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	<title>Comments on: Wells Fargo, Subprime Loans and Mud People</title>
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	<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/wells-fargo-subprime-loans-and-mud-people/</link>
	<description>A black bourgeoisie perspective on U.S. politics</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 12:45:56 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: sweetneke</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/wells-fargo-subprime-loans-and-mud-people/comment-page-1/#comment-258366</link>
		<dc:creator>sweetneke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12075#comment-258366</guid>
		<description>i think that all of u r missing the point these banks have targeted our communities and yes we should have been more viginate but to blame our black churches and travis and others are we losing our minds because we have a blk president. We had blk ceo&#039;s of these company&#039;s fannie mae remember they should have educated our communities about home ownership it has only been in the last few years that blacks could afford home loans and come to find out we were ripped off on the the type of loans that was marketed to our communities. I think we should all get behind the naacp subprime lawsuit and hold these banks accountable to our communities this is one of the single most important issuses right now to save our community because we are at risk of not even having one because if we all lose our homes what do we have to offer our children think blk people without housing we will all be in projects again and our school system as poor as it is will get worse our children won&#039;t have a foundation barack needs to do something he is supposed to have been a community organizer and knows what is effecting our community well he should damn well realize this is the single most issuse that will destroy us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think that all of u r missing the point these banks have targeted our communities and yes we should have been more viginate but to blame our black churches and travis and others are we losing our minds because we have a blk president. We had blk ceo&#39;s of these company&#39;s fannie mae remember they should have educated our communities about home ownership it has only been in the last few years that blacks could afford home loans and come to find out we were ripped off on the the type of loans that was marketed to our communities. I think we should all get behind the naacp subprime lawsuit and hold these banks accountable to our communities this is one of the single most important issuses right now to save our community because we are at risk of not even having one because if we all lose our homes what do we have to offer our children think blk people without housing we will all be in projects again and our school system as poor as it is will get worse our children won&#39;t have a foundation barack needs to do something he is supposed to have been a community organizer and knows what is effecting our community well he should damn well realize this is the single most issuse that will destroy us.</p>
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		<title>By: Plantsmantx</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/wells-fargo-subprime-loans-and-mud-people/comment-page-1/#comment-214951</link>
		<dc:creator>Plantsmantx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 21:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12075#comment-214951</guid>
		<description>:). I&#039;m sure neither you nor I want to do this, but we could easily get on a merry-go-round of me pointing out that you&#039;re stereotyping, you denying it and stereotyping some more in the process, then me pointing out that you&#039;re stereoty...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>:). I&#39;m sure neither you nor I want to do this, but we could easily get on a merry-go-round of me pointing out that you&#39;re stereotyping, you denying it and stereotyping some more in the process, then me pointing out that you&#39;re stereoty&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: TruthSeeker</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/wells-fargo-subprime-loans-and-mud-people/comment-page-1/#comment-214894</link>
		<dc:creator>TruthSeeker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 18:54:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12075#comment-214894</guid>
		<description>Was I stereotyping, or making note of what is?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;On the surface, casting a wider net would seem to be profitable.  However, there would not be the same return on investment.  The key to the scam perhaps, is a community that is insular, embattled and trained to respect and trust clergy.   You have those things in the black community.   Add to that, the fact that it&#039;s mostly black women who go to churches.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Women are prime targets for financial scams.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The other day on Wolf Blitzer&#039;s show, he had on a former DA who was Sotomayor&#039;s former boss.  In discussing the race issue, he mentioned that it was considered conventional wisdom not to choose black women for juries because they were thought to be &quot;unsophisticated&quot;.   He went on to give an anecdote to suggest that that was not true.  But it shows how blacks are seen, and how black women are seen.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Women are victimized, generally....black women are victimized many times more.   The church is the prime mechanism for victimization.  Church talk of woman being made for the man.   Black women feeling that they are unloved because of the low marriage rates, and being reminded constantly that they are not complete without a man...don&#039;t do anything to bolster their esteem.    What you have is a captive community of women, who feel bad about their condition, who are not encouraged to seek out credible information, who are told that prayer can solve all ills....&lt;br&gt;Every scam needs a hook...and I think this is the hook.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Religion reinforces helplessness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Was I stereotyping, or making note of what is?</p>
