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	<title>Comments on: Sunday Open Thread</title>
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	<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/sunday-open-thread-56/</link>
	<description>A black bourgeoisie perspective on U.S. politics</description>
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		<title>By: whiterosebuddy</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/sunday-open-thread-56/comment-page-3/#comment-344620</link>
		<dc:creator>whiterosebuddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:22:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12530#comment-344620</guid>
		<description>I very much agree. I believed Michelle was describing her socio-economic reality. i.e. we were poor.  Ghetto, historically meant working class, unlike how folks using it as slang today for ignorance. It generally refers to a working class community of one ethnic group primarily. Many whites think of it in those terms, unlike the young whites that listen to hip hop, and use the term ghetto as slang.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I very much agree. I believed Michelle was describing her socio-economic reality. i.e. we were poor.  Ghetto, historically meant working class, unlike how folks using it as slang today for ignorance. It generally refers to a working class community of one ethnic group primarily. Many whites think of it in those terms, unlike the young whites that listen to hip hop, and use the term ghetto as slang.</p>
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		<title>By: whiterosebuddy</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/sunday-open-thread-56/comment-page-3/#comment-224439</link>
		<dc:creator>whiterosebuddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 06:22:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12530#comment-224439</guid>
		<description>I very much agree. I believed Michelle was describing her socio-economic reality. i.e. we were poor.  Ghetto, historically meant working class, unlike how folks using it as slang today for ignorance. It generally refers to a working class community of one ethnic group primarily. Many whites think of it in those terms, unlike the young whites that listen to hip hop, and use the term ghetto as slang.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I very much agree. I believed Michelle was describing her socio-economic reality. i.e. we were poor.  Ghetto, historically meant working class, unlike how folks using it as slang today for ignorance. It generally refers to a working class community of one ethnic group primarily. Many whites think of it in those terms, unlike the young whites that listen to hip hop, and use the term ghetto as slang.</p>
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		<title>By: divineempress</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/sunday-open-thread-56/comment-page-2/#comment-223804</link>
		<dc:creator>divineempress</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12530#comment-223804</guid>
		<description>I agree with you on this statement....Michelle saying she is a &quot;southside girl&quot; is a politically correct way for her to say that she is from the ghetto and shes proud of it! the fact that she came from the southside to FLOTUS makes her story more amazing...we sound like the our kind of people crowd when we go out our way to say that her family was working class..hell back then in the ghetto most families were working class the ghetto today is different from what it was 40 years ago also historically the term &quot;ghetto&quot; had more to do with the ethnic make up of the residents than their socioeconomic class</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you on this statement&#8230;.Michelle saying she is a &#8220;southside girl&#8221; is a politically correct way for her to say that she is from the ghetto and shes proud of it! the fact that she came from the southside to FLOTUS makes her story more amazing&#8230;we sound like the our kind of people crowd when we go out our way to say that her family was working class..hell back then in the ghetto most families were working class the ghetto today is different from what it was 40 years ago also historically the term &#8220;ghetto&#8221; had more to do with the ethnic make up of the residents than their socioeconomic class</p>
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		<title>By: spirit_55z</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/sunday-open-thread-56/comment-page-2/#comment-223745</link>
		<dc:creator>spirit_55z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12530#comment-223745</guid>
		<description>CNN has been airing Toure&#039; commentary of MJ since Thursday.  WOW, the HATERADE!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CNN has been airing Toure&#39; commentary of MJ since Thursday.  WOW, the HATERADE!</p>
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		<title>By: Miranda</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/sunday-open-thread-56/comment-page-2/#comment-223741</link>
		<dc:creator>Miranda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:25:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12530#comment-223741</guid>
		<description>No Monie...what makes this black class-cism so funny is the words of this guy in that NY Mag article:  Craig Hockmeyer, who owns a bicycle shop in nearby Vineyard Haven, says he spent many nights at Lola’s, which was, until its recent closing, a central part of the Vineyard black universe. “A bald white honky like me could go in there and feel totally comfortable and dance the night away with all the rich black folks, not a problem at all.” &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;LOL....Craig REALLY didn&#039;t know what he said...but I damn sure do. LOL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No Monie&#8230;what makes this black class-cism so funny is the words of this guy in that NY Mag article:  Craig Hockmeyer, who owns a bicycle shop in nearby Vineyard Haven, says he spent many nights at Lola’s, which was, until its recent closing, a central part of the Vineyard black universe. “A bald white honky like me could go in there and feel totally comfortable and dance the night away with all the rich black folks, not a problem at all.” </p>
<p>LOL&#8230;.Craig REALLY didn&#39;t know what he said&#8230;but I damn sure do. LOL</p>
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		<title>By: spirit_55z</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/sunday-open-thread-56/comment-page-2/#comment-223740</link>
