Jack & Jill Politics

I know everybody is unimpressed w/ big capitalism. Here is one more reason to be upset: http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2008/09/...
This is regulatory exemption for 5 firms you know three do not exist anymore.

They are really trying to scare The Jews with regards to Obama.

I guess putting someone on the GOP ticket whose church invites actual anti-Semites, and whose pastor has routinely said anti-Semitic things, they must smear Obama anyway they can, since they've run out of the ' Obama is a Muslim' emails.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/18/154949/...

FiveThirtyEight.com has Obama back in the lead in the EC

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/09/obama-pu...

the siren cracks me up

rikyrah: I am so much appreciating the DATA/STATISTICS on that site! Whew!!:>)

How AIG got into so much trouble
http://www.portfolio.com/news-markets/top-5/200...

You are currently hearing about action to calm the credit and financial markets. The simplest explanation is that all financial institutions holding mortgage bonds of all types would sell their bonds to a government agency at a loss-it is not 100% but should be at most 50%. What this will do is reliquify the credit markets. This will allow these financial agencies that sell to resume more normal business operations.

Normal business operations means making loans/extending credit of all sorts to customers. These customers will pay higher interest rates reflecting a higher risk premium regardless of their credit quality/score. The rates also reflect the fact the insititutions have to make money for their shareholders. The stock market will stabilize
but a rebound of prices will be slow on the whole as profits will no longer be the same in financial stocks because they can't do business as they have in the past. All other types of stock will be effected by the fall out from the loss of credit in the larger economy. his loss of credit will slow down everything in the larger economy. Jobs will not expand as quickly because there will not be the same rates of return from hiring someone. Nor will the consumer be as willing to spend.

The government organization that now holds these bonds will collect the payments and pay out on the bonds. As things stabilize across the board these bonds will go up in value as mortgage payments are made. At some point this organiziation will sell these bonds back to someone whom will pay more than they were bought for.

As to the consumers how will this help them. I suspect that the politics of this will mean that there will be recognization of the fact that many of the mortgages in these bonds have underlying assets(the homes) that are not equal to the value of mortgages. to rectify this, as terms of buying the bonds, there will be a move to reset the mortgages to recognize the current value of the house. People whom hold exotic mortgages will be forced(?) to move into standard 30yr mortgages at lower rates than they are currently paying. All of this is to stablize the value of the homes and the mortgages and bonds that underlie them. Please keep in mind as the value of your homes go down the taxes raised for school districts, local and state governement go down.

Do not be fooled. The conflict between the bondholders and the mortgage owners that underlie them will be bitter and ugly. There are people whom scammed the system(had good credit bought as many homes as possible because for a while they could flip them for a profit) and people whom were scammed by the system(had good credit but given alt-a mortgages, PO,IO or other types of exotic types). No one is going to want to be seen as bailing out "bad" guys. But as I pointed out state and local governments can't operate without a tax base and no one wants the economy to spiral out of control into a DEPRESSION so a deal has a very high probality of being done

Rob M: Adding 1 point and appreciating this information!! Thank you! :>)

WaPo: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008...

McCain was almost upstaged at the rally here by Palin, who drew rapturous applause from the crowd with her bubbly declaration -- twice -- that she and McCain were "going to Washington, D.C., to shake things up!''

McCain recited a speech he had given earlier in the day about the need to reform Wall Street. A slow but steady trickle of supporters began to file out after Palin's speech introducing McCain.

Radio Iowa blog:http://learfield.typepad.com/radioiowa/2008/09/mccainpalin-ral.html

The Top Gun soundtrack began playing just about the time McCain's plane arrived. Shortly after 11 o'clock (an hur late), McCain and Palin took the stage as the Garth Brooks song "Standing Outside the Fire" played and the crowd cheered.

"We want Sarah," the crowd began chanting as Palin said, "Thank you," to begin the rally.

"Thank you so much Iowa, it is so good to be in Grand Rapids," Palin said. OOOPS. She's in Cedar Rapids.

I look up, about five minutes into McCain's address and see a steady stream of people walking out of the rally. They just came to see Palin apparently.

NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/19/us/politics/1...

After Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, his running-mate, riveted the overflow crowd at an airplane hanger here for 16 minutes, it was McCain's turn, and people in his audience began murmuring and drifting away midway through a 14-minute speech that was flat and cheerless. When McCain made his first appearance without Palin, on Monday morning in Jacksonville, he faced an arena that was one-quarter full.

Detroit Free Press:http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080918/NEWS15/809180389/1008/news06

Many came to see Palin.

"Here's to Sarah Palin and the old guy," said Gerald Hunsburger of Holland, who decided to forgo his usual sunny day hobby of boating on Lake Michigan. "She's energizing."

"Thank you so much Iowa, it is so good to be in Grand Rapids," Palin said. OOOPS. She's in Cedar Rapids.

It's like a gaffe-o-matic.

Uh Oh! John McCain better watch out.

That's what we are gonna do in a PALIN and McCain administration. LOL hysterical.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dysEy5O1dn4

Article on Salon.com:


Obama and the rules for Angry Black Men

Why does Barack Obama have to be Virgil Tibbs? Or Denzel Washington in "Crimson Tide"? Or any other angry black archetype?

By James Hannaham

Sen. Barack Obama listens to a question during a news conference in Watertown, S.D., May 16, 2008.

Sept. 18, 2008 | By using the phrase "the angry left" in his speech to the Republican National Convention, George W. Bush pulled a classic bully move: provoke your opponent and then mock his rage. For if the left was merely irritated at the start of the last eight years, only W's puppet master, Vice President Dick Cheney, has done more to incite that anger -- or rather, to grind it, hone it, to plunge it headlong into a blazing kiln, to blast it through a Large Hadron Collider and create world-imploding black holes of fury. Republican presidential candidate John McCain has sucked up to the established kleptocracy, waging a Karl Rove-ish smear campaign, and cynically hired an ingénue, Sarah Palin, as a running mate not only because she has a vagina but because she believes it should be strictly policed. The "angry left" has an OED-size book of good reasons to be wrathful where it concerns the Republican Party. So why won't Barack Obama channel the outrage surging through his constituency and explode in fire-and-brimstone oratory?

The conventional wisdom is that Obama isn't angry enough. After his speech at the Democratic convention, MSNBC's Keith Olbermann asks Obama, perhaps hopefully, "Have you thought about getting angrier?" Thomas L. Friedman, writing in the New York Times, implies that he wants to see more theater in Obama's oratory: "I thought his convention speech contained no memorable lines or uplifting visions. It never got me out of my seat." This sounds like someone complaining about the acting in a Wesley Snipes action film, not about the rhetoric of a presidential candidate. Friedman then implies that Americans respond best to the melodramatic package in which political ideas are sold, not the ideas themselves, and quotes Neil Oxman of political P.R. firm the Campaign Group, who conflates Sarah Palin's popularity with Roseanne Barr's. Will this campaign really come down to something as asinine as theatrics? In a close race, the answer can often be yes. There was something chilling in Walter Mondale's sadly resolute quip after losing the 1984 presidential election: "Modern politics today requires a mastery of television," he said. "I have never really warmed up to television and television has never warmed up to me."
Quantcast

Even Arianna Huffington, who 10 years ago considered herself a conservative, has found herself frustrated with Obama's unflappable demeanor. He has remained calm and collected, "professional" you might say, even when McCain accused him of promoting sex ed for kindergartners -- which is not that upsetting as a concept when you think about it; kids all want to know where babies come from. What's infuriating is that the ad represents the Republicans' roundabout way of implying that a vote for Obama might enable child molesters or cross some other undefined erotic line. "Now, as the crises facing our country intensify," Huffington writes, "and the campaign McCain is running becomes sleazier and more trivial, it's time for Obama to unleash his inner Atticus -- or at least the key element of Finch that Obama seems reluctant to embrace: righteous rage." By Atticus, Huffington means Atticus Finch, the determined lawyer from Harper Lee's novel "To Kill a Mockingbird" who risks his status and possibly his life to defend a black man accused of raping a white woman in mid-20th-century Alabama. Huffington's analogy begins with the obliquely racialized "Mockingbird" -- Gregory Peck plays Finch in the film version -- then goes overboard when she includes a cinematic montage of articulate black rage to illustrate the sort of indignation she demands of Obama: Denzel Washington vs. Gene Hackman in "Crimson Tide," Morgan Freeman in "Lean on Me," Don Cheadle in "Hotel Rwanda," and last but not least, "In the Heat of the Night's" Sidney Poitier defiantly asserting the respect he gets at home: "They call me Mr. Tibbs!"

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Where to begin? There's something off-putting about choosing to demonstrate this point with exclusively black heroes -- and fictional ones, at that. No Thurgood Marshall? No MLK? Huh? Furthermore, rage has no color, especially not in an election like this, and after the hell Obama caught for refusing to renounce the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, why would he then do an impersonation of the guy? While different from the "angry black man," the "righteous black hero" is just as much a stereotype, a flat character created to promote the fantasy that oppression naturally generates moral fiber -- that is, the diamond formed by pressure, the rose that grows up through concrete. Morgan Freeman owes his fortune to playing roles that "reverse" our expectations about the status of black men in America -- God in "Bruce Almighty," and tellingly, in 1998's "Deep Impact," President Tom Beck. Like the words "articulate" and "clean" in the mouth of Joe Biden so many forgivenesses ago, or the big dick thing, it's a positive archetype, and therefore less likely to start fights. But it nevertheless diminishes a group of complicated people to a single mode of expression.

The media's in danger of falling into what I can only describe as a "take me, Mandingo!" mentality where it concerns Obama's anger. When you are a black man, many people (even other black men, and especially strangers) tend to react to your physical presence as if you are "a black man," whatever that happens to mean to them at the time. Sometimes these people indulge their obtuse assumptions in the face of hard evidence: No, I don't play basketball. The facts ought to be enough to limit these people's attempts to make themselves more comfortable by presuming that you conform to their expectations. But some bias seems hard-wired; it persists beyond logic. Old ladies may clutch their handbags, cross the street when walking in front of you, policemen may search your trunk on a routine stop, etc. It doesn't matter if you're Biggie Smalls or Urkel.

To say the least, suggestions like Huffington's and Friedman's promote a Hollywood notion of how black men should react to injustice. We think that it's fine to wonder why Obama refuses to conform to some cinematic dream of noble negritude. The eye-opener is that these kinds of expectations aren't even evidence of racism as much as generic prejudice -- women, white men, Asians, everybody has to face similar assumptions. The implications can be particularly dire for women and people of color, though, because the prejudicial beliefs tend toward viciousness: she's a whore, he's going to carjack me. So Obama is damned if he performs his black anger too fiercely -- that would give biased people the impression that he's an "angry black man" or worse, an extremist, and therefore unelectable. But now he has to face criticism from the left because he's not performing his anger -- a specifically black, unreal variety of anger, remember -- in the correct measure.

Like a lot of people, I too would like to see Obama draw more definite lines in the sand, or to see someone take the Republicans to task for their misdeeds without backing down or qualifying their statements with one of those they-must-love-their-children-too type concessions. But I have no desire to see Obama's revenge take the form of a snitty Mr. Tibbs or a Morgan Freeman hero. Obama clearly has his own style; we ought to see his intelligent use of understatement as a strength. Isn't his call for "enough" enough?


Obama/Biden 08

the small voices on O's shoulder trying to tempt him into the documented death-trap of Angry Black Man.

What a wonderful world...

A Big Week For Flawed Voter Matching Experiments
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/the-brennan-cente...

Explosive GQ Piece: McCain Tried To Upend al-Maliki Government
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/17/explos...

A Press Conference on Obama's Support for Women:

Was held yesterday.

Includes Donna Edwards, Nancy Pelosi and other women in Congress. Pretty good.

20min long, but worth it.

Posted this comment in the Voter Suppression Wiki also:

Voter Suppression Attempt for the entire state of Texas:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/...

Libertarian Bob Barr files suit to keep both Barack Obama and John McCain off the ballot in November...

