As GLH would say, “Let the choich say Amen!”

My thing is the folks who are doing the advocating for those rights. I'm not against these guys, neither blind trust in their motives.

The wheels of justice grind slowly, but somehow the timing feels off to me. In the end, it will be what it will be.

Fear is a condenser and love an expander. Love for freedom trumps fear.

I understand why you're concerned about your gay friends and want to support them. If I were in Craig's shoes, there would definitely be concern about having my marriage invalidated by a Supreme Court decision.

But the way America works through these issues is slow and lethargic, “one step forward–two steps back.” And there is nothing worse (in my estimation) than letting fear prevent progress.

Fear is why it took nearly 100 years between 1865 and 1964 before African Americans achieved true civil rights in this country. The courage of a Frederick Douglass or Harriet Tubman did not reveal itself again until Rosa Parks and MLK Jr. took on their own crosses.

When Douglass escaped to the North, he could've just kept his mouth shut and enjoyed his freedom. Tubman only needed to take one ride on the Underground Railroad. Instead, she took 13 trips.

Now is not the time to fear losing rights. Folks in states (such as Maine) where they have the right to marry regardless of their sexual orientation should not become complacent.

PS: I still don't know what WRB was trying to say; her line of reasoning is WAY beyond my ability to comprehend–dayum near, 100% alien to me.

As GLH would say, “Let the choich say Amen!”

My thing is the folks who are doing the advocating for those rights. I'm not against these guys, neither blind trust in their motives.

The wheels of justice grind slowly, but somehow the timing feels off to me. In the end, it will be what it will be.

Fear is a condenser and love an expander. Love for freedom trumps fear.

I understand why you're concerned about your gay friends and want to support them. If I were in Craig's shoes, there would definitely be concern about having my marriage invalidated by a Supreme Court decision.

But the way America works through these issues is slow and lethargic, “one step forward–two steps back.” And there is nothing worse (in my estimation) than letting fear prevent progress.

Fear is why it took nearly 100 years between 1865 and 1964 before African Americans achieved true civil rights in this country. The courage of a Frederick Douglass or Harriet Tubman did not reveal itself again until Rosa Parks and MLK Jr. took on their own crosses.

When Douglass escaped to the North, he could've just kept his mouth shut and enjoyed his freedom. Tubman only needed to take one ride on the Underground Railroad. Instead, she took 13 trips.

Now is not the time to fear losing rights. Folks in states (such as Maine) where they have the right to marry regardless of their sexual orientation should not become complacent.

PS: I still don't know what WRB was trying to say; her line of reasoning is WAY beyond by ability to comprehend–dayum near, 100% alien to me.

I have many gay friends and support them in their choices when it comes to this issue. Some of their stories are heart rending.

While some of my initial hesitancy may come from emotion, I think I'll wait and see where these two men go with their advocacy.

P.S. I see you and WRB are having a spirited discussion!

Have a great weekend, Webb. :-)))

This “strategy” breaks foul wind in the face of why we bring any case to the supreme court: constitutionality.

I'm sure King, as a scholar, was cognizant of the other Civil Rights Act – the 1875 one which was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court – and the nearly uncut influence on those who held power and decision-making that remained through 1964.

Our method is to put it to the court – in season and out of season and then to abide by it per rule of law, arming for the next challenge if we disagree.

“I have a dream that one day down in Alabama with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of interposition and nullification, one day right there in Alabama little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers.”

He dreamed and worked at the same time, not waiting on any favorable condition.

I said that Boies record was irrelevant to his being effective.

I refuse to break down the part on marriage and gays. You may want to learn more about the purpose and role of marriage in society.

You know, research facts on the sociologic import and legal REASONING that society provided benefits to individuals to marry.

Here's a hint: individuals LOSE rights when they marry.

That is your bar! You think cause he has a record of wins he's effective. I do not. His ARGUMENTS are SPECIOUS. (look for specificity there and you might find it) Before you jump into the lake.