		<dc:creator>spirit_55z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12530#comment-223740</guid>
		<description>&quot;If you don&#039;t have a legitimate connection to MJ, such as a family member. Or if you were not in his inner circle within say the last ten years, I don&#039;t want to hear shit you have to say. I just don&#039;t. &quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Honestly, listening to Jessie Jackson is like experiencing a time warp.  He and Al do have that uncanny ability to paint black folks on to a canvas of &quot;Victimhood.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If you don&#39;t have a legitimate connection to MJ, such as a family member. Or if you were not in his inner circle within say the last ten years, I don&#39;t want to hear shit you have to say. I just don&#39;t. &#8220;</p>
<p>Honestly, listening to Jessie Jackson is like experiencing a time warp.  He and Al do have that uncanny ability to paint black folks on to a canvas of &#8220;Victimhood.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: heartsandflowers</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/sunday-open-thread-56/comment-page-2/#comment-223738</link>
		<dc:creator>heartsandflowers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:14:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12530#comment-223738</guid>
		<description>Thanks. I still think he&#039;s the anonymous quoter. Punk!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks. I still think he&#39;s the anonymous quoter. Punk!</p>
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		<title>By: Myth</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/sunday-open-thread-56/comment-page-2/#comment-223700</link>
		<dc:creator>Myth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12530#comment-223700</guid>
		<description>Where is Evita? I don&#039;t see one post from her? She wanted the discussion to change from Mike. What&#039;s up with that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where is Evita? I don&#39;t see one post from her? She wanted the discussion to change from Mike. What&#39;s up with that.</p>
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		<title>By: whiterosebuddy</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/sunday-open-thread-56/comment-page-2/#comment-223690</link>
		<dc:creator>whiterosebuddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 21:57:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12530#comment-223690</guid>
		<description>It will be a real heartwrencher, becasue the truth is that Demerol is a cardio-respiratory depressant. Which would have made it extremely difficult to revive MJ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It will be a real heartwrencher, becasue the truth is that Demerol is a cardio-respiratory depressant. Which would have made it extremely difficult to revive MJ.</p>
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		<title>By: whiterosebuddy</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/sunday-open-thread-56/comment-page-2/#comment-223689</link>
		<dc:creator>whiterosebuddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 21:54:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12530#comment-223689</guid>
		<description>Yeah, what&#039;s up with this?   You know I bet the way this has gone to press so fast...the quotes are all old retreads!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Cuz, the folks that knew Michael are too upset right now to make statements...Time jumped the gun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, what&#39;s up with this?   You know I bet the way this has gone to press so fast&#8230;the quotes are all old retreads!</p>
<p>Cuz, the folks that knew Michael are too upset right now to make statements&#8230;Time jumped the gun.</p>
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		<title>By: whiterosebuddy</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/sunday-open-thread-56/comment-page-2/#comment-223688</link>
		<dc:creator>whiterosebuddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 21:52:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12530#comment-223688</guid>
		<description>Well, for wealthy affluent blacks they do not give 2 shyts about white acceptance, BUT...if you are NOKD (notourkinddear) and you black, they don&#039;t want to socialize with you either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, for wealthy affluent blacks they do not give 2 shyts about white acceptance, BUT&#8230;if you are NOKD (notourkinddear) and you black, they don&#39;t want to socialize with you either.</p>
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		<title>By: whiterosebuddy</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/sunday-open-thread-56/comment-page-2/#comment-223685</link>
		<dc:creator>whiterosebuddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 21:44:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12530#comment-223685</guid>
		<description>Agree agree agree.....&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But but but ....Rev Inc is getting PAID when he comes on...so...he doesn&#039;t decline.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree agree agree&#8230;..</p>
<p>But but but &#8230;.Rev Inc is getting PAID when he comes on&#8230;so&#8230;he doesn&#39;t decline.</p>
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		<title>By: jelana</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/sunday-open-thread-56/comment-page-2/#comment-223684</link>
		<dc:creator>jelana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 21:31:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12530#comment-223684</guid>
		<description>The biggest question of all is why do we still feel the need for white acceptance.&lt;br&gt;That is what is TRULY ridiculous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The biggest question of all is why do we still feel the need for white acceptance.<br />That is what is TRULY ridiculous.</p>
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		<title>By: whiterosebuddy</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/sunday-open-thread-56/comment-page-2/#comment-223678</link>