McCain's SEC Slam Becomes Latest Gaffe: The President Can't Fire The SEC Chair
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09...

um, shouldn't he have known this?

Tsk Tsk .......you're so technical TS.........The McCain campaign called protests that the president cannot literally "fire" an SEC commissioner "a foolish distinction." (Tucker Bounds)

LOL - these jokes just write themselves!

I know...I feel so naive.

Forget firing the SEC Chair; Barack has some advice for America!

John McCain can’t decide whether he’s Barry Goldwater or Dennis Kucinich. He is not clear about what he thinks or what he believes," he said.

He also responded to McCain's proposal to fire the head of the SEC:

[McCain] said that he is calling for the firing of the Security and Exchange Commissioner. Well I think that is all fine and good, but here is what I say: In 47 days, you can fire the whole Trickle-Down, On-Your-Own, Look-the-Other-Way crowd in Washington who has led us down this disastrous path. Don’t just get rid of one guy, get rid of this administration, get rid of this philosophy, get rid of the do-nothing approach to problems and put someone in there who is going to fight for you.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/

LOL.

They just aired that clip on CNN. He's getting really feisty, isn't he? Good for him.

the commenters on Ben Smith's blog were so excited! Got to head over to CNN to hear how he delivered the lines.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/17/politic...

Update: Palin Spokesperson Tracey Schmitt offered the following experiences that Palin would bring to the table on foreign policy:

"As the Governor of one of our largest energy producing states, Governor Sarah Palin is uniquely qualified to speak to one of the most pressing foreign policy issues of our time; achieving independence from foreign oil.

She is Governor of the only state with two international borders – a land border with Canada and a maritime border with Russia.

She has executive experience, has promoted trade of Alaskan products to over 100 foreign destinations and met with dozens of international trade delegations.

Last year she traveled to the Middle East to visit members of the deployed Alaska National Guard troops and she has also visited wounded US troops in Germany."

So, if there's no land mass between Canada and London; therefore, we share a maritime border.

I know bullshit when I see it. This is bullshit.

Don't be so harsh. They really were talking about "Fern Policy" ...beautiful in Alaska.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3035/2608448967_...

You know, if you read the whole link....that is actually hilarious. Its scary, yes...but funny as all get out. I mean, they are straight up giving POW answers. They saying the same things over and over with a straight face. It doesn't matter what the question is, you will get the same answer....and now we've added being able to play basketball in high school as experience....then my reign as Senior Class President should make me fit to be Grand Redeemer of the High Priestess Queen of Earth - all hail me.

Town and I had a discussion on the overall fucked-upedness of this yesterday. Maybe (s)he'll go and provide laughs for the rest of us.

rikyrah: I just noticed an "ear piece" of some type in "The Gov.'s" LEFT ear. I hadn't noticed it B4.

Did anyone else see it?? If, so - have you seen it B4? Hmmmm?


Obama-Biden '08!!

Not sure if this was posted but this is great for Barack and for the Fashionistas!

http://store.barackobama.com/Shirts_s/1034.htm

islandgirl550: Hey! :>) Nice selection!! Where's my purse? We're going shopping!! :>)

I want that Diane Von Furstenburg bag.

I have my portfolio as sad and small as it is with Pacific Capital. I just called into the office and the whole company is at a conference and will be out of the office until mid week next week.

Did the canary just die?

Lilytiger: LOL!! :>) :>)

rikyrah: Just received this video from the Obama Campaign:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONM7148cTyc



OBAMA-BIDEN '08!

rikyrah: HEAD BOW: Ike victims/rescuers/families that have welcomed the victims; and to the family of the late alderman.

http://blackpoliticsontheweb.com/2008/09/18/chi...
Chicago's 1st Black Female Alderman Dies

Anna R. Langford, 90, the first black woman to serve on the Chicago City Council, died Wednesday at her home after a brief battle with lung cancer, according to her son, Chicago Fire Department spokesman Larry Langford.

Born in Springfield, Ohio, Anna Langford moved to Chicago after the deaths of her parents. A graduate of the Chicago Public Schools and Roosevelt University, she became a lawyer in 1956 after attending John Marshall Law School.

Before being elected alderman, Langford was a civil rights activist, allowing the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. to use her home to plan for a march on Cicero to promote integration.

It was her mother’s death that propelled her into civil rights activism. Langford’s mother, a white woman, went to an Ohio hospital suffering from appendicitis. But when her biracial children showed up, hospital staff ordered her transferred to a hospital serving blacks. En route, her appendix burst, and she died.

Langford won her first aldermanic election to represent the 16th Ward in 1971.

She lost her 1975 re-election bid, lost again in 1979, then saw victory in two following elections in the 1980s.

Langford was one of several black politicians who urged then U.S. Rep. Harold Washington to run for Chicago mayor. Washington was elected in 1983 and died of a heart attack in 1987, at the beginning of his second term.

Besides her son, Langford’s survivors include three grandchildren and a great-grandchild.

(AP)



Obama-Biden '08!!

I can't see all the news commentaries. If I was everyone here just post McCain' and Palin's comments. It is clear they are destroying themselves. The people whom are going to change their minds about the Republican ticket openly. Just keep letting the ticket destroy itself.

Rikyrah: Dr. Condi Rice is on CNN - discussing her disappointment with Russia.

But, MORE IMPORTANTLY, her hair is HOOKED [finally! :>)]

Guess this is a "gossip post" -huh? :>)

I believe there's hope yet for Dr. Rice. I still believe she'll find her 'Power Couple' mate.

rikyrah: I truly wish her the best!! She has class! :>)

LMAO!! So she finally said forget this, and went to souteast DC and let a sistah put a Mizani on the crown?!!? Well, its about damn time!

ROTFLMAO!!! I missed Dr. Condi, but I'll try to check it on CNN.com. I've got to see her hair!!! :>)!!

freespiritbty: Hey! Just trying ta make a compliment - when necessary!! :>)

I do not know if you are watching. McCain called for the firing of Christopher Cox, the head of the Securities and exchange commission approximately one hour ago. Bush and the White house just came out and backed up Christopher Cox. This is the report on CNBC and here:
http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-a...
The Republicans can not run away from how they are handling this mess.

The following is a distraction:
More confirmation of what everyone knows and many will not admit:
http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-a...

Rob M: to your first point: Do you see a "pile on" by Shrub & Cox? this is going to be interesting! After school, we'd yell - "Fight!" "Fight!" :>)

To your second point: I just love POLITIC-SPEAK! :>) STRETCH

Why couldn't he do "Regular-Speak" and just say Hell-to-the-Naw!! Oh well. :>)

Another excerpt from the McCain/Pailin Town Hall
Apologies if someone else already posted.

McCain seemed happy to have Palin along for their first joint town hall, asking her to jump in on the conversation, notably on energy issues, which McCain's campaign has been promoting as Palin's strong suit.

When asked by one voter how and where oil from off-shore drilling could be secured, Palin cited her experience on energy issues in Alaska, saying she would work to make the resources that "belong to the people" available.

"It's a matter of Congress allowing these lands to be tapped—the offshore drilling—the allowance given there also for safe, reliable and ethical drilling of these resources," Palin said. "Yes, the oil companies have the leases, the right to develop; they also have a duty to develop when it's economic, when people are hurtin', they need to tap those resources and get those sources flowin'. That's part of the reform that we're going to usher into D.C. and we did that up in Alaska."

But when asked how she would help keep any new domestic oil produced in the United States, Palin gave a less-than-well-articulated non-answer.

"Oil and coal? Of course, it's a fungible commodity and they don't flag, you know the molecules, where it's going and where it's not. But in the sense of the Congress today, they know that there are very, very hungry domestic markets that need that oil first," Palin said. "So I believe that what Congress is going to do also is not to allow the export bans to such a degree that it's Americans that get stuck to holding the bag without the energy source that is produced here, pumped here. It's got to flow into our domestic markets first."


http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09...

OMFG, teh Govenor is an idiot, don'tcha know.

I was looking for this Spanish Barack ad....a Repub shill mentioned that it associated McCain with Limbaugh. I found it in a KOS diary. Check out all the ads...especially the later ones you might not have seen yet. I put the transcript/translation below:
----------------------------------------------
Obama Ads Carpet Bomb McSame - "He's Sold You Out"!!!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/18/73346/2...

Transcript

They want us to forget the insults we've put up with.

The intolerance.

"Mexicans are stupid and unqualified," says Rush Limbaugh.

"Shut your mouth or get out," says the mouth of the GOP.

They made us feel marginalized in a country we love so much.

John McCain and his Republican friends have two faces.

One that says lies just to get our vote and another, even worse voice, which continues the failed policies of George Bush, putting their "special interests" ahead of working families.

Don't forget that John McCain abandoned us rather than confront the leaders of the Republican Party.

Many of us were born here, and others came to work and achieve a better life for their families.

Not to commit crimes or drain the system like many of John McCain's friends claim.

Let's not be fooled by political tricks from John McSame and the Republicans.

Vote - so they respect us.

Vote for a change

I must say, I don't like this ad at all. I think it's nasty.

That said, no one can legitimately accuse Barack of being above the fray.

The politics of the ad is brilliant, though. McCain can't respond to it.

And it proves he's playing to win.

The translation did strike me as wonky.....I wondered if it was an official translation or something from Google. Maybe a more elegant translation will be less ...stark.

However, If they're going to associate Obama with Ayers...It's so much more legitimate to associate Limbaugh with McCain. McCain doesn't speak out against Limbaugh. There's nothing in the ad that's untrue.

I don't disagree. And a Hispanic-American on the blog said she thinks the ad is perfect.

I still think its a nasty ad though.

no way you can mention Limbaugh and NASTY not be included. I have no qualms with this. at all. They wanna lie about Barack in 2 languages, then he has the right to use whatever he has to in order to get through to our Latino citizens.

This is truly astonishing. Yet, many Americans are only concerned about owning a pair of Sarah Palin's eyeglasses! Are some really this shallow?

Roschelle: Hey! :>) REALLY! Sad But True!

For indie-ed, nancelyn, and the other cut and paste JJP trolls, here's an article with some historical facts---hopefully you will actually learn somehthing today


Phil Gramm's fingerprints are all over market mess
By FROMA HARROP

Sept. 17, 2008, 11:22PM
''The fundamentals of our economy are strong," John McCain said as Wall Street went into white-knuckle panic over diving investor confidence. Does he believe that? It doesn't really matter, because the Republican has outsourced his economic policy to the ideologues whose opposition to regulations brought the financial markets to their knees.

McCain's former economic adviser is ex-Texas Sen. Phil Gramm. On Dec. 15, 2000, hours before Congress was to leave for Christmas recess, Gramm had a 262-page amendment slipped into the appropriations bill. It forbade federal agencies to regulate the financial derivatives that greased the skids for passing along risky mortgage-backed securities to investors.

And that, my friends, is why everything's falling apart. That is why the taxpayers are now on the hook for the follies of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Bear Stearns and now the insurance giant AIG to the tune of $85 billion.

On Monday, McCain issued a tough-talk statement that he was "glad" that the feds "have said no to using taxpayer money to bail out Lehman Brothers, a position I have spoken about throughout this campaign." On Tuesday, the government did the daddy of all bailouts. It took over AIG, fearing its bankruptcy could set off a cataclysmic chain of events.

And do you know where the problems lay at AIG? They weren't in its main insurance business. They were in its derivatives-trading unit.

Last February, Fortune Magazine called Gramm "McCain's Econ Brain." Gramm lost the official title of economic adviser for making an impolitic remark about this being "a nation of whiners." But Gramm's belief in letting speculators do as they please was never an issue. And even after he left the campaign, Gramm had been mentioned as a possible Treasury secretary in a McCain administration.

Another Gramm contribution was the "Enron loophole," which prevented federal oversight of Enron's electronic energy trading. Such favors proved very expensive to consumers but profitable to the Gramms. Enron CEO Ken Lay chaired Gramm's 1992 re-election campaign, and wife Wendy Gramm spent years on the Enron board, earning as much as $1.8 million, according to Public Citizen, a consumer advocate.

