Jack & Jill Politics

I was terrorist fist jabbed today in Wassila when I helped a client fix a network problem

lol

It looks like Joe and Jil Biden made it out alive today

WASHINGTON (AFP) –

Vice President Dick Cheney welcomed his successor, vice president-elect Joseph Biden, to his official residence Thursday, shrugging off his visitor's stinging campaign trail attacks.

Biden arrived at the vice president's official Naval Observatory residence in northwest Washington with his wife Jill, and posed for photographs with Cheney and his wife Lynne.

During the 50-minute visit, the couples held a private meeting and the Cheneys gave their guests a tour of the ornate residence, said the vice president's spokeswoman, Megan Mitchell.

"It was a good visit. The Cheneys enjoyed giving the Bidens a tour of the residence and wished them well as they make it their home in January," she said in a statement.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081113/pl_afp/usp...

NEW INAUGURATION EVENING OPEN THREAD IS UP!

This is really a shame:

http://www.kidk.com/news/local/34232724.html

Damn, it's times like this I miss Ed Bradley. He would have been perfect for this interview.

Co-signing, CPL my husband and I said the same thing.

One question. Where are the trolls? It's been pretty peaceful around here since election day.

Nooo Noooo! You spoke it!! You've put it out there in the universe! OK....I've gotta turn towards the east, chant "Begone Satan!" 5 times and spin in a reverse circle to reverse the spell...hopefully it works.

Don't do this again!

my point was that the election silenced them....

HEY! ALL: OFF TOPIC:

ANSWER: Whooooo! Hoooo! and YES!!!

QUESTION: MAY I ASK YOUR DAUGHTER TO MARRY ME THIS SATURDAY!??

HOW IT HAPPENED: So, I'm sitting in the local "greasy spoon" eatin' my ABSOLUTELY GREASY "fish & chips"and cole slaw and drinking a DIET Coke!
My Blue Tooth rings [NOTE: I'm in the 21st Century! :>)] and it's HIM! After exchanging cordialities & finding out that my daughter was O.K., he fumbled around some more, then he said - "May I ask your daughter to marry me on this Sat.!?"

NOW - THE ANSWER!! :>)

I LIT up the PLACE! Then I announced "what ha' happened" and they all YELLED 2!! :>)

It was GREAT!!! :>) :>)

So I'm SHARING WITH MY "PEEPS!" :>) :>)

I'm very happy!! She is ECSTATIC!! :>) :>)

Congratulations to you and your daughter!

Honey01: THANK YOU VERY MUCH!! :>) :>) I'll let her know! :>) :>)

Awww.....Hmmm Wah

Congrats! You're going to be a great In-Law! I wish them the best!

Woo Hoo!

Justice58: THANK YOU VERY MUCH!! :>) :>)

Whooo! Hooo! :>) :>)

Oh, love.

Congratulations!

CraigHickman: THANK YOU VERY MUCH!! :>) They SHARE that!! :>)

Congrats!

Sepia: THANK YOU VERY MUCH! :>) :>)

Congratulations!!!!!!! I'm sure you'll be hosting some events.

msmartin: THANK YOU VERY MUCH! :>) :>)

You betta believe it! :>) :>)

Mazel tov, that's great news. And now you're stuck with the agony of not spilling the beans for the next 48 hours LOL

MsKitty: THANK YOU VERY MUCH!! :>)

My lips are SEALED!! Whew!! EXCITED DEEP BREATHS!! :>) :>)

Congratulations!

TruthSeeker: THANK YOU VERY MUCH! :>) :>)

OMG! How exciting! Can't wait for new developments.

sdg1844: THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

I'll let errybody KNOW. :>) :>)

Oh how wonderful! Congrats to you and your daughter!

He is getting a really cool mother-in-law!

Ok..so...is the JJP fam invited to the wedding?

Texas_Girl: THANK YOU VERY MUCH!.

You "BETCHA!" **WINK**. [ YUK! ] :>) :>)

THANKS, AGAIN!! :>)

Congratulatons, GreenLadyHere! Many Blesings and joy to you, your daughter and family.

spirit_55z: THANK YOU VERY MUCH! :>) :>) We are blessed! :>)

Congratulations!
And maybe in a few years you will be Grandma!

jelana: THANK YOU VERY MUCH!! :>) :>)

It will be my FIRST! :>) But, I'm patient!! :>)

John McCain is across the street here, speaking for Saxby Chambliss....its a shame...I mean...this lonely officer directing pedestrians because the traffic is pretty much no more than it normally is right now. Poor fella...standing out in the cold rain for nothing. I didn't even know this was going on until a co-worker said something a lil while ago. Talk about having NO buzz....what a shame.

Miranda: LOL!! Was "Ms. WHATEVER Cindy" with him!?

No buzz! Like a bee without wings! :>)

OOPs! I forgot! The "piece on the side" HAS her OWN "piece on the side!" HAH! :>)

rikyrah: ON MSNBC: BEGICH LEADING BY 814!! Whoooo! Hooo! :>)



Gotta "bounce" for a minute!!! :>) :>)

Ted Hayes, a black Californian, who has organized the Crispus Attucks Brigade, and has affiliated this group with the border-watching Minutemen, claims that black politicians who support immigrant "rights" are "leading blacks in a circle." Hayes believes that this issue will be their "undoing."

It might also be their undoing for reasons not yet explicitly formulated. For, if this tidal wave of industrious Chinese, Koreans, Indians, Arabs and Vietnamese does not abate, and members of these groups acquire national power and influence, there will be little patience demonstrated for those groups known for not carrying their share of the economic load.

Who will there be to patiently indulge the heavily consumer-oriented, non-producing blacks, for example? Already feeling the impact of immigrant groups that are imbued with a fervent work ethic, through lowered wages and ethnic employment networks that shut them out from jobs, blacks will discover there is worse to come.

When the white population falls below the 50% mark, the days of whites running interference for blacks will be over. And so will those special laws biased towards safeguarding prerequisites for the "Disadvantaged," which can be mighty expensive to enforce.

What are the odds that those 18th century injunctions devised by those funny little men in britches and waistcoats will prevail, once the polyglot new Americans from Asia and Central and South America begin to flex their political muscle?

So many blacks and their white liberal gurus failed to appreciate those Anglo-originated laws based on "self-evident truths" and the consent of the governed, which were flexible enough to take under their protection the nation's former slaves. Who will there be to insure that jobs and scholarships and government contracts, and the surfeit of other entitlements, will be available for a people who have grown used to looking to others for slices from the economic pie, instead of baking their own share of it?

Once what's left of constitutional law is gone, partly out of neglect, because the story of the Constitution and its creators will no longer be taught in the various Chinese-Indian-Latino-Arab colored school systems, a new corner will be turned. If blacks think they've been mistreated at the hands of whites, just wait until affirmative action, is over—when there is no one to insist that we get undeserved perks, or have a "right" to intrude ourselves into places where we are not wanted. Because we fought and died to get those rights and privileges.

The new dominant ethnics come to this land with their own sob stories of oppression. Unlike whites, they are hardly likely to fall over one another to apologize for past wrongs. Nor are they likely to spend their time in Congress concocting new laws designed to discriminate against their own sons and daughters in favor of blacks.

"Reparations," did you say? Just wait until the first move is made to un-name and re-name some of those Martin Luther King, Jr. boulevards.

"If the U.S. becomes something along the lines of Mexico or Guatemala or China or Senegal or Pakistan, we all stand to lose something."

And once that something is lost, there will be no white folks to harangue, from whom to demand restitution for yet another assortment of grievances.

You subscribe Blacks as having no mental capacity, strategizing or organizing ability to display leadership qualities to determine their fate. Part of that process is establishing an agenda and course of action and vetting allies and obstacles. If you think white people are protecting Blacks from other PoC you should reevaluate your entire perspective. White people are losing their dominance in numbers. Pitting PoC against each other suits their survival, not ours. Although all PoC don't have the same agenda that doesn't mean there can't be common ground found and there's room for all of us if we do our part.

wrb is plagiarizing from a conservative blog:

http://www.vdare.com/misc/060912_wright.htm

Makes sense. I won't support traffic feed to idiots. Why do some people insist on using other people's talking points instead of forming a semblance of an opinion and studying all the angles of a subject before putting their foot up their...in their mouths?

