Jack & Jill Politics

Baratunde: O.K. That "Watermelon-containing" E-MAIL.

It was "QUESTIONABLE!!!?????????"

NOW let's have that DEBATE!! :>)

I'm just sayin' . . . . .

Co-sign, GreenLady.

Cause according to Cenk, we're supposed to offer tea and crumpets to these racist bastards and tell'm "lookie, here Mayor, you caint be sending me emails of pics with a patch-o-watermelon on the WHITE HOUSE lawn; cuz all black folks don't like watermelon.

<<<<<Eye Roll>>>

spirit: LOL!! :>)

YEP! 'cause IFFF we call it the "R"- WORD ---we'll cut off conversation! :>)

Really????

Cenk, get a freaking grip, dude. White people aren't my target audience. It's anyone that spews this nonsense. White folks don't have a monoply on racism . I don't want anyone to get shit.

Racist White folks don't want to get shit when it comes to RACE. If they did, they wouldn't put out dumb shit like that fucking ape shit cartoon.

They have to want to understand IT. And I'm not the one to shcool'em.

Life will teach them better. Like I said on an earlier post, until these folks get down with us on an emotional level with race, they'll won't get an understanding. They'll never get it with the mind. You can't rationalize racism away!

THAT IS ALL!

"When black people talk about honest feelings, it's called blaming. When white people talk about it, it's being called held responsible."

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Buchanan_Dyson_di...

Cenk's assertion that we as black folks have the burden of 'convincing white folks that something is racist' cuz "that is the audience we are trying to reach' puts an obvious frame of white privledge, entitlement and denial, and defers legitimate debate that confronts white acquensence to said privilege. Despite ample evidence, white folks can simply ignore people whose concerns they've always discounted, and come up with a myriad of rationalizations for their willful ignorance. Atomizing issues of racism to just an issue of individuals, rather than the larger issue of institutional biases, as Baratunde posted a few days ago, will always remain a barrier to a meaningful discussion of race IMHO, and no, Cenk, having POC do the heavy lifting regarding anti-racist work is "not just the way it is", it's too symptomatic of the denial and entitlement that white folks project and act upon. That flippant behavior is the real problem, not us jackin' the NYP up over a racist cartoon.

Thank you! Enough is enough!!!

agreed. "privilege in action."

tell it

ebogan, well articulated and my sentiments exactly.

A-M-E-N

ebogan: HEY! :>)

U JUST S-P-E-A-K!!! :>) :>)

After lurking round JJP for awhile, this racist nonsense brought me out. All of you at JJP are doing a great service in providing an articulate, thoughtful forum for POC and others to voice their views. Thank you for your responses to my post.

Cenk just pissed me off.

Baratunde: Annnnnnd, ANOTHER THING:

My RESONSE to a comment:

YEP! Another FAUX - 'pology!! :>) [from Murdock]

IN FACT - - - - IT WAS "QUESTIONABLE!! :>) :>) [Cenk-esque!] :>)

NOW - - - "LET THE DEBATE BEGIN!!" :>)

THERE!! :>)

P.S. Gotta "bounce". C U'ALL L8R! :>)

P.P.S. I find it interesting that THIS post received a "0" when it was a "repeat" of another "acceptable" comment. **shrug***

Once again, it's black folks who are supposed to do the 'understanding' and we are supposed to sit back and be 'reasonable'. More qualifying and quantifying. It's a dead end, I'm happy to walk the other way.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I could care less. I won't work at having someone like me in spite of their own prejudices; I won't be responsible for begging their forgiveness for being black and portrayed in a negative light; I want apologize or be held responsible for other blacks they use to measure us by.

Guess what, I really don't care if they understand me or not.

Been there, done that, got the #$^% T-shirt. I'm sick of being the bigger person and having to do the heavy lifting in these types of situations, especially because a lot of times people on the other side are more interested in being passive aggressive instead of trying to learn something. My days of teaching Black People 101 are over.

(Sorry for the rant but a lot of my co-workers have this type of mindset, and some days it's all I can do not to smack somebody. And they wonder why I keep to myself.)

Agree, MsKitty. You keep telling it.

White folks gonna have ta step up or step aside.

I've got gas heat, so I don't chop wood anymore.
I've got indoor plumbing, so I don't carry water.