So McCain's reassurances to the little people that he won't let what's happening to them happen again is rather unconvincing. McCain now talks about the need for more regulations, but he's been highly stingy with the for-instances. He wants a commission to look into it.

The Bush economy was built on baloney. It was built on keeping interest rates low so that people could borrow lots of money to spend on real estate and at the mall. The resulting housing bubble left middle-class people feeling prosperous, even as their earnings stagnated or fell.

The Democrats weren't exactly tigers on containing the housing bubble, but they did try to put the brakes on some of the lending outrages that are the root of the current crisis. For example, Barack Obama sponsored a bill that would have prevented lenders from pressing abusive loan terms onto unsophisticated, subprime borrowers. That went nowhere.

"I certainly don't fault Sen. McCain for these problems," Obama said early in the crisis, "but I do fault the economic philosophy he subscribes to."

Obama need not be so mild-mannered. McCain's economic philosophy is McCain's fault. He doesn't know much about economics — and has admitted as much — so his philosophy became a simple-minded faith in the opinion of others. And look whom he listens to.

Americans will be paying for this philosophy well into the 21st century.

Harrop is a syndicated columnist based in Providence, R.I.

Monie,

You truly have no clue what you are talking about. Vote for Obama if you choose. But I don't trust him and his sub-prime exploiting cronies and advisors with this economy.

And you think you do......Keep going over to Hot Air to copy and paste that mess over here...the least you could do is copy articles fromn legitimate news papers and other media---I got more for ya if you really want to be educated instead of listening to propanganda

There is plenty of blame to go around however, the Dems and Obama are trying to pin this all on Bush and McCain.

Get it straight and realize that your candidate is up to his ears in this mess.

Another cut and paste for y'all:

"Left-wing activists (er, "community organizers") extort trillions from our financial system to develop low-income housing (and fund political graft along the way), ultimately destabilizing our entire economy when the real estate bubble bursts. Obama has been involved in this scheme from the ground up, from securing funds in his community organizer days to doling them out as a Chicago legislator, along the way making connections with ACORN (whom he now uses as an arm of his campaign's "get-out-the-vote" efforts, despite the groups troubling record of voter fraud), and Rezko (who made millions off of developing low-income housing, and just coincidentally was one of Obama's biggest backers). This is not change I believe in."

Ha, Ha..........WOW, I guess we can assume Bush/McCain's followers have about the same grasp on issues as them...delusional is not even kind enough to desribe you.....you go from community organizer to extroting trillions from the financial system...where did you get this from, Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity


Just in case you forgot.......
George W. Bush has been president since Jan. 2001, while presiding over the "worst financial crisis in a century" and has allowed the Federal Reserve, Secretary of Treasury, and SEC to continue on with business as usual

Republicans held a majority until the 2006 elections... and a slim majority was passed to Democrats only since 2007

Gramm-Leach-Bliley was passed under a majority Republican Congress and the Senate and passed strictly on partisan lines---only 1 Democrat voted for it, 44 against it, while all Republicans voted for it ---with 1 voting present and Inofe not voting at all.

I disagree with the government mandating how much I should pay to ease the burdens of others.

I am best equipped to spend my money in ways I see fit. If I choose to employ a tutor or coach for my children, if I choose to donate to a local homeless shelter, if I choose to hire a handyman or landscaper to help with household maintenance or repairs, or if I choose to employ the divorced mother of 3 who has started he own home decorating business, how is this less patriotic than paying more taxes? How is this not 'spreading the wealth'?

It is all too easy to spend other people's money, too easy too scapegoat successful individuals 'greedy' and claim that they do not 'sacrfice enough' for others who are less fortunate.

Truth be told, I do not feel that providing a source of income for hard-working Americans is a sacrifice AT ALL. I am happy and proud to be able to say that I have earned enough money and have reached a point in my life where I no longer live pay check to pay check and that I am able to depend on and employ those who aspire to achieve as much or more than myself.

Ask any of those who depend on wealthier individuals and they will tell you that they would rather have MORE wealthy clients as opposed to a $!,000 tax cut from the federal government.

Another conservative sees the light. Wasn't this guy an NRO editor?

THE MORE I LISTEN TO AND READ ABOUT “the most liberal member of the U.S. Senate,” the more I like him. Barack Obama strikes a chord with me like no political figure since Ronald Reagan. To explain why, I need to explain why I am a conservative and what it means to me.

In 1964, at the age of 16, I organized the Dallas County Youth for Goldwater. My senior thesis at the University of Texas was on the conservative intellectual revival in America. Twenty years later, I was invited by William F. Buckley Jr. to join the board of National Review. I later became its publisher.

Conservatism to me is less a political philosophy than a stance, a recognition of the fallibility of man and of man’s institutions. Conservatives respect the past not for its antiquity but because it represents, as G.K. Chesterton said, the democracy of the dead; it gives the benefit of the doubt to customs and laws tried and tested in the crucible of time. Conservatives are skeptical of abstract theories and utopian schemes, doubtful that government is wiser than its citizens, and always ready to test any political program against actual results.

Liberalism always seemed to me to be a system of “oughts.” We ought to do this or that because it’s the right thing to do, regardless of whether it works or not. It is a doctrine based on intentions, not results, on feeling good rather than doing good.

But today it is so-called conservatives who are cemented to political programs when they clearly don’t work. The Bush tax cuts—a solution for which there was no real problem and which he refused to end even when the nation went to war—led to huge deficit spending and a $3 trillion growth in the federal debt. Facing this, John McCain pumps his “conservative” credentials by proposing even bigger tax cuts. Meanwhile, a movement that once fought for limited government has presided over the greatest growth of government in our history. That is not conservatism; it is profligacy using conservatism as a mask.

Today it is conservatives, not liberals, who talk with alarming bellicosity about making the world “safe for democracy.” It is John McCain who says America’s job is to “defeat evil,” a theological expansion of the nation’s mission that would make George Washington cough out his wooden teeth.

This kind of conservatism, which is not conservative at all, has produced financial mismanagement, the waste of human lives, the loss of moral authority, and the wreckage of our economy that McCain now threatens to make worse.

Barack Obama is not my ideal candidate for president. (In fact, I made the maximum donation to John McCain during the primaries, when there was still hope he might come to his senses.) But I now see that Obama is almost the ideal candidate for this moment in American history. I disagree with him on many issues. But those don’t matter as much as what Obama offers, which is a deeply conservative view of the world. Nobody can read Obama’s books (which, it is worth noting, he wrote himself) or listen to him speak without realizing that this is a thoughtful, pragmatic, and prudent man. It gives me comfort just to think that after eight years of George W. Bush we will have a president who has actually read the Federalist Papers.

Most important, Obama will be a realist. I doubt he will taunt Russia, as McCain has, at the very moment when our national interest requires it as an ally. The crucial distinction in my mind is that, unlike John McCain, I am convinced he will not impulsively take us into another war unless American national interests are directly threatened.

“Every great cause,” Eric Hoffer wrote, “begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.” As a cause, conservatism may be dead. But as a stance, as a way of making judgments in a complex and difficult world, I believe it is very much alive in the instincts and predispositions of a liberal named Barack Obama.

Write to wicka@dmagazine.com.

This is deep.

It gives me comfort just to think that after eight years of George W. Bush we will have a president who has actually read the Federalist Papers.


See, folks can call me an Uppity Snob if they want, but I will continue to insist that ANYONE who takes politics - not power - but politics and what it means to us as a country -SERIOUSLY.

MUST, to their CORE, be offended by the ticket of McCain/Palin.

there is no other choice.

McCain didn't even campaign in Iowa in the caucuses. And now he's acting like this is his favorite place on the map.

Two frauds running to lead the nation.

Have mercy.

Alan Goolsbee, Obama's Chief Economic Advisor:

* March 29, 2007, New York Times: “[The Center for Responsible Lending] estimated that in 2005, a majority of home loans to African-Americans and 40 percent of home loans to Hispanics were subprime loans. The existence and spread of subprime lending helps explain the drastic growth of homeownership for these same groups. Since 1995, for example, the number of African-American households has risen by about 20 percent, but the number of African-American homeowners has risen almost twice that rate, by about 35 percent. For Hispanics, the number of households is up about 45 percent and the number of homeowning households is up by almost 70 percent.”And do not forget that the vast majority of even subprime borrowers have been making their payments. Indeed, fewer than 15 percent of borrowers in this most risky group have even been delinquent on a payment, much less defaulted. When contemplating ways to prevent excessive mortgages for the 13 percent of subprime borrowers whose loans go sour, regulators must be careful that they do not wreck the ability of the other 87 percent to obtain mortgages.”

* September 23, 2007, Slate: “If you want to make money off the housing bubble, you’ll have to do it the old-fashioned way: Buy a place with a no-money-down mortgage and then flip it.”

* September 23, 2007, New York Times: “[P]eople who refuse to sell their houses for less than they paid for them are violating a cardinal rule of the market: stuff is worth what it’s worth. It doesn’t matter what you paid for it…”(B)y being hung up about whether your condominium will sell for what you paid for it, you aren’t just driving yourself crazy trying to get a buyer. You may be threatening the very performance of the economy and driving up the unemployment rate — provided that many others behave in a similar way.”

She's wearing white today. In lily-white Iowa and Wisconsin. It's after Labor Day.

I guess this is to make her look pure and bridal.

The crowd is chanting: "We want Sarah."

I wonder what exactly they want her for.

no you didn't say she's wearing White after Labor Day...

BWA HA HA HA HA HA

Its just a matter of time before they break out the rattlesnakes and start speaking in tongue. Kinda makes me long for the days of Tammy Faye - she had a bit more personality with it at least.

Cliche alert! Her voice is like nails scratching a chalkboard. Her husband looks like dolt...and sounds like one too.That being said - she just lied about Obama's tax plan, AGAIN!

T.
McCain/Palin - Siamese Twins! Pathetic that they have to campaign together. Mrs. Obama alone could probably draw the same crowds as both of them together.

T: Her voice: SMARMY; Her husband: Co-sign on the "dolt" SHE reads the LIES prepared for her. Who's breastfeeding the baby??

Mr. Obama HAS had crowds larger than both of them!

Obama-Biden '08!!

lol. Stop it Craig! RAOTFLMAO

This entire scandal has the Democrats' fingerprints all over it. And Obama's right in the middle, collecting the most money from these people -- except the odious chairman of the banking committee, Chris Dodd, who by the way received "VIP" mortgage rates from CountryWide -- and yet the Obama camp and the media (BIRM) are trying to hang it on McCain.

McCain, the guy who warned everyone in 2005 that we needed reform or precisely this would happen.

Dan Collins... Has been pounding this drum all week. Read him.

ACORN! Why did Fannie and Freddie make so many unsound loans?

Because Obama's buddies in ACORN pressured them to. And then (as the video in a previous post noted) Fannie's CEO called Barack Obama a member of the "family" and thanked him for pressuring him to make unsound loans.

Which you now have to subsidize.

And Barack Obama's Finance Chair, Penny Pritzker, has a "special place" in engineering the sub-prime meltdown:

“The [sub-prime] financial engineering that created the Wall Street meltdown was developed by the Pritzkers and Ernst and Young, working with Merrill Lynch to sell bonds securitized by sub-prime mortgages,” Timothy J. Anderson, a whistleblower on financial and bank fraud, told me in an interview.

“The sub-prime mortgages,” Anderson said, “were provided to Merrill Lynch, by a nation-wide Pritzker origination system, using Superior as the cash cow, with many millions in FDIC insured deposits. Superior’s owners were to sub-prime lending, what Michael Milken was to junk bonds.”

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02052008/postopinio...

First of all, the purpose of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was to BUY the MORTGAGES FROM LENDERS so that the lenders would have more money to lend out. The mortgage companies initially issued the loans. Mortgage companies, investment banks and FaMae and FrMac all engaged in risky behavior.

This is bullshit.

Not bullshit Craig, Facts.

Time to start trashing Palin again to distract voters from the Democrats and specifically Obama;s advsors in the sub-prime debacle.