<p>On the surface, casting a wider net would seem to be profitable.  However, there would not be the same return on investment.  The key to the scam perhaps, is a community that is insular, embattled and trained to respect and trust clergy.   You have those things in the black community.   Add to that, the fact that it&#39;s mostly black women who go to churches.</p>
<p>Women are prime targets for financial scams.</p>
<p>The other day on Wolf Blitzer&#39;s show, he had on a former DA who was Sotomayor&#39;s former boss.  In discussing the race issue, he mentioned that it was considered conventional wisdom not to choose black women for juries because they were thought to be &#8220;unsophisticated&#8221;.   He went on to give an anecdote to suggest that that was not true.  But it shows how blacks are seen, and how black women are seen.</p>
<p>Women are victimized, generally&#8230;.black women are victimized many times more.   The church is the prime mechanism for victimization.  Church talk of woman being made for the man.   Black women feeling that they are unloved because of the low marriage rates, and being reminded constantly that they are not complete without a man&#8230;don&#39;t do anything to bolster their esteem.    What you have is a captive community of women, who feel bad about their condition, who are not encouraged to seek out credible information, who are told that prayer can solve all ills&#8230;.<br />Every scam needs a hook&#8230;and I think this is the hook.</p>
<p>Religion reinforces helplessness.</p>
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		<title>By: Plantsmantx</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/wells-fargo-subprime-loans-and-mud-people/comment-page-1/#comment-214891</link>
		<dc:creator>Plantsmantx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 18:24:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12075#comment-214891</guid>
		<description>The point I was trying to make is that you were stereotyping just as much as Wells Fargo.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;Financial Institutions like Wells Fargo are no fools when it comes to their bottom lines. They do only what WORKS.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Well, as I mentioned before, casting a wider net and pushing these loans onto whites as enthusiastically as they pushed them onto blacks would have WORKED even better in terms of making them even more money, but they didn&#039;t do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point I was trying to make is that you were stereotyping just as much as Wells Fargo.</p>
<p>&#8220;Financial Institutions like Wells Fargo are no fools when it comes to their bottom lines. They do only what WORKS.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, as I mentioned before, casting a wider net and pushing these loans onto whites as enthusiastically as they pushed them onto blacks would have WORKED even better in terms of making them even more money, but they didn&#39;t do that.</p>
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		<title>By: TruthSeeker</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/wells-fargo-subprime-loans-and-mud-people/comment-page-1/#comment-214886</link>
		<dc:creator>TruthSeeker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 18:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12075#comment-214886</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t doubt that you haven&#039;t heard YOUR pastor perhaps, say those words.   Think of the personal counseling that many pastors do...   Is it inconceivable that pastors may drop the name of a particular institution to a member of the flock.  Imagine a couple seeking counsel from a pastor privately regarding decisions like home ownership.  Imagine that pastor encouraging them to avail themselves of certain loans.  Imagine the banks representatives already having met with that pastor.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Congregations - generally speaking - are not primed to be &quot;independent&quot; about anything.   In religion, independence is discouraged.  It is belonging to the group that is encouraged.   Terrance posted about an occasion where gay men in the congregation found themselves responding to an anti-gay alter call!   That is an example of arm-twisting to belong to the group.   Pastors have automatic authority over their congregants lives...very dangerous.    A trusted pastor, a fellow African American who makes it seem to a couple that buying a house is like buying milk, will cause that couple to ignore any natural misgivings they might have.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Think Bernie Madoff.   It was other Jews who recommended his services to their friends and relatives...He&#039;s ok, he&#039;s &quot;one of us&quot;.  I can absolutely imagine a congregant telling a trusted pastor their financial situation during personal counseling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#39;t doubt that you haven&#39;t heard YOUR pastor perhaps, say those words.   Think of the personal counseling that many pastors do&#8230;   Is it inconceivable that pastors may drop the name of a particular institution to a member of the flock.  Imagine a couple seeking counsel from a pastor privately regarding decisions like home ownership.  Imagine that pastor encouraging them to avail themselves of certain loans.  Imagine the banks representatives already having met with that pastor.</p>