Respectively, this comes from a place of impotence and reliance. It sounds as if white men didn't entervine and help the poor black folk along, they would be out sourced from jobs. The fact that we have a black president elect is the manifestation of the contrary. Don't fight over the crumbs, when you can bake the bread.

rikyrah: Thursday, November 13, 2008; DAY -68 on his "JOURNEY TO JANUARY!":

1. WORD(S) of the DAY: COMPREHENSIVE JOB APPLICATION

2. HEADLINE: FOR A WASHINGTON JOB, BE PREPARED TO TELL ALL

Want a top job in the Obama administration? Only pack rats need apply, preferably those not packing controversy.
A seven-page questionnaire being sent by the office of President-elect Barack Obama to those seeking cabinet and other high-ranking posts may be the most extensive — some say invasive — application ever.

The questionnaire includes 63 requests for personal and professional records, some covering applicants’ spouses and grown children as well, that are forcing job-seekers to rummage from basements to attics, in shoe boxes, diaries and computer archives to document both their achievements and missteps.

Only the smallest details are excluded; traffic tickets carrying fines of less than $50 need not be reported, the application says. Applicants are asked whether they or anyone in their family owns a gun. They must include any e-mail that might embarrass the president-elect, along with any blog posts and links to their Facebook pages.

The application also asks applicants to “please list all aliases or ‘handles’ you have used to communicate on the Internet.”

The vetting process for executive branch jobs has been onerous for decades, with each incoming administration erecting new barriers in an effort to avoid the mistakes of the past, or the controversies of the present. It is typically updated to reflect technological change (there was no Facebook the last time a new president came to town).

But Mr. Obama has elevated the vetting even beyond what might have been expected, especially when it comes to applicants’ family members, in a reflection of his campaign rhetoric against lobbying and the back-scratching, self-serving ways of Washington.

“President-elect Obama made a commitment to change the way Washington does business, and the vetting process exemplifies that,” said Stephanie Cutter, chief spokeswoman for the Obama transition office.

SKIP

Just in case the previous 62 questions do not ferret out any potential controversy, the 63rd is all-encompassing: “Please provide any other information, including information about other members of your family, that could suggest a conflict of interest or be a possible source of embarrassment to you, your family, or the president-elect.”

The answer could duplicate the response to Question 8: “Briefly describe the most controversial matters you have been involved with during the course of your career.”

For those who clear all the hurdles, the reward could be the job they wanted. But first there will be more forms, for security and ethics clearances from the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Office of Government Ethics.

My response: Love it!! President-Elect Obama wants NO DRAMA!! YES !!
Just like any job, complete the application and pray. :>) He will make the wisest decision like he has done in the past, in order to get the BEST & BRIGHTEST and most ETHICAL! :>)

3. On the HORIZON:

Norton's OBAMA Documentary Draws Worldwide Interest

A documentary, more than two years in the making, about President-elect Barack Obama's campaign is gathering significant interest from international distributors just days after being picked up in the United States by HBO. A team of directors and editors backed by the actor Edward Norton is furiously editing the untitled project.

Given the historic nature of Mr. Obama's victory and worldwide interest in the presidential race, the film is drawing attention from the BBC and other foreign broadcasters. Since the HBO acquisition was announced, "we've had an enormous number of incoming calls from territories all over the world," said Andrew Hurwitz, an entertainment lawyer who is representing the film along with the talent agency Endeavor.

Behind-the-scenes snapshots of campaigns have become a documentary staple, with "The War Room," about President Bill Clinton's 1992 run, and "Journeys With George," about President Bush's 2000 race, being two recent examples. The film about Mr. Obama's 21-month campaign may prove to be an especially big draw overseas.

Read the whole story here.

As I've said B4, President-Elect Obama has STIMULATED ECONOMICS - SINGLE-HANDEDLY! :>)

That's ALL! :>)

AHA! Thought I forgot the SONG/Video! :>)

GET A JOB (The Silhouettes)

Oooooo-eeeeee! Waaaaay "back in my day!" I'm dancin'!! :>) :>)

President-Elect Obama! :>) First Lady Michelle! :>) Whooo! Hoooo! :>)

Okay, I am not even going to read this AP story because I don't care what she has to "say" -- but the headline amused me so much i am going to post it here:

Palin urges GOP governors to keep Democrats honest

Excellent!

And in other news, William Shatner urges colleagues to keep actors from relying on stilted and melodramatic acting techniques.

Or ... something like that but maybe funnier (that's the best I can do in a hurry)

(also I have been in a very studied "Palin who?" approach so far but that headline was so funny to me I couldn't resist)

"We are the minority party," Palin said at a session on "Looking Towards the Future: The GOP in Transition." "Let us resolve not to be the negative party."

"Still, she took a swipe or two at President-elect Barack Obama. She said with governors, "the buck stops on our desk. ... We are not the many voting yea or nay or present." While an Illinois state lawmaker, Obama often voted "present," a practice the GOP criticized during the campaign."

-Somebody needs to give her the hook and drag her off stage!

Most definitely! Talk about nutty!

Admiral: LOL!! :>) :>)

Where was "Sandman Sam?" :>) :>) [Or the "new man?]

LMAO!!!

What the hell is Bush yammering about on TV?

whiterosebuddy: I 'on't know!! Is he still the president?? :>)

I'on't think so....he quit that long time ago..member? He is the decider. : > )

whiterosebuddy: LOL! :>)

You know what would be must see tv? A pubic "conversation" between Bush and Palin.

NMP: **WHISPERING ONLY TO YOU** A pubic ????? :>) :>) :>)

Don't WORRY! No one else knows. :>) :>) :>)

We would need translators.

Miranda: Does anyone know PAGEANT-SPEAK!???

How about SHRUB-SPEAK????

I'm just askin. . . . .

HA!

CTFU!!!

That would be hilarious

Dumb and Dumber!!!!

We need to be talking about the escalating violence in the Congo and our use of their minerals for cell phones.

http://www.womenforwomen.org/congo

hurray obama!

that's quite a simple attitude, but it's certainly a positive one.

An awkward press conference

http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/11...

After much anticipation from a room full of reporters and other curiosity-seekers, Sarah Palin this morning took four questions from reporters in a press conference that lasted 11 minutes.

Actually, taking away Texas Gov. Rick Perry's opening statement, the session lasted under 10 minutes.

Palin was on stage with 13 other Republican governors — all men — who received zero attention from the assembled crowd.

After the third question, an RGA aide tried to end the session but Perry interjected and allowed for a fourth question.

Palin sought to deflect attention from herself and talk about the governors as a group, but all the questions centered on her past and future.


Duh.........It was awkward because she is an embarrassment! She has no substance.....just plain ignorant! Geeeeeeeeeez.... Make it stop!

ELEVEN MINUTES?

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA

OMG

From what the press is saying, that was ten too many.

Justice58: Co-sign!

WHO WROTE THAT DRIVEL THAT purported to pass for a SPEECH!! WHAT???

Annnnnnd, she didn't READ it well - AT ALL! OMG!!!!

Forget about her.If the republicans want to go down the path of ignorance they will be further marginalized.It is our time to govern and we need to stay focus on helping President Obama.

Gotta agree with you here.

If this is the future of the Republican Party-God help them-then all you Democrats/liberals need to do is find a worthy successor to President Obama for 2016 (sorry, I don't see Biden running for the presidency).

D: ABSOLUTELY "NO", on Biden! Annnnnnd, I don't believ' that he would want to!! :>)

D: I have to know.In the privacy of the voting booth did you pull that lever for President Obama?LOL

You're not the first to ask me that.

No, I didn't.

So please tell me that Barr was your pick because I will not believe you went for McCain knowing Palin was on the ticket.

I voted for McCain, fully knowing that he would lose. Don't regret it at all.

Why D, Why?


Damn, Damn, Damn ,James!!!!!!!

From my <a href="
http://dillarddoctrine.wordpress.com/2008/10/28...
blog post before the election:


When it's all said and done, a vote for the presidency should be a vote
for the person who best represents *you*. Your ideals, your values, your
beliefs.

John McCain represents many of the same political philosophies I do. I
believe that he will carry my concerns with him to the White House. I *do
not*, however, condone his cynicism, or the "slash and burn" politics that
he has come to embody.

So I'll vote for him. With no pleasure at all. The consequences of that
decision will be what they are.

And should Obama win, I will not lament McCain's defeat.

You are too funny!

I wonder why the other two republican female governors were not in attendance.

They were wearing the same outfit as Palin?

Admiral: LOL!! :>) :>) :>) Good one!! :>)

Too funny! ...or they had on some of the repossessed RNC clothes!

ARP: RAOTFL!!!! :>) :>) Very good!!!! :>) :>)

And being the competitive beauty pagent person she is, she "accidentally" spilled some red punch on them?

Miranda: "Whycome" I have one theory: Were they "encouraged" [by party leadership] NOT to attend!? As in, so that "Ms. THANG" could be a "star"!
Hmmmmm.?