		<dc:creator>whiterosebuddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 21:08:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12530#comment-223678</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s the whole truth nothing but the truth. I went to hear Michelle speak and she stated it with pride.  Quote...I am from Chicago. I am from the SOUTSIDE she emphasized.  No one in the room misunderstood what she meant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#39;s the whole truth nothing but the truth. I went to hear Michelle speak and she stated it with pride.  Quote&#8230;I am from Chicago. I am from the SOUTSIDE she emphasized.  No one in the room misunderstood what she meant.</p>
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		<title>By: whiterosebuddy</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/sunday-open-thread-56/comment-page-2/#comment-223676</link>
		<dc:creator>whiterosebuddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 21:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12530#comment-223676</guid>
		<description>&quot;It is ironic to me that Black folks in Martha Vineyard, who still AREN&#039;T invited to the white folks events in Martha&#039;s Vineyard, would have an issue with other Black folks who they presume has not had the upbringing, class or decorum of their level..&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I understand what you mean, but then that is the entire point of classcism. If we stop and think about this for a second, it is the same ol same ol...child abusers are typicall abused children.  It is the same psychology.  For blacks however, it is worse, since the absolute worst thing you can be in America is to be black.  So, no matter how much money you have you can&#039;t escape being treated like scum simply cause you are black.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It is like a friend explained to me once. If white people had simply made the distinction between blacks with education and wealth being different (based on class) than blacks who were poor and illiterate just like they do about white trash, then there never would have been a Civil Rights movement in this country.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The affluent and educated classes regardless of color would have been joined at the hip about crime and property rights.  Both would have had property to protect and a legal system that deferred to their monetary status.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;They didn&#039;t. They continued to use race as a barrier.  So, for many blacks the only way to separate themselves by class was within their race. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It would be no different from the Kennedys being Irish and knowing no matter how much money they had the society was going to treat them as drunks and discriminate against them simply because they were Irish.  Then the Kennedys would have had only one recourse and that would be to fight for civil justice while at the same time separating themselves socially from the havenots. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That is how it is in a capitalistic society. Class rules.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Except in America, where being black meant you were still excluded.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Oprah is wonderful, but she still is not inviting folks from the hood to any of her mansions, to ride on her private jet, nor to her backyard parties.  Instead, she gave her BFF the money to travel with her and go out to parties with her and entertain as much as her!!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Agree with all you said about the liquor folks..black folks are just good for marketing..to bring them dollars.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That is why the artists who promote that ignorance to our youth need their asses strung up and tarred and feathered.  When people have no respect for their own culture and especially our children  they are just worthless. They are as much of a  scourge on our communities as the KKK and predatory lenders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It is ironic to me that Black folks in Martha Vineyard, who still AREN&#39;T invited to the white folks events in Martha&#39;s Vineyard, would have an issue with other Black folks who they presume has not had the upbringing, class or decorum of their level..&#8221;</p>
<p>I understand what you mean, but then that is the entire point of classcism. If we stop and think about this for a second, it is the same ol same ol&#8230;child abusers are typicall abused children.  It is the same psychology.  For blacks however, it is worse, since the absolute worst thing you can be in America is to be black.  So, no matter how much money you have you can&#39;t escape being treated like scum simply cause you are black.</p>
<p>It is like a friend explained to me once. If white people had simply made the distinction between blacks with education and wealth being different (based on class) than blacks who were poor and illiterate just like they do about white trash, then there never would have been a Civil Rights movement in this country.</p>
<p>The affluent and educated classes regardless of color would have been joined at the hip about crime and property rights.  Both would have had property to protect and a legal system that deferred to their monetary status.</p>
<p>They didn&#39;t. They continued to use race as a barrier.  So, for many blacks the only way to separate themselves by class was within their race. </p>
<p>It would be no different from the Kennedys being Irish and knowing no matter how much money they had the society was going to treat them as drunks and discriminate against them simply because they were Irish.  Then the Kennedys would have had only one recourse and that would be to fight for civil justice while at the same time separating themselves socially from the havenots. </p>
<p>That is how it is in a capitalistic society. Class rules.</p>
<p>Except in America, where being black meant you were still excluded.</p>
<p>Oprah is wonderful, but she still is not inviting folks from the hood to any of her mansions, to ride on her private jet, nor to her backyard parties.  Instead, she gave her BFF the money to travel with her and go out to parties with her and entertain as much as her!!</p>
<p>Agree with all you said about the liquor folks..black folks are just good for marketing..to bring them dollars.</p>
<p>That is why the artists who promote that ignorance to our youth need their asses strung up and tarred and feathered.  When people have no respect for their own culture and especially our children  they are just worthless. They are as much of a  scourge on our communities as the KKK and predatory lenders.</p>