Bullshit.

Greed is inhumane, really. If a politician wants to frame as a patriotic act the redistribution of wealth at a time when poverty, which gets little attention, especially among children, the future of our great nation, rises and rises and rises,then bravo.

If the American taxpayers can lend AIG $79 billion, then the richest among us, many of them executives for companies like AIG, can pay a bigger share of their wealth into the US treasury.

Period.

No.

Biden: Wealthy Americans Must Pay More Taxes to Show Patriotism

Yes, it's a Fox link, but the link to the video is here.

Why is this a good idea?

D~
To avoid foreclosure, I had to sell my house at a $40,000 loss--all the equity I had in it--in addition to a ruined credit rating for the next several years. To top it off, we just found out that the nice home that we're RENTING is being foreclosed on. Something the owner and his property manager failed to mention to us.

So if you think that we and the millions of people in the same boat, give a good got damn about higher taxes on wealthy people ...

you're delusional.

Ronnie, ths is horrible news and I feel for you and your family. Don't give up on your current rental home; I don't know what state you live in, but you might have the same rights to stay there as a renter vis-a-vis the bank as you do with the original landlord. One of my coworkers is in the same boat, and she'll be able to squeeze at least another two months out of her current lease. See if you can get help from a local legal aid program or from their website: this issue is happening all across the country, and in many states legislation has been passed to help out people in your situation.

Hang in there and be well!

Maybe you could ask Franklin Raines for your $40,000.

Fuck off, troll.

Not called for. You don't make light of someone's personal situation if they choose to share it.

Don't know how long you've been posting here, but that will get you hammered.

Thank you D. You are a sensible brother....by the way, I noticed you mentioned you live out in Hampton Roads---that's my neck of the woods, though I'm on the West Coast for now. I have cousins working on behalf of Obama's campaign out there and they are very optimistic about his chances---ya know, John Kerry did well in most parts of the 757, except for portions of Va Beach and Chesapeake, I think.

I know.....(rolling eyes)

What a lot of people don't know about the Hampton Roads area is that although Norfolk is where the big base is, a lot of people don't live there; they're in VA Beach and Chesapeake. There's some old-money GOPers in Norfolk, but not a whole lot.

Really, the only thing that's kept Hampton Roads-and probably most of VA-historically blue is BRAC. Shut down the right couple of bases (Oceana/Langley) or shift the largest commands (a couple carriers and their associated air wings) out, and Hampton Roads is lost to the Dems for the forseeable future.

Thanks big fella.

I offer my waterboarding service for your owner/property manager, while it's still-somewhat-legal.

Eh hee!

You know, in full disclosure, I'd be a recipient of whatever was handed out. Working for the government, this wouldn't affect me even if I was at the highest pay levels (which top out around $172K for most people). So, just by the numbers, I should be all for this.

I never suggested that you care. My problems with this policy are (1) its use of paying taxes as a measure of patriotism, and (2) compulsory giving to the less fortunate by those who are better off.

Except you know that taxes aren't simply a measure of patriotism or charity.

You know that they fund bridges, roads, law enforcement, education and your own bank account.

So no need to take an artificially staunch position on something that isn't germaine to the topic.

You're right. But that's not how it was presented.

If Biden said that this is necessary to fix our infrastructure, that's one thing. I wouldn't agree that his method was the best, but I could see the necessity.

Biden's using it as a measure of patriotism. I have a problem with that.

D, you're talking theory and semantics when there are real problems to be addressed in real ways.

I myself like how Biden is talking about this. But even if I didn't, how he's "framing" it is less important to me than what it IS.

Please focus on the real. This nation is in deep trouble. Your argument here functions as a diversion. It's like the house is burning and you're standing there criticizing the framing and phraseology of someone who offers a plan for what to do.

Nope. They're not giving charity. They're paying their fair share.

'Cause it's better than whining about a flag pin or the Pledge of Allegiance?

What? You don't believe in patriotism?

I have a problem with the numerous defense contractors who are setting up tax shelters in the Cayman Islands and escaping their tax liability, while the U.S. is borrowing money for their contracts, that we the taxpayers will have to pay.

That is straight up bullshit.

Comapanies like KBR, Blackwater Security, L-3 Communications, Titan Corporation, Dyncorp, Flour Corp, and at leat 8 others are not paying Social Security or federal taxes for their emloyees----yet our deficit has ballooned under this military-industrial complex that they benefit from. And KBR alone employs over 10,500 peple.

And it is not just defense contractors doing this, Even Mitt Romney, with all his success with the Bain Capital set up business in Bermuda and the Cayman Islands while avoiding taxes but reaping billions in profits.

So the real question is, Are the wealthy even paying taxes at all? Believe it or not, MANY aren't.

You're talking about corporations, though (and I'm not going to name the ones in your list that I've worked for, but there's a couple)-that I'd think to be different.

Ok, not paying taxes at all is a problem. That may be an argument for tax code reform to close the loopholes that allow for that kind of.....um, evasion.

Shared sacrifice is a noble goal, but this doesn't read that way. It reads as....well, income redistribution.

Shared sacrifice means you share according to your means.

But is it truly "sacrifice" if the government's making you do it?

Fine. Drop the "sacrifice" ...you're left with "sharing".

And again, if the government's making you do it-in essence, taking-is it really "sharing?

D, to echo TruthSeeker ... The US government makes ALL of us do and not do certain things.

You are speaking as if there is currently nothing the government requires of us as citizens and all of a sudden Senators Obama and Biden are adding some new thing called "government makes you do it." That's not true.

I know there are free market fundamentalists. This is how it works: they have a theory about how a truly free market would work (Adam Smith, Milton Friednam etc, invisible hand, individual selfishness supposed to magically lead to shared good). The fact that this theory doesn't actually work like the theory says it should ... well, the free-market fundies attribute this to lack of full market freedom. It's never the fault of the theory. It's never that the actual embodied reality that the theory doesn't actually work in actual practice. No, like fundamentalists of all stripes, these people see failure of their theory not as an indication that the theory is flawed, but as an indication that they're right and others are wrong.

I continue to see your arguments here as diversionary. As focusing on theory rather than -- I'm goingt o say it -- real solutions to real problems in the real world.

That depends on whether you've set up an adversarial relationship with government...which you have. By being a citizen, there's tacit agreement to abide by law. Disagreement allows you to go elsewhere.

But we have already been practicing income redistribution, out tax dollars going out of the country for private enterprises. Not humanitarian aid, not national defense but good old profits for good old boys.

ENOUGH.

I don't think that could technically be called "redistribution," as there's no change in where the money goes. The profits go to the businesses, and the businesses reward-in compensation-the people who bring in the large profits to the businesses.

Well, I am no economic guru, but I know earlier this year, it was reported that the Government Accountability Office (GAO) said that in the time period between 1998 and 2005, an annual average of 1.3 million U.S. companies and 39,000 foreign companies doing business in the U.S. paid no income taxes---despite having a combined $2.5 trillion in revenue. Even foreign companies get a damn break. And yet, the income disparity has grown enormously in the past 8 years while the deficit balloons and the MAJORITY of Americans have to choose to eat, put gas in the car, or become delinquent on their bills.

Even with this financial crisis, do you see any of the disgraced, greedy executives showing their face saying "we fucked up." No, they get to hide and dodge responsibility---I want to see these mofos fined . There is no way in hell banks that have been in business for 150 plus years did not know they were running shoddy ass business practices and they were going to collapse

And George W. Bush didn't even want cameras initially recording his dumb ass talking about it. All he had to offer months ago was "Wall Street got drunk."

Yet, Bush made sweeping changes to the bankruptcy laws that made it more difficult for the average man to claim a Chapter 7 bankruptcy, but bails out those who showed the most recklessness..

The deal with the contractors pisses me off. It seems so unAmerican to use taxpayer dollars to ger rich but avoid paying your share .Yet our servicemembers are only exempt from taxes when they are down-range and get a measly ass 3.5% raise each year when inflation eats that up. And you know, even when the troops are home after a deployment, they are getting ready to deploy again and are away from family with training exercises. They don't get no handouts---or no immunity when they fuck up in Iraq.

We agree in part: where there's been criminal acts, the guilty should be punished in some way, shape or form.

Most Americans I know look at their 'fair share' and figure they’re patriotic enough. They’d prefer electing people who start acting responsibly with their money, rather than demand even more from them to prove their patriotism.

If you loved America, you'd pay more.

Then stroke your check.

Gotta ask, though.....from where you are, will any of this affect you?

I only like America.

Like Charlie Rangle.

It's Rangel. Slagging on folk is much more effective when you spell their names correctly.

Carry on.

Well, Obama has to wear a cheaply made flag pin to show his patriotism, so what's the problem?

Republicans require a $3-$4 flag pin to show patriotism; while the dhimmicrats want more of your money to show it.

Which sounds better to you?

I don't have a problem sharing my money if the cause is worth it.

My paycheck takes care of our family, my parents, some senior citizens in my community, sponsors childrens programs, some charities to include homeless programs, reaching out to the victims of Hurricane Ike, and my kids school (i.e. paying for school supplies, technology equipment, after school programs, cultural arts and enrichment programs, supplementing the costs teachers pay out of pocket to make sure all kids in the school has basic materials).

I don't have much -- but it is my responsibility to help out where I can.

Are you okay with the government compelling you to do so, or would you prefer to give more voluntarily?

Giving more voluntarily is called charity. Paying a fair share of taxes is a responsibility and privilege of citizenship.

I don't have a problem with it. I would like to be able to dictate more how my money would be spent.

Seniors is my number 1, Education is my number 2 and then to help with lifting up the folks who just want a chance or who is down on their luck but just need a hand up to get where they need to go.

I don't know if that's an option, so I can't argue for/against that.

What about the chronically "down on their luck?"

I don't support that. I think I said it before that I work with at risk male teens (for roughly aobut almost 20 years now) and I can identify the ones who truly want a hand up and those who want a hand out.

The already know what to expect from me so . . .. I give them the guidance/training/tools that they need to take the next step, and after a specific time frame -- they know they have to stand on their own.

And there's part of my problem:

Those who truly want the "hand up" will, given the time, training, and resources, be in the position where they become the "givers" instead of the "recipients." And those who just want the "hand out" will stay in their position as long as someone is willing to give to them.

Unfortunately, there's no way to distinguish between the two. And I wouldn't want-nor would I expect anyone else to-pay into a system that doesn't encourage people to move from the "hand out" to the "hand up."

Maybe if that was reconciled, my concern over this wouldn't exist.

but D - what does the decision to "do nothing" accomplish?

I'm not saying "do nothing." I just don't see that this is the best solution.

:-)

I LOVE YOU D!

c'mon. It isn't that bad. Bottom line - Biden got a bit excited with his words. He just meant - as Americans we tend to step up in times of crisis. Call it patriotism . . . whatever. That is just who we are as a people. Most of us step up.

Now that billions of dollars were given away from out govt to bail out banks over the last few days and seeing that we are still funding wars in other countries . . . what other solution do you have to offer?

LOL; I'm not that smart.

My current knowledge of economics-and granted, I'm living the crash course with a lot of others-extends to economics as a matter of national security. I know if we don't do something, the Chinese are gonna come knocking like the repo man. And unfortunately, at present, we don't have the military to turn him back.

RAOTFLMAO

want to clarify -- I volunteer a lot. One of my programs target at risk male teens

Are you putting a price on patriotism?

I'm of the opinion that you shouldn't have to pay money to show your patriotism. More than that, the government has no right to measure my patriotism by what I pay in taxes.

Hah!...this is sooo damned funny.

well we are paying for the Iraq war -- a war that if citizens say they oppose -- critics are ready to scream that we are unpatriotic . . . . so

Patriotism is helping each other out, working together for the greater good, stepping up in times of crisis (even financial crisis) so . . .Again -- I don't have a problem with it. It is not like they are going to take ALL my money so . . . sacrifice I would be willing to make.

