Jack & Jill Politics

If Obama is going to win this election he better toughen up ! Mc Cain was like an old man schooling a young man in how to deal with running a country. Obama has the advantage with what is going on in our country, he must get tougher!

Honestly y'all now come on. Nobody saw what I saw last night? Well, here is my opinion. Senator Obama did a LESS THAN EXPECTED job last night. I am a bit concerned that John kept him on the defensive a bit too much. John kept Senator Obama on "the rope" of the wrestling ring pretty much the whole debate. Senator Obama has got to deliver blows to John so we can win this election. Senator Obama needed to control the debate; own the debate and that just didn't happen. If Senator Obama keeps looking weak and not performing, we will lose this election; and it should NOT be because of lack of performance, that's just not acceptable. He has to hit back hard. He needs to come with a TKO. Don't allow John to control the debate. Senator Obama can't just be good, he knows that he has to be "better than". We have come too far with this struggle for him to loose in this "war of words". He has gotta get himself together or we will not be able to use our prepared excuse if he loses: "Y'all didn't vote/elect a qualified man because he is a black man." We may just have to concede that his lack of experience and inability to deliver a blow will be the reasons that he couldn't get enough 'well meaning heartland votes.'

George Bush was less than average; Sarah Palin is less than average and both got trounced. We expect leadership in this country to be "above average and exceptional" and Obama has those qualities. He has to show them; he has gotta REPRESENT. Can't be 'scuured.' The Obama team needs to do more role playing with him to toughen him up. Cut that stump speech out and speak to us with passion. Don't always look down and quit all that damn "agreeing with John". You woulda thought he would have taken time away from the campaign trail and really prepared for a knock out. Somebody in the campaign has to get him prepared. WE NEED SENATOR OBAMA TO SURVIVE AND 'REPRESENT' WELL SO WE CAN GET ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

Our country is overwhelmingly white. We only make up 12% and Hispanics 15% (they will sit this election out rather than vote for a black man, that’s an unacceptable given). So, basically this is a white race with blacks that may be able to make the difference in an election that is overwhelmingly white. My point is this, Iowa got this ball rolling and convinced this country and especially African Americans that Senator Obama "could" be President because of his qualifications, capabilities and potential. They, "Iowa" (representing all white people) always expects him to perform exceptionally through all components of this election. He is black and knows that he has to be "better than." Last night, it was as though he just got up from his seat and went out to the debate to "wing it." There appeared to be NO pre preparation. I expect him to do "better than" in the next two debates-he has to, because John is skilled at debate, knows how to put Senator Obama on the defensive, and most importantly last night proved that his “age thing” is NOT a factor. The age game was taken off the table last night (barring an illness). Senator Obama now has to prepare. Senator Obama is smart, he cut his "debate teeth" with Hillary and learned a lot from her. I think he was taken by surprise by John as most of us were. Senator Obama allowed himself to loose his cool and decided he needed to defend himself against John’s lies instead of seizing control of the dialogue and controlling what he wanted to discuss. He has GOT to prepare. Needs to pay an ultra conservative Regan democrat, heartland democrat, right winged Republican as a sparing partner and practice the art of debate nightly for the next two weeks. Senator Obama missed two many opportunities to seal the election deal last night. John was better last night than he ever was in the Republican debates so he surprised everyone. Senator Obama can do this, he can do this, he has to seal this deal. If not, all of those fireworks at the acceptance speech in Colorado were for naught. And I can take off all of my Obama Family screensavers and go back to just “coping without hoping” in America. The debates should be the least part of this struggle. Success does come when knowledge and preparation meet and he did not have the preparation last night which is unacceptable and I could kick his red-boned butt for that this morning. Back to my point again, white people in American elect Presidents and for a black man to get this far into consideration to be elected you have to be “exceptional.” Up to this point, all has gone well. He is a quick study and I am sure this morning "Michelle and his circle" will be giving him some good advice about preparation. I trust so.

