I'm a little older now and I know what's important to me.

What's important to me?Substance, grace, kindness, and humility.

I've met more people with those characteristics on the “lower rungs”.

I have thrown aside the trappings of the Black Bourgie Mafia (and it looks like I'm not the only one) and I just live and deal with Black folk just like I deal with anyone-on the basis of their character, not by the letters behind their name, the square footage of their home, the type of car they drive, or if they say axe or ask.

I read OKOP. But I am not one of them. They are a valid part of our history here in this country. Why does one experience outweigh or invalidate the other ?

Fair enough about the painting with the broad brush and I certainly don't begrudge the success of you and your family, but the respect goes both ways. I am well educated and part of the upwardly mobile, but I grew up in housing project raised by a single mother. I make that point because my mother raised me and my sisters not to be limited by our circumstances; and to that end our house was filled with books, made a great financial sacrifie to send us to private school, and when finances would allow she would take us to the theatre/classical concerts. And there were lots of other kids “on the block” who were blessed with familes raising them to succed. But to the well-off black families in my community, we were seen simply as “The Village” kids who needed to be avoided at all costs because we were bad news and wouldn't amount to anything. In high school, most of the courses I took were AP and there were maybe 3-4 black kids in a class of 20. Without fail I got along great with the white students whereas the other black students, who all were from well-off families, wouldn't give me the time of day. I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions of why that was. So please don't minimize the disrespect and misunderstanding that goes on because it does go on–I lived it. Honestly, people getting over themselves on both sides will go a long way in fixing this.

no surprise there…

you did a great job in your rant of describing exactly the elitism and snobbiness that are often attached to your kind of people….

From my seat, this conversation – and having the jump off being My Kind of People – illustrates how nothing really moves (for the larger race/society) as long as we participate in divisive conversations.

Where is the value and conviction in our fundamental struggle: a better life FOR ALL. Where is the commitment to meeting head on all those structures, cultural beliefs, historical and personal traumas that stands in the way of that, diminishing our lives and the lives of others who we are connected to and responsible for. And lets be clear, it doesn't matter honestly if the challenges come from inside THE community or outside THE community; inside the individual or outside of the individual – they must be met and met with conviction and love. Somehow we have become convinced that burden is synonymous to responsibility, that criticism is the same as insight, that demand is the same as invitation, that frustration is the same as incentive, etc. Its time for us to be honest about what we value. Casue if we value our degress, houses, cars, social networks of prestige, then we need to be honest about that and stop saying we are about the work of human reconciliation, reclaimation, empowerment and transcendence. The larger moment is begging us to move beyond this illusion of progress and dream bolder, to hold each other accountable (and lets be clear we the edumacated often abdicate our responsibility to our brothers and sisters – and i don't mean the responsibility to turn them into little clones of ourselves) – and collectively, in cooperation with each other, work towards a model of being (black) that isn't ok with the idea that some of us are ok cause we have access and the rest are bankrupt because they do not.

I'm Ecstatic about attending the inuaguration! :-))

Rumi:

Your True Life

AS YOU START TO WALK OUT ON THE WAY,
THE WAY APPEARS.

AS YOU CEASE TO BE,
TRUE LIFE BEGINS.

AS YOU GROW SMALLER,
THIS WORLD CANNOT CONTAIN YOU.

YOU WILL BE SHOWN A BEING
THAT HAS NO YOU IN IT.

Given what was mentioned ,the likes of Oprah and Michelle would not meet the qualifications even to stop by at Sag Harbour or Oldsbluff. for that matter.But there is cold 'revenge' taking place among these very class conscious folks… Those they have walked passed only based on the darkness of skin..regardless of their educational staus is now leaving them in the dust. Michelle doesn't need an invitation to get her girls to a Jack and Jill… I think its great how all of this is turning out.

A movie on this would be great! Where is Otis? Penning another book I guess!

We then, who are this new soul, know,
Of what we are composed, and made,
For th' atomies of which we grow
Are souls, whom no change can invade.

But, O alas ! so long, so far,
Our bodies why do we forbear?
They are ours, though not we ; we are
Th' intelligences, they the spheres.

It's ok. I'll see him again on the block. have fun at the noggeration.

Whats the difference between middle class blacks and working class/poor blacks? According to many on this thread: Behavior. That is that middle class blacks are different in terms of behavior ie work ethic, language, manners, spending patterns etc etc. As if poor black folk are at the bottom of the class ladder cause they dont work hard enough.

Most people reading this thread would have rejected this notion if I had suggested that upper crust black people work harder, speak better, are more cultured and better financial stewards than middle class people. So why accept this logic when talking about lower SES ( socioeconmic status) or poor black people?

Thats whats wrong with this picture.

I reject this picture because it bolsters the myth that this society is a meritocracy. This is country is not a meritocracy. Many studies show that there is limited class mobility and most people are in the same class that there parents were born into http://www.economicmobility.org/assets/pdfs/EMP.... Sure there are exceptions of folk moving up but its the happy EXCEPTION and not the rule.

Everyone in this country wants to be middle class and does everything to distance themselves from the lower rungs. The try to be middle class while trying to become upper class. They lull themselves into thinking that it is possible while at the same time blaming people who dont “make it” as having some moral defect ( uneducated, lack manners, spend too much).

So I thought this would be an interesting discussion to talk about how we separate ourselves based on class and the many ways we guard our respective positions jealously. At the same time we need to be mindful of whats happening and not accept class distinctions uncritically.

Anywhere where were you this whole discussion??? It would have been nice to hear you chime in earlier.