No more chopping wood and carrying water.

Damn....where do you sit? Because we obviously working at the same place.

It's a mess. A lot the guys in my department are between 25-35 and they have that fratboy mindset, just to give you an idea of what I'm dealing with. Most times as long as I keep my office door closed and the iPod cranked up, it's a good day. But every once in a while when these types of stories break (Imus dissing the Rutgers women's bball team is another example), the ignorance shows up front and center. I'm at the point in my life where I don't feel like indulging that nonsense anymore, so I get branded as anti-social. Whatever.

"I'm at the point in my life where I don't feel like indulging that nonsense anymore, so I get branded as anti-social."

The phrase I stole from a friend is "I'm done with engaging"....DONE, FINISHED, THE END.

People have to call you something when you refuse to chase their asses around for inclusion. If you think about it, social inclusion isn't what you really want anyway. Most people have their own thing. Many derive pleasure from people wanting to join the clique, even from their own.

I've never really indulged or for lack of a better term, gave a fuck, and people are always trying to see what I'm doing.

Yes, MsKitty. At some point, being the well-regarded doormat gets a little old.

Noelani: YEP! ***shakin' my head*** :>)

Wait up!! Ima WALK withya!! Walking Along (Solitaires) :>)

ENJOY!!! :>) :>) I LOVE THIS SONG!! :>) :>)

Baratunde: THANK YOU 4 posting this - - -___________.

1. FIRST: I would appreciate IFFF he pronounced your NAME CORRECTLY. One criterion that I use to determine RESPECT for another person IS how their NAME is pronounced! I make it a POINT to CLARIFY THAT 4 myself B4 I move on!

2. He speaks like a MAJORITY person. "A lot of MINORITIES have experienced it. THEY get it."
Why NOT - - a lot of US have experienced it . WE get it." Hmmmmmm.

Sooo, that he's STILL pushing the "soft-pedal" approach - - feels 2 me like he SPEAKS 4 THEM = ME.

3. What is up with trying to CREATE a RATIONAL [INTELLECTUAL] discourse base on the word "RACIST", which is in and of itself - - - IRRATIONAL!!??
Why don't YOU/THEM get past the WORD and get to the CARTOON!?

It is virtually un-labelled. WHAT does that CHIMPLOOK LIKE IT REPRESENTS??

A. 500+ MOSTLY WHITE CONGRESS-PERSONS
B. OUR HONORED PRESIDENT

U have 1 second to give an answer and NO - - Ya cain't use a LIFE LINE!! Geez!

4. We DID INCLUDE OUR REASONS WHY WE FELT - - NO! KNOW that the CARTOON WAS INTENTIONALLY RACIST!!

Here's how it went down. "That cartoon is RACIST annnnd, I'll tell U why!!

Now, you can rebut!!"

IFFF THEY felt "shut -down or shut out" at the WORD RACIST - - THEN - - -"CHECK YOUR DEBATE SKILLS!!"

THEY have the ABILITY to CHOOSE which part of OUR statement that they wish to rebut - - - NOT SHUT DOWN!! C'MON!!

5. On: "YOU could use the WORD - - "QUESTIONABLE"

O.K. Let me STIMULATE SOME DEBATE:

A. I think that SLAVERY was QUESTIONABLE.
B. I think that "JIM CROW" Laws were QUESTIONABLE.
C. I think that "INSTITUTIONAL RACISM" is QUESTIONABLE.
D. I think that LYNCHING is/was QUESTIONABLE
ETC. You get my point!

Puh -leese don't call a "something" a "duck" just 'cause it WALKS, QUACKS and HAS A BEAK, FEATHERS and FEET like a DUCK.

Say it's "QUESTIONABLE" - - - FIRST!! *** shakin' my head - - really hard!*** :>)

6. "WHYCOME" he PRACTICALLY" called whites STUPID by implying that they can't SEE RACISM? THEY MUST B DEBATED INTO UNDERSTANDING THAT SOMETHING IS RACIST!!

O.K.

I'm THA - ROUGH 4 NOW!! :>) **still shakin' my head*** :>)

Oh! The BLANK - - - - -DRIVEL!! A VAPID PRETENSE at INTELLECTUALISM!!