<p>Congregations &#8211; generally speaking &#8211; are not primed to be &#8220;independent&#8221; about anything.   In religion, independence is discouraged.  It is belonging to the group that is encouraged.   Terrance posted about an occasion where gay men in the congregation found themselves responding to an anti-gay alter call!   That is an example of arm-twisting to belong to the group.   Pastors have automatic authority over their congregants lives&#8230;very dangerous.    A trusted pastor, a fellow African American who makes it seem to a couple that buying a house is like buying milk, will cause that couple to ignore any natural misgivings they might have.</p>
<p>Think Bernie Madoff.   It was other Jews who recommended his services to their friends and relatives&#8230;He&#39;s ok, he&#39;s &#8220;one of us&#8221;.  I can absolutely imagine a congregant telling a trusted pastor their financial situation during personal counseling.</p>
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		<title>By: TruthSeeker</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/wells-fargo-subprime-loans-and-mud-people/comment-page-1/#comment-214880</link>
		<dc:creator>TruthSeeker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:58:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12075#comment-214880</guid>
		<description>Wells Fargo employees were targeting black churches, says so in the post.   You have that other part backward:  I was vaguely aware of the targeting of black churches first.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The pastors would push home ownership and perhaps &quot;drop&quot; the name of a particular institution that had approached him previously.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Your not hearing of something doesn&#039;t negate the reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wells Fargo employees were targeting black churches, says so in the post.   You have that other part backward:  I was vaguely aware of the targeting of black churches first.</p>
<p>The pastors would push home ownership and perhaps &#8220;drop&#8221; the name of a particular institution that had approached him previously.</p>
<p>Your not hearing of something doesn&#39;t negate the reality.</p>
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		<title>By: littlebrownjen</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/wells-fargo-subprime-loans-and-mud-people/comment-page-1/#comment-214708</link>
		<dc:creator>littlebrownjen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 04:59:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12075#comment-214708</guid>
		<description>The thing is, folks forget the power of psychology... These aren&#039;t lenders, they&#039;re SALES PEOPLE. And if someone is trying to sell you something, they&#039;ll use any tactic... everyone has their price.. These lenders abused trust and promised folks the impossible was just in their reach instead of showing them the practical...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;Wells Fargo, Ms. Jacobson said in an interview, saw the black community as fertile ground for subprime mortgages, as working-class blacks were hungry to be a part of the nation’s home-owning mania.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This is the most telling quote in the article for me..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing is, folks forget the power of psychology&#8230; These aren&#39;t lenders, they&#39;re SALES PEOPLE. And if someone is trying to sell you something, they&#39;ll use any tactic&#8230; everyone has their price.. These lenders abused trust and promised folks the impossible was just in their reach instead of showing them the practical&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;Wells Fargo, Ms. Jacobson said in an interview, saw the black community as fertile ground for subprime mortgages, as working-class blacks were hungry to be a part of the nation’s home-owning mania.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is the most telling quote in the article for me..</p>
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		<title>By: Town</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/wells-fargo-subprime-loans-and-mud-people/comment-page-1/#comment-214574</link>
		<dc:creator>Town</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 00:17:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12075#comment-214574</guid>
		<description>Which churches were pushing bad loans?  I realize you have a problem with &quot;church&quot; in general and leap in joy anytime anything bad is associated with a church, but I have yet to hear of a church telling a congregation to bank and get loans from Wells Fargo or any other bank.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which churches were pushing bad loans?  I realize you have a problem with &#8220;church&#8221; in general and leap in joy anytime anything bad is associated with a church, but I have yet to hear of a church telling a congregation to bank and get loans from Wells Fargo or any other bank.</p>