What will happen if Senator Obama wins by a million votes in the General Election and loses the racist, heartland, outdated Electoral College? Will we have to again go before the racist Supreme Court so that another President gets anointed into office in lieu of being elected to this highest office? He has to win the debates first for that to happen so there won't be any questions, none what so ever if and when he have to do a “Jena-styled protest” on the Electoral College; a “dream-deferred rally” on the Washington Mall. But he has got to win the debates in an exceptional manner, he cannot afford to screw up now, we are too close for him not to be prepared, not to nail this thing down. This Obama Momma is disappointed and there is no excuse for his performance; we have to win this election to help this country. I wanted to go thru the TV and slap him for allowing John to put him on the defensive. Okay, stop it Myth.

Someone mentioned on this thread that Obama and McCaint have two more debates.

Obama is like a marathon runner - you don't blow your wad in one go - you pace yourself.

McCaint blew his wad at the debate last night. Expect him to get progressively worse. His condescending tone towards Obama pissed off the group he needs to win: WOMEN AND THE UNDECIDED/FENCE-SITTERS. The polls show McCain pissed them off with his delivery last night, not to mention his refusal to even look at Obama - a sure sign of disrespect if ever there was one.

We got two more to go. Start panicking if you don't see Obama reach and swing by the end of the second debate. He did as well as could be expected, considering Jim Lehrer gave McCain a whole lot of rope and time to hang himself.

CPL:
Obama did not do as well as could be expected, Lehrer be damned. I am vested in Obama and he did not "bring it home last night and seal the deal." John had him against the rope and rattled Obama. The debate will be repeated tonight and this viewing will give all and opportunity to do an true debate tactic analysis of the Obama. I am not so concerned about "McCaint" as I am about Obama's performance. Look again at the debate analytically. John is strong in his debate skills. Once he saw that he could rattle Obama with "little white lies" John continued to use the strategy and it worked. Obama spent all of his allocated time defending John's accusations and McCain saw that it worked and continued the strategy. When it was John's time to talk he changed the dialogue to what he wanted it to be, hardly responding, acknowledging Obama's presence. John controlled the debate, and the dialogue until the last half when Obama gained a little strength and came back with one or two punches. But the reason that I say, that Obama did not do as well as he could is because Obama is a smart man. He has had 2 years off training on how to be President on the campaign trail and has learned all that he knows from all that have run. He is prepared to be President because he has learned from the best of the best candidates running for President. One month out, with the greatest depression ever looming, Obama should have sealed the deal last night. He did not. Only because he did not prepare. While John thru him off . having him think he would not show up, John was gettting prepared all of the time. Obama should have anticipated as much from him--John desparately wants to win and we all know that deparate people do desparate things. Over the next month, Obama has to be exceptional because I am vested in him for my future well being in this country. There is no room to be defensive, to not show leadership and/or to be rattled by John. John knows Obama's weak spot now and he will play on it in the next debate. We can win this race with preparation. IJohn may beat Obama, but LOOSING within grasp of the Presidency is not an option at this point for me, again I am vested. I have envsioned and plans to get my flu shot and pneumonia vaccine so that I can camp out at the US Capitol, in the DC cold, on Jan 19 and Obama better take his spot on Jan 20 because my only reason for going is to see the one and only African America in my lifetime to take the oath of office for the presidency of the United States..

God has prepared the way for Obama. It is OUR time. He can't mess that up for me with bad choices. He needs to be knowledgeable, prepared and exceed expectations. Yes, we have two more shots at the debates. Obama needs to seal the deal, at the very next one, not come in as a "tie" with John.

And finally Johh, on Jan 20, 2009 you can call me "Barack" or "Mr. President." You pick your poison John.

I think Obama won the debate.
Obama showed his depth of knowledge in foreign policy.
He slammed McCain when McCain went on his "He'll raise your taxes" riff.
He also hit McCain on the Iraq war.
Two more debates to go.

I couldn't bother to read this book you wrote because your introductory paragraph is off. The polls reflect something entirely different than what you've suggested. Nevermind, I can't even be bothered with responding to this.

I feel you MsMartin, I do really. I am not trying to be unjustly critical of Obama's performance at the debate. I am rattled and want him to do better because YES HE CAN. If I were polled as the economy were falling I would commit to Obama for sure. and proudly proclaim that he won the debate. The media and most of the country realize now that Obama is our greatest hope and all were on board to spin the results for Obama. That has nothing to do with Obama's performance at the debate though. I am posting, something I haven't done before , because I want desperately for Obama to win and his performance last night was a dealbreaker in my investmen. I am objective too, not just saying that he did a good job to influence voters but sending objective signals so he can better himself. I want someone to send him my message that success comes thru knowledge and preparation. He has to be heavy on the preparation. He has overcome too much to not peform at his best. I am vested in him and he has to perform exceptionally. It is one thing to get beat by John but it's another for Obama to loose and that is not an option at this point in OUR journey. MsMartin, he has two more shots and I have the greatest confidence that he will seal the deal.