I'll pose the same question to you that I did above (since I know you'll give me a straight answer): is it truly "sacrifice" if the government's making you do it?

not sure what you want me to say -- I pay taxes and that is required by the govt. They MAKE me do it now. I know the money is used to serve different purposes -- (some I agree with and some I do not) but if they take additional money from me and it is for a good cause (i.e. helping fellow citizens get through tough times . . ) I don't have any problem with it. Especially if I am not the only one carrying the load.

Now, I am not past the $250K mark at this point but I wouldn't mind contributing anyway to help get through this crunch . . . .If I were at $250K or higher mark today, my question would be how much more would I be taxed based on my income. . . .

I believe the plan is to allow the Bush tax cuts to expire and roll back the taxes to reflect where they were when the Clintons were in the White House.

Now, I am not past the $250K mark at this point but I wouldn't mind contributing anyway to help get through this crunch...

That's patriotism AND sacrifice. Those who have to give, and want to of their own free will, by all means do so.

I just don't see how compelling people to act like you would is beneficial or helpful.

The more I read your arguments on this, D, the more I realize I had no idea you are some sort of anarchist!

:)

I've been called several things in life, but never an anarchist.

How'd you come to that conclusion?

You might be some sort of "individualist anarachist" -- but I'd have to study it more to know for sure.

Interesting that of my three comments in response to your arguments today, this is the one you chose to reply to.

"I just don't see how compelling people to act like you would is beneficial or helpful."

I am not sure I follow you on that statement. The economy is the way it is. 95% of Americans fall under the category of the middle class. A certain percentage of the middle class could use a break financially. To have the folks who can afford to pay a bit more would allow the government to continue to "run" the country while allowing the rest of the country the opportunity to pay their bills, send their child to college, allow a senior to pay for healthcare AND by food . . is helpful and beneficial.

Look at how the government chose to use our money over the last few days. How much money was that D? Can you imagine if that money went into the pockets of the middle class?

Look at how much of our money the Govt is spending in Iraq -- can you imagine if that money would be spent right here at home?

Something has to give. The economy is the way it is. So "compelling people to pay more" or to allow the Bush tax cuts to expire and roll the numbers back to the way they were under Clinton is beneficial and is helpful to dig help us get out of this financial mess.

The money we've spent on the War on Terror and in the recent bailouts would tremendously benefit the middle class. To acknowledge otherwise would be dishonest.

Flipside: we all know that there's a percentage-maybe small, but existent-that would love nothing more than for the government to give them money that they do nothing to earn. These are the people who aren't paying a child's way through school, who don't have to make the choice between food and bills....I'm talking about the ones living in government housing and driving a Lexus.

And it's THOSE people who will just love something like this, cause it requires absolutely nothing from them. They're not sacrificing anything, so why should people sacrifice financially for them?

I don't care how much you make; to me, there's something wrong about that. Now, if you choose to do so, then that's on you and God will bless you for it. But to make people do it? I have a problem with that.

Why would you think the money is going to go into the hands people that do nothing to earn?

You are going to get a percentage of your income back into your pocket. So my sense is if you earned $0 you get $0. Wait . . . I think you are looking at it from the wrong perspective D.

Look at Obama's plan again. That should clarify things. You are thinking -- Why should my hard earned money go to non-workers. Well unemployment are at an all time high in this country. Folks were LAID off D. So . . . anyway. . . let us agree to disagree on this one. Take care of you and yours.

Maybe I am; that's fair.

When I hear of things like this, my thoughts immediately go to the people who (for lack of a better term) seem determined to rely on the government as their sole sorce of living. They deserve nothing until they make some effort to better themselves.

I'm not talking about people who get laid off, are putting a child-or themselves-through school, seniors, or people who got bit by a bad situation. Those people deserve some measure of assistance; a "hand up."

I don't think we're that far apart on this one. I have more fun disagreeing with you than just about anyone else here.

:)

You are right dont pay more to support our countries infrastructure, wars of choice.Just do what your President says "Go Shopping" Why do republicans hate America?

So whose patriotism is worth more?

The executives at Lehman Bros, Merrill Lynch, AIG, Bear Stearns, Washington Mutual, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac -- and every wealthy participant and recipient of the monetary excesses that inured to their benefit ...

ought to pay more taxes. They benefit at the expense of ordinary Americans, and as such should pay their fair share.

"Who were two of the CEOs who got big bailout packages from the Fannie/Freddie GSEs? Jim Johnson and Franklin Raines. Which candidate has them as advisers to his campaign? Barack Obama.

You know what would be patriotic? Congressmen like Barack Obama and Joe Biden attacking government spending, not trying to beef up government revenues (and doing so in the most destructive way, by attacking capital needed for investment). Biden could be patriotic by revealing his pork-barrel record, something he has consistently failed to do. Who gets Biden’s earmarks? Why can’t Biden be patriotic and forego earmarks?"

You're saying two different things: on one hand they "ought to pay more taxes," but on the other they "should pay their fair share."

Seems like it's either one or the other.

Besides (and this is what I'm going to blog on later) how does this motivate me to want to be successful? More importantly, how does this motivate anyone else to want to improve their financial standing?

You're assuming what they do pay, IS their fair share. It is not.

You're assuming what they do pay, IS their fair share. It is not.

IMO That right there is indicative of a whole structure of unquestioned assumptions informing D's philosophy here.

Interesting to me how he comes with these heavy untouchable/unquestionable assumptions but says that you need to "prove" your statement.

D is a magnificent violin with just one string.

;-)

Prove that. Show me how it isn't.

This is a funny thing, asking for proof of what fairness is. I'm not aware of what proof would constitute. We could look to the Bible or other documents describing, over history, what various people have agreed-upon as "fair" for that moment in time, but there doesn't ever seem to be a "correct" answer.

Of the various arguments you make, the one I find least compelling is the idea of taxation as compulsory charity. This is patently absurd, given that government -- especially a democracy -- is a willing subsuming of the individual to a collective cause. How big that cause is, is up to debate, of course.

Would the richest 1,000 people in America be so rich without the entire system in place that enables our nation to be so powerful, not just the military that prevents, er, Canada from taking over our wealth, but also the educational system, etc. that helps keeps the country stable and worth living in?

It's very debatable which of those things are "necessary" to the country, and every individual citizen would choose a different set of priorities than the result of the "wisdom of the crowds" (and yes, lobbyists). But no one of us is going to have the perfect government and perfect distribution of expenditures.

If all of this compulsion were so bad, the rich are rich enough to choose another nation to make their fortunes. They don't. What does that tell you?

I'm finding myself shocked in agreeing with David Brooks of late, who's arguing for a communitarian rather than liberal basis for Republicanism -- that even social science is finding that the idea of individualism is only partly real and partly an illusion - that there is a basis for the idea that the welfare of our neighbors does, in fact, directly impact our lives, both morally and in more tangible ways. Letting the very poorest and least well-off in our country fail because they "deserve it" may not even be the most efficient way to run an economy, never mind the moral considerations.

You know there are successful people in Sweden.

When I was eighteen I got to travel up and down Sweden with a girl who had been an exchange student in my town. We met up with a doctor and his family and they gave us tea and cookies. We spoke of the political system there and he said he could have made a lot more money in the US but look around, we were at his summer cottage, it was nice and cozy. He said he became a doctor to practice medicine not to become rich. It gave him a good life and when his son was very ill, the medicine and doctors he needed were there. He got the very best care and it didn't mortgage the family's future,

The idea that one must be rich to give incentive is not the only reason to do well. It isn't necessarily the best one, either.

The idea that one must be rich to give incentive is not the only reason to do well. It isn't necessarily the best one, either.

I agree. And really, I wonder at the lack of (or numbing of) what I would call deep feeling in people who think the only incentive/motivation to do well is to get rich.

And I wonder: Do the people who promote this ideology maybe have no other internal experiences themselves that show them there is a different way? That is, do those people really have no other non-financial wellspring in themselves for excellence?

(if so -- by my standards they should not be in charge of any decisions for a nation, since they are lacking something really crucial in terms of humanity)

They re-aired "Sicko" on the weekend. It should be required viewing for everyone. There was a similar sentiment expressed by the British doctors.

D,

You're right. If we adopt a "Robin Hood' mentality we will become a welfare-state. Right now, I believe hard-working, home-owing, bill-paying, 401K investing Americans do not want 'retribution' as much as 'assurance.'

The graphic posted at the top of this post is there to make Obama supporters 'optimistic' about the future prospects for their candidate.

Every election cycle we hear Democrats giggle with glee that the prospect of a poor economy will help them win elections. Why is it that Democrats seem to love misery? Why do they believe that 'shared misery' is preferable to 'shared prosperity'?

Obama has throughout his career been nothing more than a big-city, welfare-state politician. He has great ideas about how to redistribute wealth, but no ideas about how to create it. He wants to punish through taxation, every corporation in every sector that could grow the economy and create jobs. Through higher taxation on 'wealthier' Americans he seeks to choke off income streams for countless 'cash economy' workers, sole proprietors of small businesses and entrepreneurs trying to grow their client base.

The underlying problem of this current crisis is the sub-prime mortgage market that was designed to give minorities a better opportunity to own a home. But instead of exposing and eliminating descriminatory lending practices, they eased restrictions and allowed more and more borrowers to take on debt that they could not afford. ACORN/ CBC/ and Frannie and Freddie pushed and pushed and pushed and paid and paid and paid Washington to turn a blind eye to their recklessness.

Check this out::

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvG-s_Ssb0&eurl...

Democrats need to stop acting like brides that have been left at the altar one time too many. Because of 2000 and 2004, they gnash their teeth and clutch their pearls(faux) when our guy dips in the polls OR when even when our guy is up but the pundits say he's still not doing well enough.

Now the GOP and the punditocracy KNOW that we are so scared and abused and shit, so they feed on our insecurity, and what do we do? We start aiming fire at our guy despite evidence that the naysayers are wrong. Instead of chilling the hell out and doubling down on voter registration and such the like, we start hissing at each other and Obama - DO MORE, BE SOMEBODY ELSE(show your righteous rage), MONEYBOMB 527's BECAUSE OBAMA ADS ARE NOT EFFECTIVE ENOUGH(yep, the geniuses at dkos did this). While the instigators of this madness sit back and watch us flounder and lose, AGAIN.

Now, why do I bring this up today. Here's why, and, why, and why. Obama and the campaign have basically set us on a decisive course of victory, no question about that, and just because McBush is not have a 2-point lead anymore, the race is supposedly TIGHT and WE ARE SLIPPING TOWARDS DEFEAT.

Don't y'all just love it?

So, for what it's worth - Democrats, hang tight for the next 47 days. Keep your eye on the ball. Don't get complacent about the 66M last month. He's gonna need every penny we can afford to give him so that he can focus on his work on the stump, the debates, ad. assault etc.

And, most of all, we need to stay calm. Don't allow yourself to be wound up because of the highs and lows that will inevitably be a part of the next 47 or however many days. If there is one thing I am dead certain of: Nervous Nellies Never WIn...They get left at the fucking altar. (LOL! No and that's not by personal experience...just observation.)

But not this year!

Obama Biden '08.

T.
ps. Be vigilant with the media. Don't start believin' that they are all on our side now. They profit from a close race. 'nough said.

"T.
ps. Be vigilant with the media. Don't start believin' that they are all on our side now. They profit from a close race. 'nough said."

-Word.

I'm expecting the media to flip any day now.

Exactly Admiral - I figured the same thing too.l Next week, they will be singing another song. I pay no attention to the polls . . .I take nothing for granted.

Preach.

Hey Craig.

Did you see the email Plouffe sent out asking for 39 million for Florida? Do you think they're getting ready to break McCain's back trying to defend the state?

They think they can win Florida. Plouffe said exactly why.

I think Barack is actually going to win Florida on turnout alone.

I was listening to an NPR discussion about polling from internal pollsters on both sides. Interestingly, the Barack pollster made it clear they don't discuss internals so kept his comments to the pubic polling. The McCain pollster revealed far too much.

But I digress.

Both sides agree on one thing: their turnout models are shots in the dark.

Any poll that's within 6-10 points is advantage Barack. Any poll that's within 5 points is LIKELY Barack.