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		<title>By: Val</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/wells-fargo-subprime-loans-and-mud-people/comment-page-1/#comment-214565</link>
		<dc:creator>Val</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 23:54:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12075#comment-214565</guid>
		<description>Truth - I have NEVER heard a pastor tell it&#039;s congregation what type of loan to take out.  Never heard it so . . . I can understand that is what the mortgage company &quot;thought&quot; but that has never happened to my knowledge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Truth &#8211; I have NEVER heard a pastor tell it&#39;s congregation what type of loan to take out.  Never heard it so . . . I can understand that is what the mortgage company &#8220;thought&#8221; but that has never happened to my knowledge.</p>
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		<title>By: TruthSeeker</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/wells-fargo-subprime-loans-and-mud-people/comment-page-1/#comment-214379</link>
		<dc:creator>TruthSeeker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:20:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12075#comment-214379</guid>
		<description>Tavis is a different type of pastor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tavis is a different type of pastor.</p>
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		<title>By: TruthSeeker</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/wells-fargo-subprime-loans-and-mud-people/comment-page-1/#comment-214352</link>
		<dc:creator>TruthSeeker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12075#comment-214352</guid>
		<description>The Churches(pastors) had influence with their congregations, which were primarily black.   Whether it was a &quot;knowing&quot; that the loans were poison, or just a laziness to check the facts..I don&#039;t know.   The black pastors wouldn&#039;t have influence with whites who were not part of their congregation.  Possibly, those pastors received &lt;i&gt;donations&lt;/i&gt; for their influence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Churches(pastors) had influence with their congregations, which were primarily black.   Whether it was a &#8220;knowing&#8221; that the loans were poison, or just a laziness to check the facts..I don&#39;t know.   The black pastors wouldn&#39;t have influence with whites who were not part of their congregation.  Possibly, those pastors received <i>donations</i> for their influence.</p>
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		<title>By: TruthSeeker</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/wells-fargo-subprime-loans-and-mud-people/comment-page-1/#comment-214347</link>
		<dc:creator>TruthSeeker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:50:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12075#comment-214347</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;&quot;“Wells Fargo mortgage had an emerging-markets unit that specifically targeted black churches, because it figured church leaders had a lot of influence and could convince congregants to take out subprime loans.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br&gt;That I find chilling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><i>&#8220;“Wells Fargo mortgage had an emerging-markets unit that specifically targeted black churches, because it figured church leaders had a lot of influence and could convince congregants to take out subprime loans.”</i></p></blockquote>
<p>&gt;<br />That I find chilling.</p>
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		<title>By: Val</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/wells-fargo-subprime-loans-and-mud-people/comment-page-1/#comment-214337</link>
		<dc:creator>Val</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:16:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12075#comment-214337</guid>
		<description>Well we know the market fluctuates and there were clear signs that the market would bottom out sooner rather than later.  That initial buyer probably got caught up in the downturn on the economy and as a result the prices on homes dropped.  It doesnt mean the appraisal was incorrect.  It could indicate that the buyers purchased a home they could not afford.  Homes can appreciate in value in a period of two years depending on location, the economy and other factors. I am saying this because you can check the appraisal price on any home and get close to the pin on the market value using independent sources and online tools and the value would almost match the value indicated by the banks so I wouldn&#039;t necessarily say that they loaned out money on an inflated housing price.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We bought a house in about 2006 and at the time the market value was $883K based on the bank appraisal, my own research, and reviewing home prices in the area over the period of a few years and I used online tools to check home prices in the area and compared it to similar homes in other areas.  When the market dropped drastically in 2007 - 2009 the estimated value of our home fluctuated up and down from base price $565K to $830K.  Luckily we will be here for at least another 7 years until the kids graduate high school so we can wait it out.