son. Whenever the number 40 was involved, whether straight up or by calculation, he always said it was the Lord's work.
Miranda
After reading Justice's post on down, I believe him! I knew there was something special about the number, but I didn't know the full background on why.
metricpenny
I'm on the same page Miranda. Allow me to continue:
Dr. King assassinated on 4/4/68 ... Barack Obama elected President on 11/4/08, 40 years later ... That's been roaming around in my head for months now.
However, the 7 month difference and the 11th month have me stymied. Until I googled it:
Numbers 7:11 - And the LORD said unto Moses, They shall offer their offering, each prince on his day, for the dedicating of the altar.
I know. I'm in too deep.
Justice58
Metricpenny, I might be in too deep also but..
What you think about this....
The number 7= The number of God or divine perfection The number 40= The number of testing & trial
a. It rained 40 days during the flood b. Moses spent 40 years in the desert c. Israel spied out the land for 40 days d. Moses spent 40 days on Mount Sinai e. Israel wandered 40 years in the desert f. Goliath taunted Israel for 40 days g. Jonah preached repentance to Nineveh for 40 days h. Jesus spent 40 days in the wilderness before being tempted i. There are 40 days between the resurrection and ascension of Christ
metricpenny
What do I think? I think I got some lottery numbers. LOL!
And don't nobody mention a 40 ounce ....
RobM
No mention of 40 ouncers. They're going to send you to the bad chair.
I didn't catch that 4 HOURS before. Then released on $40 bond.
The driver then left. Gates said he would later find out that a neighbor called to report two black men wearing backpacks were breaking into his house.
Sooo....if the house is owned by Harvard - are the other houses surrounding Prof. Gates' home also owned by Harvard?
Did they know Gates lived there and didn't REALIZE that Gates was the man at the door. And wasn't the cab outside?
And if the charges were dropped today - then what was the fucking point?
Ya know what - bottom line - I'm not getting WHY once Prof. Gates showed both IDs (drivers license & Harvard ID) why the fucking cop didn't leave. Yeah - I understand Gates might've been irritated and annoyed. I'd be irritated and annoyed at the kind of shit (the front door not working, going around to the back door, unjamming the front door, etc) too - not to mention having just returned from China (a long ass plane ride).
[Digression: Remnants of my 60s 'life' - can hardly take the police, even having them come in thru our ER every day, I just can't take 'me. Firefighters are another WHOLE different story.]
Miranda
It was a car service and the guy was in uniform. This was a little after lunchtime.....I'm trying to picture the scene and I honestly dont know what made her think she was witnessing a potential break-in given the age of the men, the clothes..the so-called getaway car and the big suitcases on the porch.
spirit_55z
I really do believe Professor Gates was set up by someone at Harvard.
That number 40 shows up a lot in biblical imagery.
morphus
The U.S. Senate yesterday passed an amendment extending the death penalty for certain hate crimes. The amendment, sponsored by Senator Jeff Sessions (R-AL), was added to the hate crimes amendment to the Defense authorization bill that passed last Thursday. In a letter sent to Senators, the American Civil Liberties Union urged lawmakers to oppose this misguided and wrong expansion of the federal death penalty.
“The expansion of the federal death penalty stands in stark contrast to furthering the cause of civil rights in the United States,” said Christopher Anders, ACLU Senior Legislative Counsel. “The death penalty is always wrong. Capital punishment has been proven to be such an expensive and discriminatory punishment that Congress should oppose any effort to expand its scope and reach. At a time when evidence is mounting that scores of innocent defendants have been sentenced to death, Congress should steer clear of expanding the death penalty."
Problems, such as inadequate defense counsel and racial disparities, have always plagued the death penalty system in the United States. According to the Death Penalty Information Center, 135 innocent people have been exonerated from death row since 1973, including five so far in 2009 alone.
In addition to this death penalty amendment, the ACLU also did not support the underlying hate crime provision in the defense authorization bill which would have a chilling effect on free speech and association. The U.S. House of Representatives has a welcome version of the hate crimes bill that protects speech and association as well as gives the federal government new authority to prosecute certain violent acts based on race, color, national origin, religion, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity and disability.
Session's Death Penalty Amendment is a poison pill.