What msmartin said.

I don't think McCain is really listening to Petraeus...

John McCain made such a point last night that we don't get out of Iraq without "victory" and said that Obama would know that had he been listening to General Petraeus. McCain repeatedly made Petraeus the clear definer of our military activities in Iraq.

It never was brought up, however, that this very month, in an interview with the BBC as he was changing his assignments in the Middle East, Petraeus stated that he will "Never declare victory" in Iraq. He further stated that "this is not the sort of struggle where you take a hill, plant the flag and go home to a victory parade..."

To hear it in Petraeus' own voice go here. To read his words and review the whole interview go to "No victory in Iraq, says Petraeus."

Under The LobsterScope

Now I'm scared.

They've increased in desperation by a factor of 10....

What the hell kind of stunt is the McCain campaign going to pull now??!!

Why are you scared - what happened?

They pulled the "suspension" stunt....and it backfired.

They didn't win the debate.

McCain is still behind....what are they going to do next?? They're even further behind than they were last week. They're having a money crunch. They're crazy and desperate. Did you see that ad they put out...where O is saying he agrees? A sane campaign doesn't put out an ad like that.

Whatever stunt it is....I bet you 10 to 1 that it will be something that directly effects a battleground state moreso than any other.

I dunno....but I do know it's coming. I hope the O campaign is ready.

CPL: As I kept watching Pat Buchanan - my IRE just kept flaring up! He IS SUCH A RACIST!! YUK!!!


Obama-Biden '08!!

Ok so it took me some time to get back home. JJP- didn't realize I need you folks so much right now!

I believe Obama won in the sense that he came off tougher and clearer and defaulted to less nuance than usual. Towards the end he tried to explain himself more fully- but that was because McCain was misinterpreting. I'm so glad he called him out as many times as he did.

McCain's posturing looked like he was going to lose it. I saw him getting HOT when Obama hit him with a few jabs like him "making up songs like bomb bomb Iran."

The ONLY thing I wish Obama did not do as much was tell McCain "I agree" and "you're right" so much. One or two times, okay you're being nice, more than that and you're giving away the store. Too much of that nice guy stuff. I saw a glimmer of ATTACK in him. Next time, I'm certain he wil be confident...

OH! Why I thought he won the debate? I believe Obama proved he has detailed knowledge about the war/s, the region, the weapon, the budget associated with it etc. For those people who have this as their number one issue, he came off as COMPETENT and KNOWLEDGEABLE. The one thing he didn't come off as- willing to pull the trigger. Which for me is a plus, but to others not so much.

I don't know why folks are talking about knock out punches and like you said pulling the trigger. Folks seem to forget they have to do 2 more of these things. The knock not should be reserved for the final debate.

Obama is a athlete he knows you don't give up the goose in the first quarter! But again, the loser of this debate: Sarah Palin.

Here's what I'm thinking: this was supposed to be the HARD part. Yes, there is a whole lot of test left, but this was supposed to be the slam dunk for McCain. And at the end of the night, MSM is calling this one for Obama.

As a supporter, I needed Obama to have a stronger showing than McCain and that happened. Don't hate on me because I'm pleased. This needed to happen and it did.

Jay I'm thinking the same thing. He did exteremely well considering that McCain is supposed to be the foreign policy "expert". What Obama did was show that he has complete understanding of the situation. He gave nothing away by stating the supposed expert was right he merely showed his understanding was enough to know when McCain was right, but he didn't hesitate to state with emphasis when he was wrong; you are absolutely right; you were wrong about that; John you were wrong.

I'm okay with it. These debates give Obama a chance to tell his side of the story and a story must be presented in parts - he is not finished.

evita: COMPETENT and KNOWLEDGEABLE! ABSOLUTELY!!

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a WINNER!

ENOUGH!! :>)

Obama-Biden '08!!