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I get the responsibility of the lenders and agree that they should be held accountable by the government.  It is just that the dialogue around this issue was more around these &quot;poor victims&quot; who accepted a loan they knew was not in their best interest.  That is what I wanted to address. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Congrats on your homeownership. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well we know the market fluctuates and there were clear signs that the market would bottom out sooner rather than later.  That initial buyer probably got caught up in the downturn on the economy and as a result the prices on homes dropped.  It doesnt mean the appraisal was incorrect.  It could indicate that the buyers purchased a home they could not afford.  Homes can appreciate in value in a period of two years depending on location, the economy and other factors. I am saying this because you can check the appraisal price on any home and get close to the pin on the market value using independent sources and online tools and the value would almost match the value indicated by the banks so I wouldn&#39;t necessarily say that they loaned out money on an inflated housing price.  </p>
<p>We bought a house in about 2006 and at the time the market value was $883K based on the bank appraisal, my own research, and reviewing home prices in the area over the period of a few years and I used online tools to check home prices in the area and compared it to similar homes in other areas.  When the market dropped drastically in 2007 &#8211; 2009 the estimated value of our home fluctuated up and down from base price $565K to $830K.  Luckily we will be here for at least another 7 years until the kids graduate high school so we can wait it out.</p>
<p>I get the responsibility of the lenders and agree that they should be held accountable by the government.  It is just that the dialogue around this issue was more around these &#8220;poor victims&#8221; who accepted a loan they knew was not in their best interest.  That is what I wanted to address. </p>
<p>Congrats on your homeownership. :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Monie</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/wells-fargo-subprime-loans-and-mud-people/comment-page-1/#comment-214330</link>
		<dc:creator>Monie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12075#comment-214330</guid>
		<description>Val, we just purchased a bank-owned home for several thousands less than what it sold for in 2005.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The very troublesome part of this housing bubble was that lenders, appraisers, real agent agents and even homebuyers bought into the notion that the housing prices would always go up.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The previous owners before us bought the house for far more than what it should have been appraised for......the house &quot;appreciated&quot; over $100,000 in 2 years...that was NEVER realistic in my middle class neighborhood....yet the lenders loan officers or appraisers had no problem signing off on this...and from what I&#039;ve found out the previous owners own a restaurant franchise, and yet made a horrible hising buy because unscrupulous lenders for whatever reason had no issue loaning out money on an inflated housing price.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This housing crisis will make you so angry when you know what was allowed to happen for so long.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Ya know, they said Bush had an &quot;agreement&quot; with at least 12 lenders to loan at least $1 trillion dollars before the end of the decade as part of his Homeownership challenge.....I can almost guarantee you most of those lenders are the sub-prime culprits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Val, we just purchased a bank-owned home for several thousands less than what it sold for in 2005.</p>
<p>The very troublesome part of this housing bubble was that lenders, appraisers, real agent agents and even homebuyers bought into the notion that the housing prices would always go up.</p>
<p>The previous owners before us bought the house for far more than what it should have been appraised for&#8230;&#8230;the house &#8220;appreciated&#8221; over $100,000 in 2 years&#8230;that was NEVER realistic in my middle class neighborhood&#8230;.yet the lenders loan officers or appraisers had no problem signing off on this&#8230;and from what I&#39;ve found out the previous owners own a restaurant franchise, and yet made a horrible hising buy because unscrupulous lenders for whatever reason had no issue loaning out money on an inflated housing price.</p>
<p>This housing crisis will make you so angry when you know what was allowed to happen for so long.</p>
<p>Ya know, they said Bush had an &#8220;agreement&#8221; with at least 12 lenders to loan at least $1 trillion dollars before the end of the decade as part of his Homeownership challenge&#8230;..I can almost guarantee you most of those lenders are the sub-prime culprits.</p>
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		<title>By: Val</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/wells-fargo-subprime-loans-and-mud-people/comment-page-1/#comment-214319</link>
		<dc:creator>Val</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12075#comment-214319</guid>
		<description>raotflmao.  you know you wrong.  lolololol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>raotflmao.  you know you wrong.  lolololol</p>