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		<title>By: Justice58</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/sunday-open-thread-56/comment-page-2/#comment-223673</link>
		<dc:creator>Justice58</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 20:51:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12530#comment-223673</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Michelle, claims &#039;the southside&#039; with pride and she means nothing OTHER than ghetto. That is clear to anyone who listens to her speak.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;wrb,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That&#039;s what you see. I don&#039;t see that at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Michelle, claims &#39;the southside&#39; with pride and she means nothing OTHER than ghetto. That is clear to anyone who listens to her speak.</i></p>
<p>wrb,</p>
<p>That&#39;s what you see. I don&#39;t see that at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Monie</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/sunday-open-thread-56/comment-page-2/#comment-223671</link>
		<dc:creator>Monie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 20:48:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12530#comment-223671</guid>
		<description>your last statement is why I consider it fruitles....I&#039;m going back to that article for a minute,....It is ironic to me that Black folks in Martha Vineyard, who still AREN&#039;T invited to the white folks events in Martha&#039;s Vineyard, would have an issue with other Black folks who they presume has not had the upbringing, class or decorum of their level.....exactly who are these Black folk saying others aren&#039;t good enough, when in the same environment in which they trying  so hard to be &quot;accepted&quot;, aren&#039;t good enough for their target crowd.  That&#039;s what makes it fruitless.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And even while Oprah is one of the richest, and well-known women in the WORLD...Hermes still did not want her buying their wares..&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;L&#039;oreal does NOT want to sell to Black and Brown folk, and photoshopped Beyonce&#039;s complexion to the point it created outrage...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;and we do not even need to  up the liquor manufacturers who shun urban music artists (who are some of the richest Black Americans) and those same artist have made these companies billions by promoting them in song.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I guess I&#039;ll have to read the book.....this Black class-cism mess is somewhat fascinating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>your last statement is why I consider it fruitles&#8230;.I&#39;m going back to that article for a minute,&#8230;.It is ironic to me that Black folks in Martha Vineyard, who still AREN&#39;T invited to the white folks events in Martha&#39;s Vineyard, would have an issue with other Black folks who they presume has not had the upbringing, class or decorum of their level&#8230;..exactly who are these Black folk saying others aren&#39;t good enough, when in the same environment in which they trying  so hard to be &#8220;accepted&#8221;, aren&#39;t good enough for their target crowd.  That&#39;s what makes it fruitless.</p>
<p>And even while Oprah is one of the richest, and well-known women in the WORLD&#8230;Hermes still did not want her buying their wares..</p>
<p>L&#39;oreal does NOT want to sell to Black and Brown folk, and photoshopped Beyonce&#39;s complexion to the point it created outrage&#8230;</p>
<p>and we do not even need to  up the liquor manufacturers who shun urban music artists (who are some of the richest Black Americans) and those same artist have made these companies billions by promoting them in song.</p>
<p>I guess I&#39;ll have to read the book&#8230;..this Black class-cism mess is somewhat fascinating.</p>
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		<title>By: danadevin74</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/sunday-open-thread-56/comment-page-2/#comment-223670</link>
		<dc:creator>danadevin74</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 20:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12530#comment-223670</guid>
		<description>I understand Presiden&#039;t Obama  not wanting any kind of controversey&lt;br&gt; by speaking publicly about Michaels death&lt;br&gt;but if George Bush can make a public statement about James Browns death&lt;br&gt;Presiden&#039;t Obama  can do the same&lt;br&gt;because we know The Godfather had his demons also&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But then again Michaels fans don&#039;t really need public statements to validate what he meant to them</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand Presiden&#39;t Obama  not wanting any kind of controversey<br /> by speaking publicly about Michaels death<br />but if George Bush can make a public statement about James Browns death<br />Presiden&#39;t Obama  can do the same<br />because we know The Godfather had his demons also</p>
<p>But then again Michaels fans don&#39;t really need public statements to validate what he meant to them</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: rikyrah</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/sunday-open-thread-56/comment-page-2/#comment-223668</link>
		<dc:creator>rikyrah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 20:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12530#comment-223668</guid>
		<description>AFTERNOON OPEN THREAD IS UP!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AFTERNOON OPEN THREAD IS UP!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: whiterosebuddy</title>
		<link>http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/sunday-open-thread-56/comment-page-2/#comment-223667</link>
		<dc:creator>whiterosebuddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 20:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/?p=12530#comment-223667</guid>
		<description>Ok, let me ask this question,then.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What does the term ghetto mean to you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, let me ask this question,then.</p>
<p>What does the term ghetto mean to you?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
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