Why do you think McCain is targeting Florida Democratic seniors with confusing mailers already?

TSker, I wondered the same thing...put McBush on defense in FL...

T.

Hey Truthseeker. I got that email today and you know what -- I finally got my husband to switch to the Democratic party and he made his first donation to Barack today.

Val: Congratulations!! :>)

That is wonderful! I hope he hits 100 million this month.

Co-sign.

Obama said something similar at the 'glitzy' hollywood fundraiser, KEEP STEADY! No one said it was going to be easy, but don't give up, I believe we will win this thing. I just need folks to stop feeding into the media induced anxiety.

Fear sells, are you buying?

I am not. You can tell the media is set to shift the tides again. Watched Chris Matthews for 2 mins and switched the channel.

I ain't buyin. My intent is to limit my tv news time next week. Of course I have to watch the debate next Friday.

I am not buying. My expectation is that it will get downright nasty over the next few weeks . . . . but hey -- labor is never easy.

For people worried about their savings and the institutions their money is in:
Bankrate.com
Imoney.net
the latter will walk you through money funds and how to read the prospectus. This is important because it tells you what the fund holds.
I would suggest that you try not to move anything tell there is some calming down(I know this is extremely difficult to guage). One, the info available has a lag; portfolio's are probalby radically changing to be safer. Two, it costs to make changes and if you portfolio is OK you want to make the change the least costly to you; in this environment it is going to be hard as these firms are desperate to find income.

Rob M: YOUR information is valuable. Thank you! :>)

We keep hearing over and over again about how "Institution X is too important to let fail." And I'm not in a great position to second-guess just how important those institutions are, and whether their demise would lead to worldwide depression or what. But what I do now know is that when things are "too important to fail," Republican free-marketers suddenly become the biggest proponents of socialist welfare I've ever seen.

Why is is to so hard for them to accept that ordinary people are "too important to let fail"?

They would rather bail out these companies than pay for Health care for ordinary people. Funny since during my MBA classes they keep preaching that people are your number 1 resource I guess the US government doesn't believe that.

Socialize Welfare for big companies but not Socialize medicine for ordinary people

Maybe "ordinary people" need to band together and incorporate...hey, that's Government!??

You have no clue what you are talking about. The government takeover of AIG was done to protect ordinary people and confine the crisis to the financial sector.

The great national experiment, that began with the Clinton Admnistration/Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac/the CBC and ACORN in attempting to push the home ownership rate above 65 percent has ended in disaster. Future homebuyers will be held to higher standards of creditworthiness—and will have to put more money down. That is how it should be.

Barack Obama’s attempt to condemn “Bush-McCain” economic policy evades the need to produce specific solutions of his own. Obama is a classic big-city welfare-state politician. He has lots of ideas about how to share wealth created by others—but very few about how to ensure that wealth is created in the first place.

In attributing the mess on Wall Street to “Bush McCain” policies, Obama omits a key point: the specific policy underlying the mess is one he has enthusiastically endorsed throughout his career—the use of public loan guarantees to stimulate private home construction.

As a state legislator, Obama famously championed “public-private partnerships” to renovate slum housing. On a very small scale, he was advocating the same approach that has stuck the taxpayer with liability for uncounted tens or hundreds of billions of dollars in Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac obligations. It didn’t work any better in Chicago than it worked in Washington and New York.

Joe Biden echoes Obama's positions when he says higher taxes on tthe wealthy is 'patriotic.' Democrats want those who make over $250,00 to hand over and at least, additional $20,000 a year to the government. And what exactly will they do with it?

Will 'ordinary people' be happy with an extra $1,000 at the expense of losing many times that amount as the federal government swallows up the incomes of their clients? Tutors, coaches, landscapers, housekeepers, handymen, and thousands of other entrepreneurs and small business owners will see their customer base dwindle or disappear as a Democrat controlled administration would demand more money to feed the likes of the COEs of Fannie and Freddie who cozy up to influence and advise Obama while they line their pockets with TENS OF MILLIONS of dollars.

Ordinary people thats a joke. Ordinary people don't have insurance with AIG. The Bush admin is trying to protect it's investment. Insurance companies are more about investing your premium than paying claims. They invested their clients premiums in shitty investments and now they are in trouble.

Go look who gets paid first or at all when a company fails.

Quit whining.

Specifically, what is McCain going to do about this crisis?

Boooo - we don't believe you, you need more people.

I always know I've made my point when I get intelligent rebuttals like that.

If Obama wants to show Americans that he is willing to make meaningful 'change' he should release Raines and Johnson as economic advisors . He return the payoffs he recieved to look the other way on Fannie/Freddie abuses.

Otherwise, he has no record of reform to run on.

ANd McCain need to release Aquiles Suarez who lobbied for Fannie Mae' s infleunce with over $47 million dollars and ......Carly Fiorina who had to be forced from Hewlett-Packard after running the company into the ground after many thousands lost their jobs and she walked away with $21 mil and another $20 mil in severance.....and Phil Gramm, godfather of deregulation of banking and energy markets with the Enron loophole whose own wife was on the board of Enron and we know what happened to them....or maybe he can scold his son Andrew McCain who was on the board and audit committee of Silver State bank which failed in September while he conveniently jumped ship in July, resigning over "personal reasons"---when actually he was trying not to embarass his father.
And how about John "Keating 5" McCain himself---his own banking scandal that stole billions from others.....

"Otherwise, he has no record of reform to run on."

-That sums up John McCain in a nutshell.

Stop Making Sense. I couldn't agree more.

Listen to the FIRST woman in this series of interviews -- gives me HOPE:

http://www.npr.org/templates/player/mediaPlayer...

Thanks, that was good.

Hi Rikyrah - please post this 30 minute Biden-Clinton webcast. Excellent piece. Hope they do more.
************************************

As part of the Obama campaigns Women for the Change We Need Week of Action, Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton got together for a conversation with women on the issues that are most important to them.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h1pLEqI3Pw&eurl...

Elsewhere, I had the opportunity to state my economic case to a so-called "fiscal libertarian:

The reason I referenced Big Republican Government, is because they're the party of fiscal responsibility; they're the party of laissez-faire; and they've been the party in power for 6+ out of the last 8 years. As such, this climate of privatized profit and socialized risk was created and permitted on their watch.

So I'm hardly buying the notion that this latest (inevitable) financial crisis, is somehow news to the "fiscal libertarians" among us.

Where were the Republican vanguards of fiscal sanity? Where were the GOP economic watchdogs? Where were the clarion calls of all those cloth coat Republicans and fiscal libertarians who swore to keep America's economic ship right and steady?

Here they come. After 8 years of looking the other way, while cashing in on the good times ... now they're outraged. Now they demand answers.

My answer? Y'all made this deal with the devil, so go to hell and deal with it.

I'm 50 on Chris Matthews, but last night he did his thang! He destroyed Congressman Cantor from VA, and gave the Obama Campaign a lot of good material and talking points. I really liked the comparison to Katrina. Wall Street is flooded and the waters are headed for Main Street and just like Katrina the President is no where to be found and his troops are taking off their Republican uniforms. Love it!

NMP,

You might have seen this Obama ad already but they're hitting McCain's Social Security stance pretty hard. Thought about your comment yesterday when I saw it.

rikyrah: Detroit gets a new mayor @12:01a.m. Friday, Sept. 19

http://blackpoliticsontheweb.com/2008/09/17/coc...
Cockrel Will Be Sworn In As Detroit Mayor. .

he city’s next mayor named a former federal prosecutor as his chief deputy Wednesday, signaling a theme of clean government after months of embarrassing scandal from Kwame Kilpatrick.

Saul Green will be deputy mayor when City Council President Ken Cockrel Jr. becomes mayor Friday.

Kilpatrick’s last day is Thursday, forced out of office in a plea bargain that will send him to jail for obstruction of justice.


Obama-Biden '08!

rikyrah: More polls - - -

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/17/batt...
Polls: Obama-McCain Tied In 5 Battleground States

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- New polls in five battleground states that could decide the presidency suggest the fight for the White House between Sens. John McCain and Barack Obama remains a dead heat.

SKIP



The poll suggests Obama is staying competitive in two red states that his campaign is trying to turn blue.

In the poll, 907 registered voters in Florida, 890 registered voters in Indiana, 910 registered voters in North Carolina, 913 registered voters in Ohio and 950 registered votes in Wisconsin were questioned by telephone.

The sampling error is 3.5 percentage points in Florida, Indiana, and North Carolina and 3 percentage points in Ohio and Wisconsin.

NOTE: I put in the samples used for the polls and how the data were collected.


Obama-Biden '08!

rikyrah: This comes under the heading - Oooooo! She said "redneck!" :>)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/17/new-mc...
New McCainiac Rothschild Weighs In On "Rednecks"

After coming out as a Democrat for John McCain earlier in the day, Lady Lynn Forester de Rothschild made her first slip as a surrogate during a CNN appearance on Wednesday. In deflecting a question about whether or not she was bitter over Clinton's loss in the primary, the new McCain surrogate pivoted to a discussion of Barack Obama's notorious "bitter" remarks, but added a twist of her own -- describing the small-town voters Obama was talking about as "rednecks."

What also may not advance the dialogue for McCain's campaign is the too-casual (and potentially insulting) use of slang to describe small-town voters. Though Obama was tagged for seeming to slight the beliefs of the citizens he was talking about, he was never accused of condescending to the level of using the phrase "rednecks" to describe them.

It could also be that Rothschild was clumsily trying to paraphrase Obama's old remarks. But that explanation is also problematic, since Obama never used the word in the first place.

Requests for a response from an Obama rep went unreturned. But if the multi-millionaire Rothschild becomes a frequent surrogate for McCain -- and should she continue to argue that Obama is unforgivably elitist in his own tone -- slips of this nature will likely not go unremarked upon for long.

Is this who she was talking about?

http://www.geocities.com/redneck_jokes/
100 Redneck Jokes

Talk about elitist, LADY!! ,/b> :>)

They made Carly go bye-bye and she was riding and dying for McCain so they can easily tell Lady Lynn de Asshole "Cheerio!" as well.

Town: I want ta know which Repug is going to be offended by the "R" word??

Notice that none of the "visitors" here have been! :>)

For serious! "Lady Lynn Forester de Rothschild" ? Ha ha -- here's someone who knows something about elitism! Is she some kind of Obama double agent? Seems to be out of central casting!

Anderkoo: Can't ya just see her - pinky UP; sip tea! :>) :>)

rikyrah: Here are some more financial negotiations!!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122168156315148...
Morgan Stanley in Talks With Wachovia, Others

Morgan Stanley sought shelter from the growing financial storm Wednesday, entering preliminary merger talks with Wachovia Corp. and other banks as a seventh straight decline in the company's share price sent the stock to its lowest level since 1998.

After a harrowing day, Morgan Stanley's shares finished down $6.95, or 24%, to $21.75. Goldman Sachs Group, the largest U.S. investment bank by market value, also fell $18.51, or 14%, to $114.50.

Get your popcorn, take your seat and put your feet up!! This is going to be a loooooong week!!


Whew!! Financial Storms Deep Breaths!!


Obama-Biden '08!

rikyrah: "McAncient" talks out of both sides of his mouth!

http://www.newser.com/article/d938argo0/mccain-...
McCain Cast Himself As Both A Washington Insider and An Outsider

John McCain embraces and expels Washington like an accordion player belting out a song.

Squeeze in and he touts his vast knowledge of the capital city. Draw out and he casts himself a reformer bent on changing its ways.

It's a remarkable dichotomy echoed throughout the Republican establishment, as a party that's held the White House for the past eight years tries to retain its grip in what has shaped up as a change election.

SKIP

"I know how to fix it. I know how to fix the corruption," he said of the nation's economic problems during an appearance Tuesday on NBC's "Today" show. "I've been fighting it the whole time I've been in Congress."

Is this like - "Beating up on myself??"

Can we say - multiple personalities?? :>)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U7HaQ-jUd8
I Talk To Myself - Chris Williams

Obama-Biden '08

rikyrah: Answer: Because he's Black!