This is NOT good. If republicans are so "pro-life" why do they keep finding new reasons to put people to death? the death penalty is a terrible thing, and those who "deserve" the death penalty clearly aren't deterred by the possibility. And I'm quite sure the LAST thing on Sessions' mind is stopping hate crimes considering who he is.
morphus
Wonder if the GLBT community is willing to swallow this bitter pill to get the hate crime bill passed?
spirit_55z
July 20, 2009 6:57 PM Motown Magic Sues Willkie Farr for Fraud, Breach of Contract by Brian Baxter
Willkie Farr & Gallagher was sued in federal court in Los Angeles last week by Lamont Dozier, the cofounder of songwriting and production team Holland-Dozier-Holland, which was behind hit Motown acts like The Supremes and The Isley Brothers. At issue: Willkie's role advising on an issuance of Bowie Bonds, the asset-backed security for song royalties sometimes called Pullman Bonds because they were popularized by the banker David Pullman, now chairman and CEO of The Pullman Group in New York. Bowie Bonds took the market by storm in 1997 when Pullman helped securitize future royalties from 300 David Bowie songs, including There is more
S.C. case looks on child obesity as child abuse. But is it?
Jerri Gray was doing all she could to help her son lose weight, her attorney says. But something had gone terribly wrong for the boy to hit the 555-pound mark by age 14. Authorities in South Carolina say that what went wrong was Gray's care and feeding of her son, Alexander Draper. Gray, 49, of Travelers Rest, S.C., was arrested in June and charged with criminal neglect. Alexander is now in foster care. The case has attracted national attention. With childhood obesity on the rise across the USA, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Gray's attorney says it could open the door to more criminal action against parents whose children have become dangerously overweight.
"If she's found guilty on those criminal charges, you have set a precedent that opens Pandora's box," Grant Varner says. "Where do you go next?" State courts in Texas, Pennsylvania, New York, New Mexico, Indiana and California have grappled with the question in recent years, according to a 2008 report published by the Child Welfare League of America.
In all of those cases, except the one in California, courts expanded their state's legal definition of medical neglect to include morbid obesity and ruled that the children were victims of neglect, the report says. Criminal charges were filed only in the California and Indiana cases, but the parents weren't sentenced to jail time in either.
If that's the case, I hope they arrested all of those parents going on Oprah and other shows with their severely overweight kids talking about they just don't know how to deny the child food. When I was a kid, if my parents didn't want me to have something they had no problem saying 'no'. Hell, we even had to ask if we could have Kool-Aid.
whiterosebuddy
Obesity is about emotions. ARe they claiming emotional abuse?
morphus
Agreed. There is some of that going on. Today, someone was telling me about a three-year who would not eat if the food wasn't from McDs. That's a problem. But, personally, I would stretch lil johnny to his limits to change his preferences.
morphus
This case is sad. There are little to no controls of what goes into our food that aids obesity, yet again, responsibility is transferred to the consumer.
President Barack Obama says his daughters proved to be "great travelers" on the family's visit to Russia and they're fitting right in — even at the Kremlin.
"Sasha was walking down one of the halls of the Kremlin yesterday," Obama told ABC on Tuesday. "She had her trench coat on, had her pockets in her trench coat." The president joked that he and his wife had taken to calling their 8-year-old daughter "Agent 99."
"She just looked like she knew where she was going," Obama said. "I thought she was going to pull out her shoe phone."
Okay, if Sotomayor is going to be confirmed easily, why the hell are the republicans stalling? And why the hell are the Democrats letting them? Sometimes I really hate the Senate.
WASHINGTON — The Senate Judiciary Committee has put off its vote on Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor (SOHN'-ya soh-toh-my-YOR') for one week after Republicans asked for a delay.
Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy says the vote will occur on July 28. The Vermont Democrat says he's disappointed the GOP held up the committee's action, but predicts Sotomayor will join the Supreme Court in time for an earlier-than-usual first meeting on Sept 9.
Alabama Sen. Jeff Sessions, the senior Judiciary Committee Republican, says President Barack Obama's first high court nominee is on track to be confirmed in early August – a slightly faster timetable than GOP-nominated Chief Justice John Roberts.