Could someone please tell me a society that exists or has existed or this earth that has not had some sort of recognized class structure when large differences in wealth and/or education have existed? For that matter can anyone tell me of a society from antiquity to the present that did not use a variety of means of stratifying their social positions?

What has lead african americans to believe they should be somehow excluded from such facts of life?

There seems to be an awful lot of projection involved here. In ALL societies those less advantaged seem to believe that those in an alternative position in life have a slew of negative feelings about them. Interestingly this complaint is alternated with complaints of disregard or being treated as “invisible” to the upper classes. Which is it? Seen, contemplated, and disliked or unseen, unconsidered and non-existent in the minds of the elite? Can it really be both?

Has anyone ever considered the flip side?

Should those with long standing family lines of college educated, financially successful ancestors feel ashamed of that fact? Should they hide their ancestors accomplishments in shame? Should they leave their children scrambling for heroes to emulate hoping that they will find some rap artist to pattern themselves after?

Moreover, should the african americans in america cease to seek to extinquish the greatest lichpin of racism—- the defining of the entire race by the “least of these” instead of defining the race by the best and brightest?

Isn't that what drives the institutionalized racist policies? A degreed and competent african american applies for a position and because of their skin color it is presumed that they are poor and undereducated and incompetent. Isn't racism at it's core about defining our people by all the negatives that do in fact exist among us without ever being willing to acknowledge the positives? Aren't we forever arguing that our successes are not credited but or failures are latched onto by whites and become ALL they know about our communities and our existence?

Could that be, in any part, because of the lack of focus (by african american activists and intelligencia) on the FACT that there is not AN African American Community— there are African American COMMUNITIES often with different focuses and values systems and political tendencies. Could it be because the African American upper class (which has existed longer than this nation has existed) has been invisible to white america and the lion's share of black america has done little else than deride the existence of these African American communities.

It seems outrageous and counterproductive to me that so many african americans would rather deify those whites who have championed their causes and denigrate and demean those blacks……. those “our kind of people”……… whose dedication and efforts to fight to end racism AND to aid those less fortunate when their were no social service programs, or scholarships or access to schools and teachers etc.

The next time anyone thinking like this opens their mouths to wonder at our children being scared to achieve, feeling that they have to chose between being “black” or being good students, thinking that they must conflate those things that define poverty wiht those things that define blackness— I sincerely hope that before they bemoan this lethal epidemic among our children they ask themselves if that is the message that they have been sending those children.

Think back on the comments soooo prevalent here. Think back on the notion that all those at any radio station — just because they are black — should share the same social circles or personal preferences for their lives. Blacks who can afford an upscale restaurant should hesitate to gather a groupo for an afterword bite in order to avoid making those who cannot feel what………not as well off? Those who like to share a drink and share memories of college and graduate school should instead bury those memories so and not to what……..offend those who may not have been able to go to college — OR may not have been willing to miss the parties and may have chosen to hang with the girls or get hair and nails down while others studied for SAT's! Either may be the case! But nonetheless, those who missed prom to finish a project and get that A that would get them into ivy league should squash that! Forget it! Don't mention it! WHY?????

THERE IS NOT JUST ONE BLACK EXPERIENCE! There is not just ONE black community! ALL blacks in poverty are not there because of absense of opportunity and all those with ivy league degrees don't have them SOLELY because Daddy or Mommy had one!

Some who find sharing observations about a novel a relaxing proposition for an evening with friends may not like to do so at caberet's and some who find a caberet a desireable way to share time with friends may not care to discuss a novel. Why try to dictate that there should be some sacrifice of self in an effort to pretend that we are all the same because we share racial heritage???

The issues of the rural african americas are NOT being addressed. The issues of the suburban african americans (ESPECIALLY in UPPER CLASS largely white suburbs) will not be discussed at Smiley's State of the Black Union this year.

While many our kids from all walks of life go to college we will not hear our black intelligensia focus on the myriad of problems and dangers and pitfalls that face those children this year but we will certainly hear them talk passionately about those kids who don't get to go to college. We MAKE those children who do get into college in a very real way invisible! We make those who enter the work force in management or with advanced degrees invisible!

What amazes me about the conversation here is that everyone writing seems so well informed and likely well educated. Have you asked yourself what relationship will await your grandchildren and your greatgrands with the less fortunate african american communites? Will you want them to feel shame when they recount YOUR struggles and successes? Will you want them to cling to the hood with all of the overwelmingly difficult challenges that would face them there just to be able to claim some sort of kinship to those unfortunate enough to be fighting the battles that you have fought IN LARGE PART so that they would not have to fight them (or die trying)?

If not— then I for ONE of a long line of the “Our Kind of People” would surely appreciate it if you would stop bad mouthing me and mine just because my great great grandfather fought the battles a few decades (or even a century) ahead of you!! I would request that you cease and desist disregarding my great grandfather who was killed by whites because he was a wealthy and successful man who trafficked black men out of Alabama in coffins when lynch mobs were looking for them.

I would like you to STOP discrediting my grandfather who had to leave Alabama with his wife and six children in a heartbeat because he was too wealthy and too educated and owned too much of the silly town that housed the white men who came looking for him one night!

I would hope you would think twice before bad mouthing my mother who read that book to see how often her name and the names of her friends appeared there but who EVERY DAY OF HER LIFE worked to further the history of african americans and dedicated her life (and a hell of a lot of my fathers money) to trying to make it possible for more african americans to have a choice to go to college and join those sororities and fraternities that you poo poo so readily!

These people who are being diminished WERE welfare before Roosevelt! They were Medicaid and Legal Aid! They WERE meals on wheels and the Salvation Army!

So give it a little more thought — both retrospectively and prospectively — the next time you want to put your noses up in the air and complain about their existence, PLEASE!