WAAAAAAY BENEATH YOUR LEVEL of ARGUMENTATION!

I applaude YOU 4 tryin' ta EDUMENCATE HIM!! :>) :>)

ROTFLMBAO!!!!! IT'S THE CARTOON, CENK, THE CARTOON!

As I said, I applaude Baratunde for postin' his response. :>)

Baratunde CAN DEBATE!! His TECHNIQUE on 1600 PA. AVE.----IMPECCABLE!!

He is "movin' the "debate!" Cenk is "STUCK ON the WORD RACIST!!" :>)

** shakin' my head***

P.S. I'm saddened that the "rate down arrow" was ACCIDENTALLY activated! :>) :>)

I knoiw, GreenLady. Just like the word "COWARD" folks want to circum-navigate around the real issues. It's the behavior, and all they can focus on is the word.

Talk about traveling down that river in Egypt called DENIAL.

spirit: LOL! :>) :>)

*dead*......question #3 did it for me...............ROFLMAO

Miranda: Thank you. :>)

U have 1 second to give an answer and NO - - Ya cain't use a LIFE LINE!! Geez!

LMBAO

MsKitty: Thank U! :>) :>)

This ISSUE has GOTTEN 2 me!!

Tryin' to RATIONALIZE & INTELLECTUALIZE "RACISM"!

When that "cartoon" was being drawn - - did the "artist" "rationalize/intellectualize" its POSSIBLE interpretations - - 1. It could B interpreted as "RACIST!" 2. It could B interpreted as "RACIST!"

[YEP! ONLY 1 CHOICE!]

NO!! He just put it out there!!

I'll BETCHA that any elementary student would IMMEDIATELY ask - - Is that the PRESIDENT!!? SHOOT!!

Delona KNEW!! Annnnnnd, WE KNOW!!

Annnnnnd, NEITHER is "SLAVERY" subject to DEBATE!! It isn't QUESTIONABLE!! [shhhhhh! quietly said.]

IT WAS RACISM!! Among other things!

Whew! Deep BREATHS!! ***using my OBAMA CHURCH FAN!! *** :>) :>)

Yeah, it's the rationalization of it that galls me. It's like people don't even want to acknowledge that maybe there is a reason for outrage. I especially loved Delonas' explanation--"for all you know the monkey could have symbolized Nancy Pelosi." Oh, so you're advocating the assassination of the Speaker of the House, not the President...I guess all is forgiven then. It's like what part of it's wrong to incite assassination of government figures DO YOU NOT GET?

Like I said upthread some of my less enlightened co-workers tried to engage me on this, because they just couldn't understand what all the fuss was about. I basically told them to talk to the hand because I've never been one to suffer fools gladly, but in recent years I have zero tolerance.

MsKitty: GOOD ON U!! EDUCATE! - - - DON'T TOLERATE!! :>) :>)

LMAO

Noelani: Thank you! :>) :>)

Cenk,I think you're wrong. There is so much racism that only comes out in "all-white" contexts that whitey NEEDS to be confronted. You may be too "ethnic" to know what I'm on about. We do more harm by not confronting racism and letting people think it's okay to make that horrible, horrible joke - such as the ones I've heard.

For my money, all race discussions inevitably lead to slavery. In this, the Jefferson/Hemmings family is shouldering the most weight. Any descendents of slave owners (like me) who look into their family history and want to reach out to descendents of slaves immediately find themselves LOOKING FOR THEIR OWN RELATIVES. That realization quickly changes one's perspective.

This is a great program set up by (willing) members of the J/H family after their first, genetically proven, legally required unified family reunion. If I ever find relatives, we're going.

http://www.emu.edu/cjp/comingtothetable/index.html

You're up in the Burg, huh?

No, sir, but Coming to the Table is there. I'm in loverly Pawtucket, Rhode Island - the getting lost capital of the universe. Click my name to learn more than you ever wanted about this hardscrabble post industrial town.

Frymaster: HEY! :>)

Nice post/web site! :>)

Thanks. I really like the tone of these discussions on J&J. Not so fluffy as Cenk advocates. Hope to chat w/ you more.

Frymaster, good deal. Come on back anytime. We can serve up fluff too, when it's called for. This aint one of those time.

Frymaster: O.K. :>) :>)