Everything you cited is just generic, good-ole boy, racism. You did not provide a single, SPECIFIC reason for why Boies would be ineffective.

No. Read it again until you comprehend the point. Gays marrying do not benefit society whatsoever.

Make your mind up whiterosebuddy–did you NOT say, “the purpose of society and why society gives benefits to those who choose to RESTRICT their rights as INDIVIDUALS by engaging in matrimony for the BENEFIT of society. “

Are homosexuals not individuals? These are your own words.

Because you are impressed with his legal skills, great. I am not. I find his arguments to be specious, and most folks who know anything about legal precedents, understand it is not about the argument for the likes of Boies. He is where he is with the record he has because he is a WHITE boy. Ain't nothing brilliant about him or his mind. WTF, don't you read the paper, Sotomayor ain't a legal brillant mind either. See, how it works. YOU have to assign powess in YOUR Mind. So, I repeat, Boies don't count and neither does his record. His record is based on his country club membership and his elite education. It's a who's who club and they all know one another! Sotomayor don't belong cause her mind IS great.

“Some of us like to know what we are talking about before we speak. We don't allow ourselves to wallow around in ignorance. It's very, very lazy for you to dismiss someone's background in considering their effectiveness.”

Some of us put forth the effort to understand the scope and breadth of issues based on cogent analysis due to strong critical thinking for oneself vs. what others 'tell' you is true. It is called not being a follower and thinking for one's self. Effectiveness in legal circles has not one wit to do with your record of winning and everything to do with what judges you know. Perhaps you want to take your suggestion to heart about not opening one's mouth unless you have the facts to support your statements.

“Your mindset is similar to the ignorance that Republicans/Rednecks embrace and I really, really hate to see it in my own people. Do some research and make some salient points on the basis of facts.”

Ignorant minds talk about people, like you are doing here. Your rudimentary understanding of legal 'winning records' being some measure of legal greatness is total bullshyt. Perhaps, you need to find some salient FACTS to support the numbnut follower mentality you demonstrate by accepting what folks say cause you can count a record of wins. The sheer inanity of that being a measure of prowess is STOOOOPid.

But then stupidity does not stop most people from mouthing off about what they don't comprehend or grasp since they act like sheep and just follow what the 'powers that be' tell them. Despite, being black and knowing how dismissive society has consistently been about our own damn people. But now, you think you gone tell somebody cause those same bigots and liars said Boies is somebody he is. Please. Get a book. Read and develop your mind and critical thinking. It's black folks with your mindset that are a complete discredit to the race, just like the Toms that told the escape plans, cause they 'loved master'

“Cool point, you think marriage benefits society.”

No. Read it again until you comprehend the point. Gays marrying do not benefit society whatsoever.

Ummm, hmmm, I see you waited for your backup Spirit, lmao. It's all good.

I want Webb to be right about the timing of it. In my eyes, Prop 8 AND the Defense of Marriage Act are unconstitutional. But I don't think I'm just being afraid of a high court ruling. I've been in the trenches on this issue for more than a minute and this court has proven it WILL bend to political pressure from the right.

His legal prowess doesn't rate? WTF? Would you hire an attorney who lost more cases than they won? Maybe you would…maybe the only attorney you respect is Johnnie Cochran (RIP) since you reduced Boies to a “white weasel.”

Some of us like to know what we are talking about before we speak. We don't allow ourselves to wallow around in ignorance. It's very, very lazy for you to dismiss someone's background in considering their effectiveness.

Your mindset is similar to the ignorance that Republicans/Rednecks embrace and I really, really hate to see it in my own people. Do some research and make some salient points on the basis of facts.

the purpose of society and why society gives benefits to those who choose to RESTRICT their rights as INDIVIDUALS by engaging in matrimony for the BENEFIT of society.

Cool point, you think marriage benefits society. Cool, gay marriage and gay family units will benefit society too.

I still think it's the wrong time.