President-Elect Obama!:>) First Lady Michelle! :>)

If you're right, worse than being discouraged to attend, would be their agreement to not do so...

TruthSeeker: Wish some reporter would ASK and then attempt to answer YOUR question. I'm jus not believin' that they would stay away because they "HAD A PREVIOUS ENGAGEMENT!" :>) They KNEW! :>)

...or so they would not be tainted by appearing with that nitwit.

msmartin: RAOTFL!!! 2 FUNNY!!! :>) :>) :>)

Somebody explain to me why Obama is being so 'understanding' of LIEberman.

http:www.americablog.com/2008/11/obama-making-phone-calls-on-behalf-of.html

I found this post yesterday that explained why Obama is being the way he is with LIEberman. If true, the President-Elect is indeed a man who studies history and LEARNS FROM IT.

http://driftglass.blogspot.com/2008/11/barack-o...

Another post:

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/11/13/whats-rea...

Thanks for the link, there's at least some people who are looking at the big picture. I'm getting hella annoyed with all the bitching and moaning going on right now about how Obama is weak because he won't kick Lieberman to the curb (John Aravosis, I'm looking at you). As an unapologetic progressive, I know I'm not going to agree with everything Obama does but I knew that going in. The man has mad political skills, how else do you think he was able to fend off the Clintons, the Republicans, and the MSM with basically one hand tied behind his back? It was no accident. From here, it looks like keeping Lieberman around is a classic case of keep your friends close but your enemies closer.

Folks need to chill out and let this unfold for a little bit.

The problem is as Chair of the Homeland Security Committee he can supoena any one from the White House over any matter. The Big Lie did nothing to keep the current occupant of the White House on the straight and narrow. What reason do you have to believe given his actions towards Sen Obama he won't act out against President Obama in his capacity as Chair? keeping them close does not mean he is in a position of power to do real damage.

MsKitty: MAJOR, MAJOR CO-SIGN!!! CHILL!!!

President-Elect Obama!! :>) First Lady Michelle! :>) :>)

I'm with you Ms Kitty

I hear you, Rikyrah.

I actually thought about my Poli Sci 101 days and Machiavelli's "The Prince",
specifically Chapter 20, Section 5. According to Cliff Notes:

"Machiavelli devotes the largest portion of this chapter to making the point that those people who are under suspicion turn out to be the most trustworthy servants of the new prince...he points out that those who are insecure in their positions work harder and are more motivated to prove themselves to the prince than those whom the prince trusts...

http://education.yahoo.com/homework_help/cliffs...

Holla! ;-)

Denise,

hee hee hee

How I love when life imitates art.

I think Obama realizes that Lieberman is irrelevant without the Democratic Party. Think about it: if he switches parties, he'll never win another Senate seat. If he keeps shilling for the GOP, he'll be stripped of his committee seat. And now that McCain has been sent packing, Joe has been forced to see reality. Either he plays ball with Barack, or he walks away as Mr. Irrelevant.

Besides, if he still votes 90% of the time with the Democrats, he might still have some use.

Ronnie: he might still have some use.

"Whycome" you SPOKE THE TRUTH!?? :>) :>)

It doesn't want to repeat the same mistake of '06 when the far left made a martyr out of him. He warned the likes of Maxine Waters and Al Sharpton that Liebermann would win the general election as an Independent and have far more power and sway than he otherwise would have as an elected Democrat.

How would it serve President Obama to have Liebermann caucusing with Republicans or resign and have the Republican Governor of CT appoint a Republican to his vacated seat? It wouldn't. Obama has studied the past mistakes of both Democratic and Repubilcan majorities, and he'll do is damndest not to make the same mistakes, starting with putting long-term goals above petty revenge.

NMP,

none of that explains why Lieberman shouldn't be stripped of his committee leadership or at least moved to a less visible one. As it stands now Lieberman is head of a committee that is responsible for investigating the president. Lieberman refused to investigate Bush - even when he was urged to do so after Katrina. With Lieberman being so closely allied to people who are determined to see Obama fail it would be foolish to allow him to remain where he is and risk him using the committee to embarrass Obama for the next 4 years. I have seen reports Obama is OK with Lieberman remaining in the caucus but I haven't seen much endorsing the idea of retaining his committee chair.

If he's stripped of his committee leadership, he quits then the Republican governor of CT appoints a true Republican. Sitting as chairman of Homeland Security is going to disrupt President Obama's priorities? Lieberman knows he's being watched. After President Obama's public generosity towards Lieberman, he's not going to do anythig foolish. If that happened, his most loyal constituents and friends like Dodd and Kerry would be leading the charge for his dismissal.

You catch more flies with honey......

and then when they get stuck to the honey you can really squash them good with a rolled up newspaper.

Miranda: Co-sign! LOL! :>)

My take on it is this.The one thing LIE-berman craves is being relevant,so he might play nice knowing that at anytime if he steps out of line the hammer will fall.President Obama has that hammer. Remember when the Rev. Wright fiasco got started President Obama stood and defended him.It was only after Rev.Wright got out of line President Obama drove the bus over him.LIE-berman is in the same position,President Obama will forgive and even let you remain somewhat relevant but eff-up one time,your anus will be discarded to the dust bin of history.

Perfect.

dj: Co-sign! Well said! :>)

I hope so cuz he needs to go.

http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/b...

Staff Writer Gregory Lewis reports:

Dorsey Miller, one of the state's most prominent black Republicans, has left the Grand Old Party, returning to the Democratic Party he left 27 years ago.

"It's devastating for the Republican Party in Broward County and the state," said Clarence McKee, a Broward County black Republican who serves on Gov. Charlie Crist's African American Council. "He's invaluable. It's great gain for the local Democrats. He raises money for campaigns."

Miller switched parties on Election Day. He said his switch back to the Democratic Party was made easier by the "campaign of John McCain and his selection of Sarah Palin for Vice President."

Miller announced his support of Democrat Barack Obama during the primary season. He held a fundraiser for Obama at his Parkland home.

He said working with Broward officials on the Obama campaign "convinced me that it was time for me to return to my political roots."


As a Republican confidant of Gov. Jeb Bush and his brother, President George W. Bush, Miller was influential in getting black judges Elijah Williams and Mary Rudd Robinson appointed to the bench in Broward County and the choice of Brenda Snipes as Supervisor of Elections replacing Miriam Oliphant.

He said he was "frustrated" in not being able to make more impact "in the lives of our people through my involvement in the Republican Party."

Miller said that the Democratic Party is more open to improving the lives of black people and that he can have input into how that is done. "Democrats have shown the inclination to reach out and to help black communities."

I think that as more of us black conservatives/Republicans begin to realize the full extent of the GOP's slavish obedience to hyper-conservatism, a couple of things are gonna happen:

1. they're going to switch parties (as above), or
2. they're going to get frustrated with life in general and remove themselves from the political scene (read: Colin Powell).

Slowly but surely!

The big tent is on the left, Dorsey.

Wow. Interesting. For someone who was 'frustrated' about not being able to make MORE impact...looks like he had quite an impact, in terms of those judge and supervisor appointments. That was a big deal.

Miller is welcome back because he is a progressive politician who knows how to use the system effectively to move folks into positions of political power. It is clear that he understands political expediency.

I can work with that. Look as I know what his stripes are. We can find common ground.

ABA Journal
Attorney General
Obama Urged to Withdraw DOJ’s Legal Opinions on Terrorism

Posted 40 minutes ago
By Debra Cassens Weiss

Barack Obama is being urged to restore public confidence in the Justice Department by keeping politics out of decision-making and reforming the Office of Legal Counsel.

The critics say former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales damaged the department by allowing politics to influence hiring and firing, and that has to change, the Washington Post reports. "Great damage has been done to the credibility and effectiveness of the Justice Department," according to an opinion piece last month written by two of the critics, Senators Patrick Leahy and Arlen Specter.........

http://www.abajournal.com/news/obama_urged_to_w...

Everybody thinks they're qualified to tell the new black president what to do.

You know, Bush came in under an "Anything But Clinton" policy, and even his supporters have to admit that may not have been the best course of action.

I understand there's blood in the water, but I'm not sure rolling back every single thing Bush has done is the best course of action, either.

Yeah... In the case of the DOJ and Homeland Security...

It is.

Why do you think that?

And you do realize that rolling back anything on DHS
essentially means starting from square one (or, dare I say, 9/12/01),
since they didn't exist before the Bush Admin?

You seriously okay with that?

From The Washington Independent:
"This Is What the 2008 Electoral Map Would Look Like if the Election Were Decided by [Fill In the Blank]"

http://washingtonindependent.com/17988/this-is-...

The site uses DISQUS comments like JJP does, so feel free to correct some folks as needed.