QUESTION: "Whycome" the GOP continues to play "dirty tricks"?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13516...
GOP Group Behind Negative Obama Poll

A Republican group is taking responsibility for a poll that has roiled the Jewish community by asking sharply negative questions about Senator Barack Obama.

The Republican Jewish Coalition, which is launching a campaign against Obama on behalf of Senator John McCain, sponsored the poll to "understand why Barack Obama continues to have a problem among Jewish voters," the group's executive director, Matt Brooks, told Politico.

The poll asked voters their response to negative statements about Obama, including reported praise for him from a leader of the Palestinian terror group Hamas and a friendship early in his career with a pro-Palestinian university professor. Some Jewish Democrats who received the poll – including a New Republic writer who lives in Michigan – were outraged by the poll, describing it in interviews as "ugly" and disturbing. A group that supports Obama, the Jewish Council for Education and Research even staged a protest outside the Manhattan call center from which the calls originated Tuesday.

"If the RJC is responsible for these calls, which are designed to frighten Jews and sow mistrust, they have forfeited their place at the Jewish table," said the co-executive director of the group, Mik Moore. "It is incumbent upon the McCain campaign to speak out forcefully against this and ongoing efforts by his supporters to scare Jews into supporting his candidacy."

Brooks, however, denied that the poll was meant to influence Jewish voters, and said it was a traditional poll meant to gauge the opinions of Jewish voters.

"What we did is test, in standard polling methodology, a number of factual issues that have been reported on in the press and are policy positions to see how they're resonating in the Jewish community," said Brooks. "The notion that this is a 'push poll' is offensive to us."

Brooks said the RJC, whose board includes advisors and fundraisers for Senator John McCain, had placed 750 calls to Jewish voters in five states: Florida, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey. He accused the protesters of "intimidation."

Mark Blumenthal, editor of the website Pollster.com, said the form of the poll, and its length of 15 minutes, made it more likely to be a traditional "message testing" survey than a "push poll," in which brief calls are made to deliver a message and the caller typically has no interest in the results. He added, however, that in some cases a pollster might anticipate—and welcome—the possibility that negative questions would draw media attention and, indirectly, amplify the pointed statements.

Certainly, they have drawn attention: After first reporting on two voters who were polled, Politico was contacted by a half-dozen more, and many Jewish Obama backers are livid at the survey.

"The fact that the Republican Jewish Coalition is targeting Jewish Americans with these disgraceful and deceitful tactics fits in perfectly with the dishonorable campaign that John McCain has chosen to run. Peddling lies and hateful distortions to scare Jewish voters is reprehensible and deeply disrespectful to Jewish Americans," said Florida Congressman Robert Wexler, an Obama supporter.

The poll may not itself have been aimed at delivering a single message, but it does point to the group's possible lines of attack on Obama in the heated battle for Jewish votes. John McCain's hawkish, pro-Israel credentials, and nervousness in the Jewish community over both Obama's promise of diplomacy with Iran and the false rumors that he is a Muslim and hostile to Israel had produced polls over the summer that showed Obama winning about two thirds of the Jewish vote. That's a substantial margin, but a narrower one than Al Gore and John Kerry took, and a worrisome issue for the Democrats, particularly in Florida.

THERE IS MORE.

Obama-Biden '08!

rikyrah: Still laughing at this line!! Go Obama!! :>)

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com...
Obama: The Washington Old-Boy Network Is A McCain "Staff Meeting"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4avFVDKCIA

rikyrah: Rangel is put "on blast" - again!

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/...
Wrangling Over Rangel Tax Flubs: What Do We Know

There's nothing that inspires confidence like the chair of the House Ways and Means Committee -- the body that writes our tax laws -- submitting a financial disclosure form in which the value for one piece of property varies by as much as 10 times from one page to another. But that's the case with embattled New York Democrat Charlie Rangel.

SKIP

On Monday, it was announced that the accountant had found additional discrepancies.

As summarized by the Associated Press:


-Rangel's papers over the past 10 years show no reference to the sale of a home he once owned on Colorado Avenue in Washington.
-The details of a property bought in Sunny Isles, Fla., are bewildering at best. The stated value changes significantly from year to year, and even page to page, from $50,000 to $100,000 all the way up to $500,000.
-Some of the entries for investment funds fluctuate strangely, suggesting that the person either didn't have accurate information or didn't fill out the paperwork correctly.

In a statement put out alongisde the announcement of the discrepencies, Rangel said:

"While over the years I delegated to my staff the completion of my annual House financial disclosure statements, I had the ultimate responsibility. I owed my colleagues and the public adherence to a higher standard of care not only as a member of Congress but even more as the chair of the House Ways and Means Committee," he said.

And it was reported today that Rangel has asked the Ethics Committe to allow him to use campaign contributions to pay for the forensic audit of his tax returns and disclosure forms -- which could end up costing more than $100,000.

Right now, the jury is still out on what this all adds up to. At best, Rangel has been irresponsibly lax in the management of his financial affairs. And he may have been deliberately mendacious. But as things currently stand, there's little evidence of a quo for the quid.

On the issue of the Harlem apartments, Rangel did have a 2005 meeting with a lobbyist for the Olnick Association, the company that owns the building in question, when Olnick was seeking government approval for two building projects in the Bronx and Harlem. But both Olnick and Rangel say the Congressman took no action on the company's behalf, and neither project advanced.

And as for the Dominican vila, there's no evidence whatsoever that Rangel took steps to help the company that owned the complex, or that his failure to pay taxes on the villa income, or make proper disclosures to Congress, was abetted by anyone seeking favors from him.

Still, at the very least, Rangel's inability to personally comply with the tax laws doesn't inspire much confidence that he's the best person to be writing those laws.

I ask, again, Did you think that you could act/do like the white boys?


Obama-Biden '08

rikyrah: Indiana Poll

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?A...

O = 47% M =44%

Sen. Barack Obama holds a tenuous lead over Sen. John McCain in Indiana, with one in four likely voters saying they could change their mind on who to support for president, according to a new Indianapolis Star-WTHR (Channel 13) poll.

Obama's three-point lead in the poll, 47 percent to 44 percent, reinforces Indiana's status as a battleground in the race for the White House.

Obama-Biden '08!!

this poll is the equivalent to that poll in Iowa that they called The Gold Standard. Everyone mocked it before the Iowa Caucus, but they wound up being right on the money, proving themselves once again. This outfit in Indiana is their equivalent, so this is a HUGE POLL.

rikyrah: Thank you for this explanation. This is what I need to make sense of some of the information that I gather.

Again, thank you! :>)

Campaign t-shirt site....not affiliated with Obama...so O doesn't get any of the cash.
http://oballin.com/
-------------------------------------------
Biden, Clinton Chat It Up In 30-Minute Webcast
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/18/biden-...
-------------------------------------------
this might turn out to be so good for Obama, I wonder if she's a plant? LOL:
New McCainiac Rothschild Weighs In On "Rednecks"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/17/new-mc...

Wasilla Alaska in 2 Minutes and 31 Seconds
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=F0Gr4AptZv8

Resisting The Evil That Dwells Within

http://simplifythepositive.blogspot.com/2008/09...

I'm not particularly religious, nor am I a particularly sympathetic person. but something about this breach of the Palin email account just strikes me at my core as WRONG.

Even though everybody from the mail clerk on up in the biz world knows that company biz, especially if its confidential, or regulated by the Privacy Act like we are in the mortgage biz, goes through the company network.

Quickest way to a lawsuit in my biz is to have someone's social security number intercepted.

I think the entire thing is a trap.

I don't believe it for a second.

I don't know if I believe the "break in" is legit. I know how devious the Repubs are. If they would defraud citizens of their votes..what wouldn't they do. In addition, if Palin was worried about being investigated, wouldn't she delete sensitive email from her personal account?

What the whole thing shows is that she's dumb. How could you use a webmail account to conduct city business? It doesn't look like even a private home account...it's freaking webmail. How stupid can she be to copy her husband on "confidential" email using the city account? It sloppy and unprofessional.

This is the person they want to trust with nuclear codes and intelligence reports!!!!????

What pisses me off is seeing the Repubs and wealthy GOP supporters on TV, patting her on the head and saying....oh, isn't she cute. They put Obama through a virtual meatgrinder; yet, they won't tell the truth about this woman!

Ben Stein is having a meltdown...he says he has a Holocaust survivor friend who just lost a chunk of his life savings. He says he's terrified at McCain's response to this crisis. I guess this is what it takes for these people...to have their MONEY threatened.

Hypocrites! Racists! Liars!

It is so ghetto and unprofessional for Palin to include her husband in official business. Why can't he get his own freaking job? Everything about them is so Jerry Springer-esque.

To: 1stDude2U@yahoo.com
From: SarahHottVP08@yahoo.com
Re: Nucular Kodes

Honey, I forgot the nucular code. Can U Tell me what they R?


To: SarahHottVP2008@yahoo.com
From: 1stDude2U@yahoo.com
Re: Nucular Kodes

The password is "TrojanXL." Nobody will think we would use this.


To: SarahHottVP2008@yahoo.com
From: MissBud4EVAH@hotmail.com
Re: BITCH STAY AWAY FROM MY MAN

BITCH I C U! STAY AWAY FROM MY MAN OR I WILL KICK U'R @$$!!



To: KARL_ROVE@karlrove.com
FROM; SarahHottVP2008@yahoo.com
RE: Cindy

Karl, Cindy is accusing me of tryign to take John away from her. This is the FIFTH email I've gotten from her to day. I am getting really kind of tired of this. Please advise.


TO: SarahHottVP2008@yahoo.com
FROM: KARL_ROVE@karlrove.com
RE: RE: CINDY

Sarah, don't worry about it. We'll leak Cindy's e-mails but we'll doctor it so that it looks like it's from Hillary Clinton. Cindy won't be able to say anything about it unless she wants to out herself as sending these emails. I have a contact at the GLOBE tabloid, and we'll claim that Hillary and Obama had an affair, Michelle found out about it and put a stop to it and the reason Hillary's so mad is because she's obsessed with the Mandigo loving of Obama and was denied the chance to be near him by not being chosen VP. Bill also found out about it and this is the real reason why he's so upset at Obama. Now I'm going on Hannity tonight and I will "bring this up" casually and suggest that the Democrats like playing these high school gossip games, while you and John are trying to lead the country to recovery. This sound good to you? At any rate, you won't have to worry about John and Cindy anymore after Jan. 20, they'll no longer be a problem.


TO: KARL_ROVE@karlrove.com
FROM: SarahHottVP2008@yahoo.com
RE: RE: RE: Cindy

Sounds like a plan!

LMAO! That was good!

LOL~!

Are you like a writer? LMAO this is Comedy Central GOLD!!!!!

The Bush administration was doing the same thing to avoid accountability -- remember how Gonzalez was using webmail accounts in the runup to the attorney firings?

Corruption is corruption, whether it's bits or cash you're dealing through the gray market.

Hypocrites! Racists! Liars!"--That, my friend, sums up what we're up against.

here's your damned foreign policy:

Bizarre McCain Remarks Appear To Reject Spain Prime Minister As Ally
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/18/bizarr...

Real Clear Politics latest Polling results:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/la...

The reality of White Privilege

We've got to get a hold of the McCain town hall footage from yesterday. CNN reported that a Hillary supporter asked a question that went something like this: Freedom for women begins with economic justice...give some examples of ways you've fought for economic justice for women.

Now, it seemed to me she directed her question to McCain, though I could be wrong. But Palin jumped in and said she'd take that question.(so I guess I was right)....she started out by saying something like: Well as you all know, I'm a product of "title 9" in the school system that brought me to the position I'm at today...then John interrupted and said something about her being on the basketball team.