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		<title>By: Val</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/wells-fargo-subprime-loans-and-mud-people/comment-page-1/#comment-214316</link>
		<dc:creator>Val</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:30:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12075#comment-214316</guid>
		<description>Ronnie - I hear what you are saying and I am not discounting the fact that they should be held responsible to the government because it is a crime . . .I disagree with the consumer suing when they knew full well the offer was suspect.  I wanted to balance the discussion on this topic to raise the point that at the time when these  &quot;creative loans&quot; were being touted in ads on tv, radio etc. there were just as many ads on tv, radio etc telling consumers it was a bad deal.  They chose not to hear it because they wanted what they wanted.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This is similar to the issue I have with smokers knowing the risks of smoking and if they get lung cancer they turn around and try to sue the tobacco company.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ronnie &#8211; I hear what you are saying and I am not discounting the fact that they should be held responsible to the government because it is a crime . . .I disagree with the consumer suing when they knew full well the offer was suspect.  I wanted to balance the discussion on this topic to raise the point that at the time when these  &#8220;creative loans&#8221; were being touted in ads on tv, radio etc. there were just as many ads on tv, radio etc telling consumers it was a bad deal.  They chose not to hear it because they wanted what they wanted.</p>
<p>This is similar to the issue I have with smokers knowing the risks of smoking and if they get lung cancer they turn around and try to sue the tobacco company.</p>
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		<title>By: spirit_55z</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/wells-fargo-subprime-loans-and-mud-people/comment-page-1/#comment-214308</link>
		<dc:creator>spirit_55z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:03:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12075#comment-214308</guid>
		<description>KAPOW!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KAPOW!</p>
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		<title>By: Hers</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/wells-fargo-subprime-loans-and-mud-people/comment-page-1/#comment-214300</link>
		<dc:creator>Hers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:44:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12075#comment-214300</guid>
		<description>True, I never thought about it like that. I actually bank with Wells Fargo (because they bought out Wachovia) but I will be changing banks now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True, I never thought about it like that. I actually bank with Wells Fargo (because they bought out Wachovia) but I will be changing banks now.</p>
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		<title>By: RonnieB</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/wells-fargo-subprime-loans-and-mud-people/comment-page-1/#comment-214284</link>
		<dc:creator>RonnieB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:06:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12075#comment-214284</guid>
		<description>Problem is, even though all parties who were gaming the system are equally wrong, they are not equally wrong in the eyes of the government -- the government that is bailing out the banks that were part of the game.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Yes, consumers must always beware of schemes and scams.  At the same time, the average consumer can only appreciate the risks of a transaction up to a certain point.  It&#039;s at *that* point where banks, realtors, appraisers, etc. were MORE sophisticated in their knowledge of the risks involved.  Yet they proceeded.  So, in essence, the party who knew the risks better than most, gets the bailout.  And the [Black and Brown] consumer returns back to the cycle of being broke, with bad credit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Problem is, even though all parties who were gaming the system are equally wrong, they are not equally wrong in the eyes of the government &#8212; the government that is bailing out the banks that were part of the game.</p>
<p>Yes, consumers must always beware of schemes and scams.  At the same time, the average consumer can only appreciate the risks of a transaction up to a certain point.  It&#39;s at *that* point where banks, realtors, appraisers, etc. were MORE sophisticated in their knowledge of the risks involved.  Yet they proceeded.  So, in essence, the party who knew the risks better than most, gets the bailout.  And the [Black and Brown] consumer returns back to the cycle of being broke, with bad credit.</p>
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		<title>By: Admiral_Komack</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/wells-fargo-subprime-loans-and-mud-people/comment-page-1/#comment-214283</link>
		<dc:creator>Admiral_Komack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:06:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12075#comment-214283</guid>
		<description>Where, oh where is Mr. Accountability?&lt;br&gt;Oh, that&#039;s right, he doesn&#039;t have a book to hawk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where, oh where is Mr. Accountability?<br />Oh, that&#39;s right, he doesn&#39;t have a book to hawk.</p>
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