He finally gets to tell his side of the story...and shut up the fools at Fox and Coon Network News.

I hope this will be a lesson for the Hillbilly trash!

Some of my friends are hillbillies who worked very hard to elect Barack Obama.

This is about Sarah Palin. She's trash. The RNC know it as well. This is why they spent $150,000 on her in order to fix her up. This is why she was protected from giving interviews because they knew she was going to eff up and she did!

The End!

Justice58: Major co-sign!! "She's trash. "

SAY THE TRUTH!!! :>)

ANNNND comes from a family of GRIFTERS.

I cannot emphasize that enough.

CPL: CO-SIGNING WITH EMPHASIS!! :>) :>)

Justsice58, don't count on it. Sociopaths have neither the drive or inclination to learn lessons.

MsKitty,

You know she's such a cutie! Both girls are so adorable!

Okay....oooooooh I can't wait, I can't wait until they move into the White House!

Woo Hoo!

Given some of the comments on this thread, I think a little history will help bring the immigration issue into better perspective. Subsequent to the 1964 Civil Rights Act there was the passage of the 1965 Immigration Reform Act which had a profound impact on black economic and social progress.

1965 Immigration Reform Act, which put an end to earlier restrictions on immigration. With the passage of this law, not only did 35 million immigrants enter the country, 26 million of them were eligible for the preferences oulined in the Civil Rights Act that primarily black Americans had fought and died for over 100 years of struggle.

In an unexpected consequence of legalized reverse discrimination, employers were able to meet the now-mandated racial quotas with immigrants from foreign lands. Further, about the impact of immigration in general, though economists differ on the economic effects of immigration on native labor, it is fairly clear that it depressed low-wage native employment and income levels. ( native being us, not Indians)

Yet, even in the face of stark reality, black leadership organizations did not support restrictions on immigration. In fact, by the end of the 1990s, they opposed restrictions outright. The pattern among black elites—politicians, academics, community leaders—consistently has been to make alliances with other elites, in order to insure support for their ever-expanding demands on Establishment whites. These blacks continued to nurse the notion that any alliances with other "minorities" would give them greater power in the race intimidation game being played out against the white adversary.

The pandering of such blacks is limitless, since they are forever on the look-out for ways to expand their influence. In 1999, for instance, the NAACP announced a major campaign to recruit Hispanics into the organization. Billed as a "nationwide initiative," Las Vegas Chapter President Gene Collins explained the mission as a "fight for the disadvantaged regardless of ethnicity." When asked to explain why the NAACP would turn its attention to another racial group, Collins pompously proclaimed, "We have to save the world in order to save ourselves."

Why Hispanics should seek help from a black civil rights organization was not made clear. Well, it's 9 years later, and the campaign does not seem to have picked up any steam.

Bottomline, Black folks need to wake up and understand they are being left behind again and that the Hispanics are not making alliances ...there does not need to be a divisiveness atttitude...but there does need to be a reality check.

Immigration has not been a boon to the black community when it comes to wages or employment at ANY level.

I'm taking all of what you said with a grain of salt. However, this line is problematic:

"Bottomline, Black folks need to wake up and understand they are being left behind again and that the Hispanics are not making alliances ...there does not need to be a divisiveness atttitude...but there does need to be a reality check."

Hispanics are not being engaged as equals by the NAACP or by SOME Black people. I have so many issues with the NAACP in general, so I'll self disclose that up front.
Not that any of these historical organizations have bothered to understand the issues associated with being undocumented or even the issues of being newly emigrated. The NAACP as many other orgs still defines Blackness with the American slave narrative which excludes MANY Black people such as Caribbean people etc. Trust me I have had those conversations. I have sat on the panels. We are still looked at like lesser, particularly from middle and upper middle class African Americans. The reality check, as far as I see, is the need for a better understanding of our own personal prejudices concerning this group of people. I am no exception, and neither are you.

I am more focused on the huge economic, social and political impact like this:

In the late 1990s, when a battle between blacks and Latinos for dominance of the Martin Luther King, Jr. Medical Center in Los Angeles, broke into full throttle.

When the medical facility was opened by the county in 1972, South Central Los Angeles was predominantly black. In those early years through the 1980s, the King Center provided a plethora of jobs for blacks—from professional medical personnel and administrative positions, down to maintenance jobs.

By 1998, not only were most of the hospital's clientele, i.e. patients and visitors, Latino, most conversations were conducted in Spanish. It was not long before the new residents of South Central began to push for the hiring of Spanish-speaking doctors, nurses and other staff. Washington Post reporter Michael Fletcher, writing about the discord in 1998, called the struggle a "pitched racial battle." [ In L.A., a Sense of Future Conflicts, April 7, 1998] Not only did Latinos file lawsuits against the hospital for rank discrimination, but a doctor from India also sued for the same reason. The fight was on for county jobs.

And pandering 'leaders' we have to suffer through like this:

There is no more notorious public figure than Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee, who represents the 18th District in Texas, and is the ranking member of the Judiciary Subcommittee on Immigration, Border Security, Claims. Jackson Lee, who, for good reason, in 1998, was named the "biggest windbag in Congress" by the Washingtonian magazine, never tires of repeating that worn-out cliché about America being a "nation of immigrants." Hence, we should relax and play our proper role as host to the teeming masses of the planet.

She characterizes herself as a courageous crusader who stands against "hatred and bashing" of immigrants, which she defines as almost any criticism of the current mass influx. According to Jackson Lee, those blacks who forcefully oppose mass immigration are simply naive and are being "baited" into taking such negative positions.

She regularly attends and speaks at Hispanic-Latino events and in August2006, at a meeting of the Labor Council for Latin American Advancement (LCLAA), an affiliate of the AFL-CIO, she boasted of having partnered with this group "on a number of occasions to combat legislation that poses a threat to the communities we serve."

She lives for the platitude, and the more shamelessly sentimental, the better. At this meeting, she played the music her audience wanted to hear: "Those undocumented immigrants [as she calls illegals] harvest our crops, tend our gardens, care for our children and parents." These same illegals should not be offered an "armed escort back to the place of economic and political hopelessness they fled." She then waxed eloquent, as she revved up her preacher mode, telling her Hispanic flock to be of good cheer "for the Scriptures tell us that 'weeping may last for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.'"

Can this woman pander, or what?

She can even pull a soliloquy out of her bag of tricks, as she intones: "Somewhere down South, more precisely down Southwest across the Rio Grande from El Paso, Laredo, Corpus Christi, or Brownsville . . . . Or maybe just south of Tucson or San Diego or Douglas, Arizona – there is a family in Old Mexico anxiously about to embark on their own journey to the New World of America."

Not if we can get those fences up fast enough.

According to Jackson Lee, everything good is owed to those who "risk death in the desert" or "risk capture and crime." Such people should not have to hide themselves from U.S. law, as they "work in sunlight but live in twilight, between the shadows . . ."

On the one hand, she tries to associate herself with those who take a tough stance on border patrol enforcement, while, on the other hand, she claims that "our border security needs more than just fences and deportations." When informed that fences and deportation might be a good place to begin, she changes the subject.

Jackson Lee has consistently voted for amnesty bills, among them a bill she co-sponsored with Rep. Richard Gephardt in 2002, which would have created amnesty for about 6.5 million illegal aliens. This bill also would have ended the annual cap on family-based immigration and increased "chain" migration by about 250,000 a year.

This is the kind of representation that American blacks can expect from a Congressional Black Caucus, whose members live in fear of their districts' changing demographics. In California, when mass migration from south of the border induced employers to cut hourly wages in half, native-born black and Hispanic Americans lost their jobs as janitors and porters. When some of them tried to tell their stories at a Washington D.C. meeting, they were scolded and derided for their "intolerance."

At a hearing on immigration, in 1999, Sheila Jackson Lee could hardly wait to drop the "racist" tag on whoever challenged her rosy assessment of the manifold blessings that accrue to the U.S. from the "hard working" migrants, who come uninvited to our land. At that Judiciary Committee's Oversight Hearing, former auto mechanic turned talk show host, Terry Anderson, a black man, described the impact of years of mass immigration in his region. A 45-year resident of South Central Los Angeles, Anderson has had a first row seat watching illegal aliens transform his neighborhood. He told the Committee about the jobs at McDonald's that are no longer available if you don't speak Spanish, of the bilingual classrooms where English-speaking children must listen to endless translations into Spanish, and of one-family homes that now house five families, whose costs have almost doubled.

He spoke of all those jobs that "Americans won't do," that were being done as recently as 15 years prior by Americans who worked as roofers, framers, drywallers, body and fender repairmen and truck drivers.