My point is, I think it was pure bullshitting...she didn't offer a single example of working for women. In fact....What exactly is "title 9"? Here's what Wiki says about Title 9:

Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972, now known as the Patsy T. Mink Equal Opportunity in Education Act in honor of its principal author, but more commonly known simply as Title IX, is a United States law enacted on June 23, 1972 that states: "No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance."[1] Although the most prominent "public face" of Title IX is its impact on high school and collegiate athletics, the original statute made no reference to athletics.[2]

Here's the kicker!.....title 9's original author was Rep. Patsy Mink..A fucking Democrat!

Here's what Wiki says about Mink:

Patsy Matsu Takemoto Mink (Japanese: パッツィー・T・ミンク; December 6, 1927–September 28, 2002) was an American politician from the U.S. state of Hawaiʻi. Mink was a Japanese American and member of the Democratic Party; she also was the Assistant Secretary of State for Oceans and International Environmental and Scientific Affairs. Mink served in the U.S. House of Representatives for a total of 12 terms, representing Hawaiʻi's second congressional district. While in Congress she was noted for authoring the Title IX Amendment of the Higher Education Act.

Palin stepped in front of McCain to answer the question, but could not offer a single example of working for women!!!!

She's ambitious, and proud...and maybe a little arrogant. She could have let McCain handle the question..but she stepped over THE TOP OF THE TICKET to answer! And when she did answer, she had nothing! Palin is a loose cannon, and is not inclined to follow "chain of command".

Joe always defers to Barack when they appear together - careful not to undermine him. Palin doesn't seem to understand, or care for these "rules".

It makes perfect sense with her reported habit of getting rid of anyone who didn't agree with her. She may not know how to play nice.

I need to see the footage to verify what she said after the end of the clip I saw. Did anyone see it? If so, did she provide any concrete evidence of working for women?

Here it says the attendees were "pre-ticketed". Despite this, her answers were terrible! I saw only a short clip on YouTube of the town hall..haven't found the whole thing yet:
McCain Campaign "Packs The House" At Palin Town Hall
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/17/mccain...

Perhaps the conspiracy theorists are correct: Palin is the REAL Republican Presidential candidate?

It is as clear as the writing on the wall.

Yes, and by the time McCain figures this out and tries to push back it will be too late. Cindy has already subconciously figured out what time it is and she's pushing back by wearing flashier clothes. She got pushed out of her alpha female spot of the McCain campaign by Sarah.

Sarah Palin is a willing and happy pawn of the Neo-cons. She is more than willing to be a figurehead and puppet of the Dick Cheney crowd in exchange for the ultimate pageant title, POTUS. If McCain Palin is elected, McCain will be the new William Henry Harrison.

I think more and more Republicans are catching on to the fact that they have been played by the Dick Cheney/James Dobson faction of the Republican party. The question is, will they vote their conscience and vote against McCain / Palin or will they be good little troopers and vote for them?

McCain is going to get tired of Palin upstaging him. As that HuffPost blog said yesterday, McCain is used to hierarchies, being a product of the Navy. A mere seaman would not jump all out in front of his commanding officer and steal the show, and that's all Palin is, a seaman. He's going to seek to shut her down but I think it's already too late. The toothpaste is out of the tube and not going back in.

Cindy is also going to get tired of Palin jumping the line. I saw her with her plunging neckline and hair all flowing yesterday. Cindy, you don't fool me. You went from looking like a demure 1950s housewife before Palin to looking like a 1980s soap opera vixen after Palin.

I wonder at what point it's going to sink in for McCain that he made a big, big mistake picking Sarah Palin?

"Plunging neckline and hair all flowing"

LOL!!

That was telling.

Sarah knows Cindy's an addict.

Cindy knows she knows.

This could blow up.

LOL! She has gone from the 1950s full circle skirts and matching cardigans to looking like she is straight out of DYNASTY! Cindy is fooling NO ONE!

It's called - Deference!

Someone reported on it at CBS news:
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/17/politic...

Earlier at the town hall meeting, a woman rose to speak and said was a Democrat who previously supported Hillary Clinton but now backed the Republican ticket.

“Give us some details and examples of your strategies and plan for economic empowerment for women,” she said.

McCain signaled for Palin to answer the question.

“Well first let me take a shot at that, and I’ll tell ya, I’m a product of Title IX in our schools, where equal education and equal opportunities in sports really helped propel me into the—I guess into the position that I’m in today where,” Palin said.

McCain then interjected, “Could I mention she was a point guard on a state championship basketball team.”

After the crowd’s applause died down, Palin continued: “Sports were very, very important to me growing up, you know just learning about self discipline and healthy competition and about what it takes to win and even how to graciously lose sometimes. But how to win, that’s what it teaches ya. Now, I was a product of Title IX where legislation allowed that equal opportunity. Now if we have to still keep going down that road to create more legislation, to get with it in the 21st century, to make sure that women do have equality especially in the work place, then we’re there because we understand that in this age we have all got to be working together. I respect you so much that you are a Democrat recognizing that John McCain and me as a team of mavericks understand where you’re coming from, and we can work together on these issues. But yup, equality for women, for all, that’s going to be part of the agenda and I thank you for that question.”

McCain then added that equal education for all would be a priority of his administration, including the ability for lower-income female students to attend charter schools and to use school vouchers. He said that he would make an effort to hire women in his administration and to take people to court if they were found to be discriminating.

Am I in the twilight zone? Look at Sarah's answer!! Even worse, look at McCain's addition in the last paragraph!!!

He says his contribution to women's issues will be equal education for all. I wasn't aware there was discrimination against poor female students in kindergarten to high school? is he crazy, or am I???

Who is challenging them on this???

My god, CNN reported on this and not a single person commented on the absurdity of the answers!!

They are frauds. Both of them. The corporate media is promoting their fraudulence and absurdity as seriousness.

If our media actually did it's job, these fools wouldn't have a chance running against Martians.

They've turned on McCain with a vengeance in the last 2 weeks. But, it took McCain insulting them to make that happen. The prospect of their waning influence did not sit well. Can you imagine a candidate saying essentially: screw you, we're not talking to you?

I guess I want more of a vengeance against the absurdity of them.

How can anyone take them seriously?

But did you see the looks on their faces? This shit is unbelievable. Does this woman honestly think she could be the POTUS.

Title IX helped her to where she is, but it didn't help her in stringing together a coherent sentence. WTF.

hmmm. thanks, msmartin. ya got me thinking. now where have we heard such eloquence as she has displayed? ahhh yes. our old friend Oswald Bates: http://www.hulu.com/watch/5029/in-living-color-...

enjoy your vperipheral visionification of the highest expectorations.

She looked nervous and out of her depth. Did you see her hand movements? She could barely keep her hands still.

She is undeniably out of her depth and she's about to find out that the nation does not go the way of Alaska.

See how the Repubs are railing against "big government" ..yet, everybody's saying a prayer of thanks that "big government" was able to bail out AIG. I'm happy and sorry for Obama at the same time. He has to come in and clean up this shit. See how tight the race looks now - look at all the states that are still red despite what Bush and the Repubs have done for the last 8 years. You know Barack is going to set the country on the right track toward prosperity...as soon as they start putting a little more money in their pockets - they'll go right back to voting greed and prejudice, to hold onto the 2 pennies. 1 step forward, 10 steps back.

I hope the grassroots network will change things this time, though. Maybe if Barack can teach ordinary people to have a voice, the millions who don't vote, might be inspired to. Then, maybe it won't be 10 steps back for you guys. Then you guys won't spend the next 50 years defending a woman's right to choose, but move on to other things - the wedge issues won't have that power anymore.

I think health care is the most revolutionary thing you will accomplish. The amount of productive energy tied up in worry and strife over health will be released. After the reverse of the negative momentum, your society will flourish in ways you might not even imagine.

It is so liberating to walk into any clinic without so much as a dime in your wallet, and see a doctor for whatever ails you. I've been referred to specialists, had scans, x-rays, tests, stayed in the hospital and never paid a single dime from my pocket. I can't imagine the fear of a parent without health care. It would have been great if Barack's plan was a true single payer Health....but, baby steps.

Truth as much as I trust Barack to lead, I don't know if I would want the lousy job that is ahead of him or if I would have the strentgh to fight so hard for it (I guess that's what makes him a leader).

I don't think the polls are as close as they are reported and I seriously believe pollsters are surveying a presumed and not likely group of voters.

I have to be truthful and say that I hadn't given much thought to healthcare because I have it all of my adult working life and have been fairly healthy. However, with my mother aging and retired (because of her condition) we are now facing some expenses that have put the issue square in my face. Also my father died from prostrate cancer at 53, I believe it was treatable disease and I wonder what type of care he would have gotten were he not black and if he weren't using social security disabiliy and va benefits? Nevertheless, I imagine with job loss, underemployment and the sheer numbers of the underinsured, any attention paid to this issue or legislation applied to it will make a difference in the lives of many.

One of my biggest hopes though is for justice. That someone will be done about the civil injustices in this country. One being the judicial system that makes life very difficult for little black boys who have made mistakes and pay for them with the quality of their whole life. This lends to the overall perception of the men and the community as a whole and fosters disrespect, neglect and in worst cases, ill will.

I would also like for America to be held to its own standards of patriotism when it comes to loving this country enough to care for all it citizens in a way that shipping 50,000 jobs overseas for the benefit of a few would be seen as unpatriotic.

What the heck does Title IX have to do with economic empowerment for women??? My goodness, America! Wake up!! These two are nothing but buffoons!

Sepia: ABSOLUTELY!! :>)

TruthSeeker: No comment on the . . absurdity of the answers!

Maybe: 1. They made sense to the lady questioner!?
2. They had to take the lady out on a stretcher because she was so confused by the NON-answers!
3. Maybe they just were trying to be RESPECTFUL to the "almost-queen!" and they didn't want to expose her stupidity!.

O.K. I am ready to call for an "expert opinion!" IMHO neurons are not connecting! It's almost like a processing disorder based on a receptive deficiency! But, as long as she moves her lips [lipsticked or not], she actually believes that she HAS given "THE" answer! And so does "McAncient"!

This is very serious!

I was going to play with PAGEANT-SPEAK, such as. . . . , BUT, this is BEYOND that! I'm sure that there is an educator/psychologist who can give some insight by reading their statements, which are purporting to pass for "THE ANSWER"!!


Anyone out there?

I think all our brains would get some rest if Palin just stuck to her equivalent of "world peace" i.e. just answer every question with "Islamic extremist terrorism."
Q: What are you going to do about the economic crisis?
A: Islamic Extremist Terrorism
Q: Health care?
A: Islamic Extremist Terrorism
Q: Russia invading Uzbekistan?
A: Islamic Extremist Terrorism
Q Increasing teenage pregnancies in the country?
A: Islamic Extremist Terrorism

It works for Bush, worked for her in the ABC interview so just stick with it. Save me the headache of having to wade through your nonsensical words!

goc: Hey!! :>) Co-signing! Those were my thoughts after the Charles Gibson "interview"???? :>)

LOL!

RIKYRAH and ALL-JJP: Whew!! One crisis down!! Thank you very much for your thoughts/prayers!!



To the graphic: A picture is truly worth - all the WORDS needed to describe it!!!

In this case, the WORDS are: Shrub/"McAncient's" ECONOMIC PLAN!!! :>)

Well, it sounds like everything's ok. Good.

TruthSeeker: Thank you. However, I cannot tell you what critical shape he is in!! I've never seen a more battered body. But we keep the thought/prayers going! So, again, thank you

GreenLady,

Never give up hope. It is all we have. Without it, we have nothing. I will continue to pray. Be strong & stand on God's word!

Justice58: Be strong & stand on God's Word! Amen!

This is what I do!! Your encouragement is sooo much appreciated! :>)

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope he pulls through.

As do I.

Admiral: Thank you very much!

TruthSeeker: Thank you. That's our hope too.

Oh! Thank you for finding the Chris Matthews' VIDEO!! :>) :>)

GREAT [and FAST] WORK!!! :>) U R A "Wonder Woman!! :>)

I deleted the DUPLICATE.

Ha! Cris is the bomb with that graphic....reminded me of when Carville held up that picture of the Wasilla Office Palin worked out of.

Oh TS,

you made me LMAO. I still chuckle thinking of Carville pulling that picture out.