WASHINGTON — The Senate voted Tuesday to halt production of the Air Force's missile-eluding F-22 Raptor fighter jets in a high-stakes, veto-laden showdown over President Barack Obama's efforts to shift defense spending to a next generation of smaller, single-engine F-35 Joint Strike Fighters.
The 58-40 vote reflected an all-out lobbying campaign by the Obama administration, which had to overcome resistance from lawmakers confronted with the losses of defense-related jobs if the F-22 program is terminated.
Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., said it was "probably the most impactful amendment that I have seen in this body on almost any issue." He said it was "about whether we will stop doing business as usual, and that is continuing to fund weapons systems that are no longer needed."
The vote removed $1.75 billion set aside in a $680 billion defense policy bill to build seven more F-22 Raptors, adding to the 187 stealth technology fighters already being built.
The Senate action also saved Obama from what could have been a political embarrassment. He had urged the Senate to strip out the money and threatened what would be the first veto of his presidency if the F-22 money remained in the defense bill.
Immediately after the vote, Obama told reporters at the White House the Senate's decision will "better protect our troops."
[snip]
Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said Tuesday that spending on the stealth fighter would "inhibit our ability to buy things we do need," including Gates' proposal to add 22,000 soldiers to the Army.
"I've never seen the White House lobby like they've lobbied on this issue," said Republican Saxby Chambliss of Georgia, whose state would be hit hard by a shutdown of F-22 operations.
Supporters of the program cited both the importance of the F-22 to U.S. security interests – pointing out that China and Russia are developing planes that can compete with the F-22 – and the need to protect aerospace jobs in a bad economy.
[snip]
Gates and other Pentagon officials have determined that production of the F-22, which is designed for combat in a war where the enemy has an air force and has not been used in Iraq and Afghanistan, should be stopped at 187 planes in order to focus on the F-35, a smaller next-generation plane that would also be available to the Navy and Marine Corp.
Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, countered that the F-35 is designed to supplement, not replace, the F-22, "the "Nascar racer of this air dominance team." Supporters of the F-22 have put the number of F-22s needed at anywhere from 250 to 380.
According to Lockheed Martin Corp., the main contractor, 25,000 people are directly employed in building the plane, and another 70,000 have indirect links, particularly in Georgia, Texas and California.
Hmm, so I guess THIS won't be his "Waterloo" that the Republicans are praying for.
While it's sad that people may lose jobs, we don't need to keep wasting money on stuff we don't even need.
Defense cuts are always "sad"...until the cut systems become necessary, or less expensive to build than the current ones are to maintain.
Like I said on the other thread, I think the only reason they want the F-35 is to sell it. It's as equally unproven in combat as the F-22, so that argument's null.
djchefron
Why do we need the F-22?The F-15 is still the best fighter in the world and combined with AWACS we still would have air superiority.
I'm an -18 fan myself, especially the Super Hornets.
I said earlier today that we probably don't need it, as the -15/-16/-18 are still more than capable. The loss of jobs (or rather, the location of jobs to be lost) is what's driving this one.
karlewis
F15 is being retired. We need the F22 we just don't need the same amount as F15s.
Not true either, though it makes for a good talking point, and goes back to what I said earlier.
F-22, F-35, DDG-1000, and the Army's Future Combat Systems program (which is being cut and I'm not defending) were all designed around-at least in part-fighting the massive Soviet army in the Cold War...which didn't happen.
We're rebuilding our counterinsurgency knowledge, and with that will come new systems like MRAP. That program's currently worth at least $5 billion, and it was rushed into service for OIF.
To fight North Korea, we'd probably need to upgrade our missile defense capabilities. Another $2-3 billion, minimum (and Aegis, a naval "cold war-era weapons system) will figure heavily into that conflict).
It's all about the war you're fighting at the time...not who starts them and why. The need is no less in peacetime. Might be more so, so you're not rushed to production (MRAPs had a huge rollover problem when they were first introduced in Iraq).
You HONESTLY think we'd be spending the SAME amount of money on the Military if we didn't have to pay for the Iraq War? I seriously doubt it. And if we'd stop sticking our noses in EVERYONE else's business we'd have a lot less to worry about.
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