Prior to the mass deluge, native-born minority citizens dominated these occupations and were able to sustain their families on their salaries. Anderson was pleading for enforcement of laws against ILLEGAL immigration.

Jackson Lee was determined to put on the defensive both Anderson and the others who had come with him to testify at the hearing. Reminding them of the many "of us" who "came to this nation in an immigrant form," she referred to slaves brought here against their will as "illegal immigrants." And then, like so many pretentious black professionals of her class, she implied to these working class people that they should not even be employed in the kind of drudgery they spoke about.

You see, physical labor should be considered beneath blacks, "who have been here now for 400-plus years." Blacks, according to her, "deserve a little bit more uplift." Not that the good lady, sitting there in her designer suit, wished to "downgrade," as she put it, such workers. She just wanted to stress how much blacks (just because they're blacks, apparently) deserve more than low-end jobs.

To the likes of Jackson Lee, the advocates and supporters of those "undocumented" hewers of wood, like the members of the LCLAA, are just another constituency to be courted and won. So what if these foreign cooks, cleaners and cutters of grass take away livelihoods from the American citizens now being displaced? You can almost hear her brain at work: "One population is the same as another, if I can only stay in power."

For Jackson Lee, and the rest of the members of the Congressional Black Caucus, it's all about establishing and maintaining a voting bloc. As they frantically work to win and keep the confidence of the burgeoning Hispanic populations in their respective districts


Black folks better wake UP!!!
Just cause Sheila JacksonLee looks like you don't mean she has your economic interest at heart...she is in it for all the political constituents in her district that are hispanic.

I'm gonna have to agree with you on Jackson Lee. Excellent points.

OMG they are taking over!!!! LOCK your doors! Guard your children!

Is this your Limbaugh side?

By the way, when you cut and paste another person's blog, it is best to link to the original. Trying to pass it off as your original thought is misleading- unless you are Elizabeth Wright. I was wondering why your diatribes sounded so conservative...

The original is here:
A Black “Old Right Conservative” On The Black Elite’s Immigration Betrayal
By Elizabeth Wright

http://www.vdare.com/misc/060912_wright.htm

Wow I can't believe I'm actually agreeing with you. I've said if Obama decided to pull a gangsta move and give Blacks some semblance of reparations that would be administered through a program with open applications we would collectively not be ready to participate in it. And this is also an area where all Black people (w/o allowing an argument over difference in opinion about sexual orientation to derail this) should be prepared to work together to elevate the standard of living and opportunities for working class and poorer people.

A change in mindset needs to happen though! The Black wealthy/elite/intellegentsia are already doing just fine and will for the most part leave the masses to decay (like Katrina) in any time of crisis just as much as your 'racist' white person would.

Also with regards to the cheap labor of bringing in a permanent slave class, these companies and industries are not being fined by the gov't. If the law was applied instead of ICE rounding up people and treating them just as bad as insurgents then there'd be no work and the problem would be greatly diminished. Some of them weren't hiring Black people regardless.

Meat manufacturing/packing
Wineries (no more 2 Buck Chuck)
Vegetables
Construction

I'm sure it goes deeper but there's also the argument that the prices of everything would skyrocket. Then there's also the globalization factor (no) thanks to NAFTA and CAFTA.

But the bottom line is this is a crisis - and has been a Katrina like crisis for us collectively though we are not a monolith and don't agree on everything. There will truly be a Darwin moment and many us will be left behind unless we prepare. And no, I don't think Obama will be able to 'save' us. Not if it came down to that and derailing his Presidency.

The difference is he might feel more torn up about it, but there's no 'extra special alliance' because he has African DNA. Look at the Clinton record vs. the media spin of 'prosperity' and see how well Black people REALLY did under his administration. yet Black people loved to claim the Clintons as one of us. When Bush took office it only got worse and there were plenty of "us" that voted for him anyway because they couldn't see the forest for the trees.

Heartsandflowers,
I don't agree about the part of these employers weren't hiring blacks anyway. They would have had to hire blacks with the Civil Rights Act passage because we were the largest labor pull without access. That was the entire point of affirmative action and quotas. What happened though was the 1965 Immigration Reform Act, provided ANOTHER labor pool and pushed blacks off all rungs of labor, but it is most blatant in the service industry and those making less than $30K a year...that is where we dominated.

Now, we are blocked at the bottom AND the top!!

Our folks unemployment problem was handled by massive incarceration!~
Crack cocaine & hiphop was our way out of noway but it has a well-traveled highway to prison.

You may not agree but you should check Census records and payroll tax records, etc. As has been pointed down thread there are a huge pool of undocumented workers from other countries here besides Mexicans.

My argument isn't about focusing so much on the who, but on the what are we doing to address this apathy amongst Blacks. Nobody made Black people take crack. Nobody makes Black have a criminal mindset and look for easy money by doing illegal things. Yes, white do it too but we know it's a set up and they do it anyway. All of that collective energy could be harnessed and focused for something positive. Why aren't Black people storming the NAACP and other Black orgs about DOING SOMETHING. Even now!? Too many people are waiting to be rescued but they've got a lifevest in their hands. Or within reach if they make the effort.

I don't like what ICE does. They are notorious for human rights violations and raping women. No one deserves that regardless of how they came here.

Also NAFTA decimated the industries of numerous countries causing a lot of these problems. It was to create a permanent slave class.

I will concede and say some PoC are not necessarily allies of other PoC and should not automatically be thought so. There can be a vetting process for determining alliances and demanding reciprocity. Then we can work together for our common interests.

But I will also concede that many other PoC have gotten to benefit from Civil Rights legislation that they or their ancestors did not participate in and they should acknowledge those contributions. If more Black people were utilizing them, it would not be an issue, though.

So again, we come back to racism. But those that were enslaved plotted their freedom and fought it. What is our excuse NOW?!

I hear you. However what about the influx of Afro-Caribbean immigrants like my family. Not all immigrants are Hispanic?

Your family came here legally. Also the post Civil Rights collective did not plan for what to do beyond that because everything was tied up into people waiting for another Messiah to tell them what to do. As well as the fact every Black person was not supportive of the movement but history is always revised by those that survived. The interesting thing is they ARE taking advantage of every available opportunity to uplift themselves and their families. So are African immigrants. It's the home grown Negro that's falling behind, some making the case that wanting to learn and speaking proper English is 'talking white', thinking it's ok to be an underachiever and seeing the racism boogeyman around every corner, thinking every low achieving man has to be 'saved' and not having enough of a vision beyond what is immediately seen.

I completely agree Heartsandflowers.

I hear what you are saying but many Hispanic immigrants also came here legally?I just want to make it clear that there are other blacks who are coming here as immigrants. I am trying to clear up this misconception or common discourse that it centered around immigration being solely Hispanic.

Oh yeah I agree. I wasn't agreeing to everything WRB said just about Black apathy and not seeing the big picture. I responded upthread.

Yes, and I did not mean to imply that the immigrate population was only Hispanic. Rather, that it was the change in the Reform Act that flooded America with immigrants who could take advantage of the Civil Rights Act.

Also Hispanics do dominate the immigrant population in CA and FL...we know Compton and Watts are now hispanic.

Also, while there may be other immigrant groups, they do not dominate the service industry, which was where blacks were mainly employed, like hispanics are.

Many successful blacks who have indeed contributed to the African American community have been Afro-Caribbean. Stricter immigration laws would make it harder for Afro-Caribbeans who America already seems to despise. It has taken my aunt and cousins twice as long to come to this country in recent years than my family who migrated in the 60s, 70s and 80s.

Countries with people of African descent have the hardest rode to immigrate to America.

I agree.

WRB, your points are well taken and thank you for articulating them. My point is that we need a "call to arms" of true and accurate media reporting by neutral jornalist and reproters. Not these mickey mouse, play dough characters who get in front of a tv cameras and twist the truth to serve their own selfish agendas. The Dobbs, Hannitys, etc. they all have a story to tell and they use the stories of others, usually the less fortunate to make a buck.

OIC, gotcha spirit

The basis of the whole argument is fighting for jobs at the bottom of the pay scale. AAs should have never been kept down so long. The real fight is keeping you down and not allowing the race to rise like every other immigrant class. You were freed but only just.

Yeah, the climb up the ladder was blocked when they designated the white female a minority.

Divide and conquer.Pit one group of the African diaspora against another.Pit Hispanic against African- Americans..Poor whites against poor people of color.This is our time .All of our time.

Thank you djchefron! I was so feeling disheartened by this whole discourse which, quite frankly, strikes me as a racist diabtribe against undocumented immigrants. You said what was in my heart, but I didn't know how to express it. Bless you!

Lisa

No bless you.I am sick and tired of this divide.We are all human beings and if you believe in God we are all his children.Through out human history we have always moved to parts of the world to provide for our families.There are no illegals.This Planet belongs to all of us and its about time we recognized it.

SAY IT AGAIN!

What is saying? "Can't disassemble the master's house with the master's tools?"

McCain's Camp continues to demonstrate that they are THE GANG WHO COULDN'T SHOOT STRAIGHT.

Mornin', all.

I'm a StumbleUpon 'stumbler', and early this morning I fell onto this page:

http://dalesdesigns.net/daisy.htm

Cute, clever, or does it sort of tap dance on a line?

Nate: Morning to ya 2: :>)

I think that it's cute! :>) Just wish the dog was a different color! :>)

I don't like it. It rubs me the wrong way.

Hey, y'all....my kid passed his double ear infections and the flu on to me. Watch these damn weather changes.

D,

I feel for you.

Kids are germ factories.

Reminds me of that Simpsons episode, when the childless people of the town wanted to pass something, and it seemed momentum was on their side, but in the end, the kids did them in with hugs covered in their germs.

D: Sorry to hear! Praying for your family. Please be VERY PROTECTIVE OF the Mrs. - since she is in a "FAMILY WAY!" :>)

Hope you had a Blessed Nov. 11. :>)

More like a completely ruined one. Was gonna take the kid to a parade; thought the better of it.

At least she's "just" pregnant...but being around a whining baby and my miserable self probably isn't helpful.

D: Sorry. :>(

"just pregnant" D: GET A GRIP!!

HELP THE MRS. - NO MATTER WHAT U FEEL LIKE!! Again, I'm hearing 2 much of U!!

Whew! Deep Breaths! [Plain ones, since U're under the weather. :>)]

President-Elect Obama!! First Lady Michelle :>)

D.,

If you're so inclined, drink a cup of tea with a shot of bourbon twice a day. The alcohol helps you sweat out the fever, and of course the buzz makes the misery a bit more tolerable. My Gramps swore by this remedy, and it actually works.

Hot totty

Tea, lemon, bourbon and honey.

pretty tasty.

and it works

And what is the ratio of tea to bourbon, please...that makes it effective?

2-3 oz of bourbon in a 12 oz mug usually does the trick for me. Anything more than that will probably render you incoherent.

Hope you feel better, D!

Wow dude,

Hope you feel better soon.

Stock up on the antibiotics and chicken soup, D.

I fought off the sinus infection from HELL for the last two weeks.

I can't stand chicken noodle soup. However, it's all the mrs can eat at
present, so we've got a bunch.

BTW, you can continue your love-in with Bobby Scott; setting my sights
lower. :)

Don't hate the player - HATE THE GAME. LOL

Here's a post I think you'll like: A black man just made me cry.

This character I used to perform, Dessa Rose Flowers, has a story to tell about love and homophobia and the Black Church and HIV and family. It's an old story, but it feels mighty timely to me in the aftermath of November 4 in California and some of our discussions here.

Guess Who Came To Dinner?

Wow, Craig, I just read your Dessa Rose character, and I know, as a Christian, I struggle the same way, but my heart aches if I say or do anything I know is going to cause another human being pain.

When being "right" means causing someone emotional pain, I'd rather be comforting than being "right". Thank you so much for sharing this because I'm comforted in knowing that I'd rather treat everyone I meet with acceptance rather than judgement.

You're welcome.

She started screaming at me a few nights ago, so I dug her out and let her rip.

Linda Tripp said this:

“I AM so very proud that as a nation we might finally be getting it right. I believe Sen. McCain is an American hero and a deeply honorable public servant, something one seldom sees in Washington. I also believe he could have been a strong president. That said, I believe President-elect Obama possesses an instantly recognizable purity of soul that, coupled with his brilliance, and, of course, his eloquence, brought quite unimaginable and long-awaited magic to the country, transforming red and blue states, quite literally, into ‘The Color Purple.’ I believe the entire country will stand behind him.”

Color me shocked.

HUH?

Except for the excuses she makes for McCain it was a nice sentiment, but a sentiment all the same. Just because good and evil recognize each other doesn't make it a cause for celebration.

That's the thing. The slightest hint of sunlight, anywhere, makes me want to celebrate these days.

Why is she even commenting?

Freedom of expression?

Look at what she saw in Barack: purity of soul.

That someone like her could see that in him is redemptive.

That's what all the babies and the children see.

Purity of soul is powerful.

To say the least.

Who is that really and what did she do to Linda Tripp?

Color Me Outraged.

Her snitching for no reason other than to get Clinton kicked out of office, still has the power to frost my cookies, cause she didn't do any jail time.

And no amount of plastic surgery could erase inner UGLINESS.

NOW, she wants to get on the Obama Bandwagon. <<<eye roll>>>

I believe in forgiveness.

Yes, most Christians do.

from the original hater? wow.

Garrison Keillor wrote Monday:

We threw the dice and we won the jackpot and elected a black guy with a Harvard degree, the middle name Hussein and a sense of humor -- he said, "I’ve got relatives who look like Bernie Mac, and I’ve got relatives who look like Margaret Thatcher." The French junior minister for human rights said, "On this morning, we all want to be American so we can take a bite of this dream unfolding before our eyes." When was the last time you heard someone from France say they wanted to be American and take a bite of something of ours? Ponder that for a moment.

The world expects us to elect pompous yahoos and instead we have us a 47-year-old prince from the prairie who cheerfully ran the race, and when his opponents threw sand at him, he just smiled back. He’ll be the first president in history to look really good making a jump shot. He loves his classy wife and his sweet little daughters. He looks good in the kitchen. He can cook Indian or Chinese but for his girls he will do mac and cheese. At the same time, he knows pop music, American lit and constitutional law. I just can’t imagine anybody cooler.

Look at a photo of the latest pooh-bah conference -- the hausfrau Merkel, the big glum Scotsman, that goofball Berlusconi, Putin with his B-movie bad-boy scowl, and Sarkozy, who looks like a district manager for Avis -- you put Barack in that bunch and he will shine.

rikyrah, if you ever come to Minnesota, let me know, and we'll go see Garrison at the Fitzgerald Theatre. A Prairie Home Companion is riotous entertainment!

I love this statement from the article:
My opinion Garrison Keillor : Wow! Obama brings coolness to Chicago, boosts image of US
My opinion Garrison Keillor
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 11.12.2008

"It feels good to be cool and all of us can share in that, even sour old right-wingers. Next time you fly to Heathrow and hand your passport to the man with the badge, he's going to see "United States of America" and look up and grin. Even if you worship in the church of Fox News, everyone you meet overseas is going to ask you about Obama and you may as well say you voted for him because, my friends, he is your line of credit over there. No need anymore to try to look Canadian.

http://www.azstarnet.com/opinion/266745

It's going to be great to travel abroad again and not have people look at me sideways when they hear my American accent. I arrived in Paris the day after the 2004 election, and if I had a dollar for every time one of the locals asked incredulously "How could you re-elect Bush?" It cast a pall on an otherwise awesome trip and in my travels since then the initial hostility has eased, but folks would still keep me at arms length until I mentioned that I couldn't stand Bush either. I can hold my head up high again, yay.

I lived in the UK in 2003 and had to tell people I was Canadian! I put Maple Leaf insignias on all my bags. It was crazy! Too many angry people jumping in my face. I got no sympathy for being Black either. It just goes to show we are responsible for what our gov't does. And I never voted for Bush.

HeartsAnd Flowers, you know I told you I spent my time at Oxford apologizing for ugly Americans showing their asses over there; the cool thing is that the Brits took one look at me and knew I didn't vote for Bush. LOL

I'm going back for vacation next summer...any takers?

I love the visuals of Garrison's story. This is a real moment not only of history in the making but of the gale of fresh air that is so very badly needed.

Folks need to catch the C-Span interview w/ Condi Rice. It is absolutely stunning. I sat there with my mouth WIDE open.

She is beaming about Barack's victory and she is quite candid about what needs to be done in the context of the founding principles! I was actually shocked, shocked, shocked that she would be so open about the necessity of operating in a global world. Where the hay has she been for the past 8 years?

I met Condi Rice in 2005 while a sophmore in college. She was suprisingly candid. She is not in the dark when it comes to race or race relations....she gets it like we do. I only disagree with her politics. However I would like to hear what she has to say about domestic issues.

I saw her on C-span ...just beaming and smiling and charm oooozing

Condi..is glowing from the inside out...she has a MAN...fo sho...don't hurt that the brother has an NFL body either.

C-Span Interview with Condi Rice

http://www.c-span.org/Politics/

Underneath her "husband", goldenstar?

That's awesome.

".....Sarkozy, who looks like a district manager for Avis ...."

Burrrrn LOL!!

Wait a minute...this story reveals Obama and Sarkozy may be the same person!

If anyone thinks that our national dialogue around immigration has no effect, please see this video.

Latino man killed just because he was Latino. Please note he was not here illegally, and immigrant does not equal criminal. This is pure xenophobia.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/11/12/...

Also, I believe that Bill O'Racist and Sean Klannity are both from Long Island or at least currently reside there.

I guess that they are representative of the types of people who reside there.

Bill O'Reilly spoke about it and pretty much refused to take any blame for his contribution.

Evita, I would say that the lack of a national dialogue on immigration is having the effect, because it allows blowhards like Sean Klannity and Lou Dobbs to sling their spiel, based on their own bigotry, and not be challenged by intelligent minds who know better, but would rather use immigration as another wedge issue because to go after other races simply because of race, "shows their whiteness", and they can't have that.

Co-signing CPL. There isn't one night that goes by on Lou Dobb's show where he's not ranting about "Illegal Immigrants." CNN needs to be called on the carpet and get bitch slapped royally for their piss poor media coverage.

Can you say FAIRNESS DOCTRINE?!!!!!

Not only can I say "Fairness Doctrine", I'll also say that restoration of it is what has those SOBs running scared.

You got it!

Illegal immigration is the reason blacks ascent in society was far slower subsequent the signing of the Civil Rights Act in 1964.

Most black folks do not know the history of immigration nor how it impacted blacks, following the tumultous 60s.

It is no coincidence that blacks went from being the faces in hotels/restaurants as waiters and from nannies and maids ...all those service jobs now have hispanic faces.

Yet, for over 100 years that was not true. Do you honestly think that is a coincidence. Generations of blacks dominated the service industry in America...now we don't. Folks need to stop and think.

It doesn't mean we have to oppose immigration but it does mean that the term illegal immigration is true and there is a reason there was a tremendous influx.

We undermine our own progress in part by scapegoating groups that are powerless. Hispanics are not forming alliances? We are SHUT OUT of the discussion concerning race by people who only wish to speak in dichotomies. Remember Hispanics only became Hispanic when they got to the US. And we do not have the economic foundation that many of historically Black organizations and Black people have. There is no such category "hispanic" anywhere else in the world, so this notion of solidarity within the group is already a tough sell to new immigrants- documented or undocumented.

Calling people "illegals" or "aliens" is a form of dehumanization. Locking people up in vans until you can fill an entire van for deportation is a regular practice. Police can do that because if you are not a citizen in the US you are inhuman.

Service jobs were not taken by undocumented people. They were GIVEN TO people willing to be paid ANY wage and under ANY working condition in order to feed their staving families. Why not blame the greed of the people who hire them? Like many Americans you are misdirecting the blame and delay thoughtful solutions.

These are our NEW American values. Say the United States is a place of opportunity then shut out the brown people interested in pursing it. Anyone talking about illegal Canadians? Nope. They exist.
People of Eastern European descent is second largest group of undocumented immigration. Do we talk about that? Nope.

Direct the consequence of what happens when individuals pursue the American Dream to the government. Undocumented immigrants are a really easy target. As African Americans began to enjoy a bigger piece of the American pie and enjoy the rights of FULL CITIZENSHIP, then they were willing to accept less and less of the work that undocumented people do. I'm not saying there aren't Black people willing to accept any job. But as citizens, they have to be paid minimum wage. Know anyone willing to be paid $3/ hour with no time off, insurance, or legal recourse if your employer doesn't want to pay you? Blame the AMERICAN DREAM. Blame industry. Blame the American people for not being willing to pay $8 for head of lettuce so that farmers can pay their farm hands minimum wage and give them health insurance.

Lots of people benefit from the subjugation of undocumented immigrants. Americans. Industry. Even government. People who are feeding their families off of American greed are getting the least of it.

Cosign. Preach, evita.

You just go on ahead and preach it, evita! And that is what the MSM and Louie the lier Dobbs are not reporting!

Evita,
I do not have a problem with precise language. There is immigration to this country which is illegal...and then there is illegal immigration. Nothing about those terms are dehumanizing. Nada. What we have here is a need by some to control the language to fit there means. Now, if people could not illegally immigrate to this country, we might could find commong ground on that. As it is, you are either a US citizen, here legally or you are in this country illegally and violating the immigration laws. The police in the US uphold the law. They are charged to do so and I am find with that as long as they do so within the bounds of the law. Yes, I know they can abuse that authority. So, please do not think otherwise.

Service jobs were filled by immigrants who flooded the country due to the 1965 Immigration Reform Act. Employers were glad to hire anyone OTHER than blacks following all the tumultous riots!!

Now, where did you get this term "undocumented people"? Why is that anymore acceptable to you than illegal immigration? What's less dehumanizing about telling someone that they are not a person unless they are documented? To me that is far worse then saying they have violated the law. Your term basically suggest they do not exist !! So it seems like to me you pick and choose while seeking to chastise others to suit your emotional agenda.

This is a tool folks use in an attempt to control the discussion around emotions vs. substance and facts. I refuse to play it. If you would like to hold a rational discussion great, but I am not going to engage this grade school...'you can't say that, it hurts crap'. Talk facts, dispute, rebut or discredit them if you can but none of this emotional subterfuge is effective or helpful in addressing the core issues and reasoning out solutions.

I was not seeking to blame anyone other than the American government which reformed the Immigration Act as a direct counter to the advancing of the Negro in American society. It was a deliberate deterrent to our economic and social progress.

Yes, there are other immigrant groups from Europe and Canada...however, they do not dominate the service industry. So they were not the labor pool that drove up the permanently unemployment of poor blacks. The European immigrants competed at the middle class and upper middle class rungs in science and math to impede the progress of college educated blacks as they came out of universities in the 70s/80s following the Pell Grant .

"Full citizenship" is not and never has been the reason that blacks were no longer dominating in the service industry rather it was racism and stereotypes of blacks being lazy and untrustworthy that forced blacks into unemployed. Black folks have never turned down a friggin job. You must be listening to too much Limbaugh/Hannity to write such crazy bigotted mess.

The minimum wage does need to be raised in this country but that nor the American dream is the reason blacks were pushed out of the service industry. You have that twisted.

Haven' t you seen the research that shows a black man with a degree is less likely to be hired than a white boy with a criminal record? We are NOT turning down jobs!! Black folks are STILL the last hired and first fired!!! RACISM has not gone anywhere but undercover.

While there may be lots of folks benefiting from illegal immigrants being employed....black folks are not one of them.

I understand what you are saying. My use of the term undocumented people had to do with with people who are can be at various stages of their documentation status and experience (for example having the appropriate documentation then having it expire and continuing to work for the same employer, but now off the books and so they didn't sneak into the country in the middle of the night!) You can have family members who were born in the US and some who are documented and some who are not. With this mix of statuses, it is likely the labor they do is off the books- or on one SSN. It takes generations before documented immigrants are empowered to assert human rights. I used the term "undocumented people" as a shorthand in this conversation. It wasn't a ploy but I understand your complaint.

My original issue was around the dehumanization has to to with language (calling them aliens/ illegals etc) and it has much to do with this notion of talking about emotions over stats and facts. The fact is they are people. They have families. They are employed by people who take advantage of them. You say it is distracting the discussion of the issue by using "emotion." All I got to say is you got dehumanizing down pat if you can feel no emotion over this issue.

Undocumented people are not working in McDonald's- in integrated areas it is people of color who do the work, not elderly white people. No idea where you are from- but I have lived in a very white rural place and in those areas white people had those jobs and in NYC it is Black and Latino people doing the job. Not the elderly white people.

You are conflating the issue of competition with dehumanization. Recall it was you changed the subject with the issue to competition.

You said," Black folks have never turned down a friggin job. You must be listening to too much Limbaugh/Hannity to write such crazy bigotted mess." I never said that- looks like your emotions are getting the better of you. So you need to relax with the immature namecalling and condescension. My point is that service jobs are not what people who have access to education and opportunity ASPIRE to. We are not talking about the Black middle class people in this regard, therefore we talking about the working poor.

The competition you are are trying to leverage here is among the working poor and undocumented immigrants. And we have already said that undocumented immigrants don't do this work.

You said "While there may be lots of folks benefiting from illegal immigrants being employed....black folks are not one of them." How much to you pay for lettuce? How about peaches? How about your soy products? If it isn't $8, $10/ lb, or $12/ half gallon, then even Black people are benefiting. Puerto Ricans, too.

I agree with you about the racism but as someone else told you about- you are falling into the trap of scapegoating and distracting from the real evil doers, and it isn't the undocumented worker.

WRB- the term "undocumented" has been in use for quite a while now, especially among people who advocate for the fair and humane treatment of undocumented people. Undocumented means "not having the needed documents to live or work in a given country". That is stating the facts, and there are a whole host of reasons why a person may be undocumented. Calling someone an "alien" or an "illegal" IS dehumanizing. Forgive me if this isn't the most perfect parallel, but I as a Black woman DESPISE being called a "minority". Unless you are talking to me about Federal AA/EEO stats, I don't want to hear the word minority. I am Black. I am a person of color.

Emphasizing the person and not "othering" him/her is the key. Language does matter.

Bittersweet,

I am familiar with the term undocumented worker and undocumented immigrant....NOT undocumented people ...which is what Evita
used.

I can appreciate your choice not to be called a minority...but then you clearly accept it as it was intended in my post...in reference to employment, admission and stats.

I agree language matter which is why I will not only control of a topic if it is used to obfuscate or inflame emotions. You know how they call it voter fraud when it is really voter suppresion...same thing. Or they called it reverse discrimination when it was to a tool to policy centuries of discrimination?

I refuse to engage that type of one-sided selective use, as Evita did in her post. Jumping on illegal immigrant as dehumanizing, (which I disagree with) and then turning around and calling folks undocumented people.

"People of Eastern European descent is second largest group of undocumented immigration. Do we talk about that? Nope."

Yea. I have been wondering about that for a while. It just shows this counties racism.

I also agree with you when it comes to scapegoating, this country has done a great job at that in order to distract from institutionalized problems that are controlled and fostered by the dominant community or "ruling class".

Evita, you nailed it. And people got pissed because Vicente Fox essentially, spoke the truth when he said that Mexicans were immigrating into the United States to take the jobs African-Americans didn't want.

I disagreed only with the part "jobs African-Americans didn't want", because the history is to low-ball on wages on those jobs. However, you are correct in saying that those jobs are being GIVEN to Latino immigrants because those who hire them count on their fear and ignorance of the Federal minimum wage laws; and their immigrant status makes them fearful of demanding more in pay because to do so results in loss of employment and possible reporting to the INS for deportation.

The part you disagreed with was the ENTIRE point!!

Vicente was totally wrong!

There are no jobs that AfricanAmericans do not want.

You are drinking the kool-aid being used to keep blacks unemployed by spreading the racist myth that blacks are shiftless and lazy and don't WANNA work!

Black folks need to wake up. Our existence in this country provides a huge unemployed labor pool that employers were being forced to use with the Civil Rights ACT.

Only folks who do not know there own history repeat such outrageous bigottry that jobs are being GIVEN to immigrants cause blacks won't do them.

They are a pool of labor being use to displace and keep blacks unemployed, Resulting in huge incarceration of blacks or there going into the military.

The fewer jobs there are the bigger the prison population and the more blacks that sign up for the military.

This is no coincidence.

They will lock us up or send us to die!!

And stuff like this puts Black People on an even slippier slope than the actual return of Jim Crow.

First they pit ethnicities against other ethnicities - divide, conquer and take everyone's shyt.

Next, if they succeed in legally implementing discrimination in immigration and using immigration laws to accomplish their goals, what is there to stop them at attempts to rescind all other laws accomplished by the Civil Rights Act?

Segregation of ourselves as Black People still gets us NOWHERE. Same thing for other races, too - UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL.

They already lock us up AND send us to die when we can't compete on level playing fields because of ethnicity.

Who's willing to go out in the elements and pick produce for pennies on the bushel, when the Federal minimum wage demands a person be paid at least $7.50 an hour? Blacks know the laws - most immigrants do not and those who own farms and agricultural operations know this, and offer to pay under the table as opposed to paying minimum or prevailing wages.

If what you say is correct, then why are Brothas who are trained and qualified carpenters, stone and cement masons, crane operators - qualified to work any and everywhere in the construction industry are being shut out by labor forces that be?

Because the owners and CEOs are trying to make money. They know that the Brotha is probably a union member and will demand he be paid prevailing wage. An immigrant may be willing to take under the table wages to do the same work, therefore undermining brothas and U. S. born Latino brothas as well.

It is one thing to point out the symptom; it is another to identify the ROOT CAUSE. Blaming immigration does not address the ROOT CAUSE, and that is the Man's willingness to make sure we're all too busy engaging in the "Willie Lynch" syndrome and clawing at one another to unite and educate the immigrants as well about the laws in this country and ensure they know what to do when they're being compromised, just as we are.

My only point with that is that after you pursue this notion of the American Dream- receive your high school education the next step is go to college. Service jobs are not desirable work. In certain small towns with no other better paying options, then service jobs are indeed desirebale.

In poor white town, McDonald's are staffed with white people. In integrated cities, who staffs McDonald's? Not white people.

They are staffed by senior citizens and many of them are white.

Yes and many African immigrants are victims of this sort of exploitation.

Keep the poor targeting each other as the rich laugh their way to their bail out money.

This is typical divide and conquer maneuvers. How can we live by "when one people are not free, no one is free" and then turn around and believe this?

Don't fall for it.

Lilytiger,
That sounds good but do the reality check. Black leaders felt they were not going to divide and conquer they embraced the brown divide.

Who is still on the outside?

You do not have to fall for what is blatantly true. The war on drugs locked up our communities. Reverse discrimination made it possible for every minority except blacks to be included in affirmative action...and for the biggest 'minority' group in America to be the white female.

So, you do not have to fall for anything to know there are far more Latinos in positions of power than blacks in corporate America as well as there are far more white females who have benefitted from affirmative action and her executives, while our folks can't even find employment on the bottom of the rung cause all the waiters maids and waitresses are now hispanic.

You right we don't have to fall for it.

We are already the fall guy...while everyong else reaps the benefits of our struggle and climbs the rungs of success in America.

puhleeze

You are so right, Lilytiger. We're so busy fighting one another, that when the dust clears, both groups are at the bottom of the food chain, and wondering what the hell happened.

I'm not falling for it; I never have and I never WILL.

I take the MLK approach: "Injustice ANYWHERE, is injustice EVERYWHERE."

I'm one of those people who doesn't know much about it, but the timing makes sense. Give us rights then undermine us economically.

Black folks are the most manipulated and exploited group in American because we have such a minority mindset...which compells us to be inclusive when it is detrimental to our own survival. But our minds and brains are deeply scarred we do not think self-preservation first we think 'I can not discriminate against others because I know how bad that is'

As a result we undermine our own progress.

I'm not sure its really progress to discriminate in the name of self-preservation.

You don't have to be sure. All you have to do is look around and see who the successful groups are in America.

You are the one discriminated against and you are the one with the least success. Even though our people fought and died for the rights of everyone to have progress...we still the ones without it,.

All the other groups have reaped far more.

So, yes it is self-preservation to be DISCRIMINATING and DISCERNING so you know when you do not have food to share because you are starving.

Rather, than starve yourself to death believing that feeding others was more worthy.

You are right. The idea that those high school age young men went looking for "foreigners" to attack makes my skin crawl. This crap is out of control. This is not the South that gets the bad reputation of having racist people in it. It was New York- the North. Those white kids did it because they believed they can attack this people and get away with it.

At the heart of this MONOLOGUE on immigration in the United States is the systematic dehumanization of people who are foreign born. They are not thought of as human beings that work, have families, have dreams, values, and are worthy of the space they occupy- wherever it may be.

It's more than whiteness, CPL. It's a national identity that seeps into others. One of the hate mongering youth is said to be part Latino- I will bet money that THAT kid is Puerto Rican. Hyper nationalism is also at fault. Red meat Americanism.

New York has long been extremely racist especially Long Island. Do not be suprised if those guys are name Vinny Carfora or Tony Rocanelli (if you know what I mean).

When my mother moved to this country, the Bronx was worse than any part of Alabama.

They beat my uncle to near death out in Throgs Neck back in 1984.

I guess things have not changed.

For real. And I always wince when I hear about that brotha in Arizona who joined a contingent of the "Minutemen" to be on patrol to send Mexican immigrants packing back across the border with his guns.

http://www.brownpride.us/forum/black-racist-gro...

All I could think was: "You dumb ass; don't you know that if the government succeeds in doing this shyt, they will look for another group to discriminate against; that WE won't be too far behind the Latinos?"

That is my greatest fear, because, as Fannie Lou Hamer said, when the white man "gives" us anything (rights), one day, he will decide he wants those "rights" he gave us back. And we're already seeing this, even though 52% of this country elected an African-American as POTUS. There's still 48% who would love to send this country back to Jim Crow days.