I had to cut and run halfway through to get to an event, but I noticed one thing: more often than not, the yellow Independent line tracked the blue Democratic line, rather than the red one. Rarely did the yellow line stray out from between the two, which is to be expected, but when Obama was speaking, the yellow almost always went with the blue, while when McCain was speaking, half the time it also went down with the blue.

In other words, this year the independents are thinking like Democrats.

At least, for the very small sample of Ohio voters that CNN used.

found another moniker for McCain's Choice: (at balloon juice)

Bible Spice

That's pretty good, because just like most of the Spice Girls, she's supposed to be all "hot," but when you really look at her... she's not.

(Seriously, what is up with the idea that she's a babe? She's a fairly average white woman who's remarkably in shape for someone with so many babies. Folks need to get out more if this woman is turning them on. Just not out to the voting booth).

I'd call it a draw.

Although, McCain's "Obama just doesn't understand" charges did annoy me, and I wanted Obama to respond directly to them. It was condescending, and I think we all felt it. In fact, I think McCain was quite condescending throughout much of the debate, and Obama just didn't do very much to counter him, which might be to his detriment.

I also don't think McCain looked at Obama, or even in his direction for the entire 90 minutes, while Obama addressed him directly quite often.

Lastly, I couldn't help but wonder how others across the country (especially in those proverbial swing states) were taking it all in. We saw a black man and a white man, opponents in what amounts to an intellectual competition, on screen, as opposed to a basketball court, or football field (zones where we, black people, have come to be accepted). I wondered if their words ultimately meant nothing, as viewers where quick to identify with either candidate in the most superficial of ways - skin color. As we all already know, race will indeed play a factor in this election.

All that being said, it's all entertaining theatrics and not very much more!

When Barack said McCain wouldn't meet with the president of Spain, McCain said "horseshit."

He said it twice...whispered first, then said louder. I guess he wanted to be sure the mike picked it up.

He better get a hold of himself before he does something he can't take back.

that one's gonna get some funny mileage and parsing... http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/27/1216/62...

May be it was just me, but I tried to follow McCain's logic about the situation between North and South Korea when all of the sudden he broke into some diatribe about the S. Koreans are 3 inches taller than the northern as part of the reponse. I am not the most politically savvy person, but I need TIVO to run that back for me.

Yep....I think he meant malnutrition. But without elaborating..it sounded weird, and what does it have to do with anything.

Chris Matthews has a long running grudge against BHO for not having enough "emotion" and not having enough "fire in the belly". Just BS from the mouth of white pundits who judge EVERYTHING from the prism of working class Irish city upbrining. It is a part of the media theme that to be popular, you have to appeal to them and not the electorate.

Chris Matthews is a jackass

CM needs to realize that this country hasn't come far enough where a black man can express "emotion" or "fire in the belly" when running against a white man for POTUS. He should know that since he's always talking about white people not wanting to vote for Obama because he's black!

Personally, I saw fire in his belly. Obama was well versed in foreign policy, even though the pundits said that this was McCain's territory. His answers were consise and well thought out to the point that he has shown that this is his territory as well.

Marius: Hey! :>) MAJOR CO-SIGN!!! :>)

Obama-Biden '08!!

I saw fire tonight.

You haven't seen anything yet - wait for the final debate.

I was wondering if you did.

So did I.

hee hee...

It was great! He needs to modulate the intensity though, but he's learning.

McCain is toast.

Senator McCain has shown his true racist color by showing total disrepect. He portrayed Sen. Obama as being inferior and not worthy of the job of President of the United States. Sen. McCain will realize that he has lost votes

I'm glad the pundits kept talking about McCain refusing to look Obama in the eye. I didn't think they would. Not looking O in the eye made him look sneaky, suspicious and WEAK. To be honest, I think McCain was trying to appeal to white voters by not looking him in the eye. A sort of "I Don't Have To Look That Black Man In The Face Because He's Not On My Level" type of vibe. It backfired.

Independent2008: . . . lost votes. . Let's HOPE so!! :>)

Obama-Biden'08!!

The pundits' reaction is not hard to understand. I happen to think that it was a draw but the press can't understand the polls because they have too big a stake in the game. They need this thing to be a horserace because the modern reporter/pundit is much more interested in influencing the race than covering it. If the contest is a draw then their role becomes paramount.

Barack is seen as "winning" because he did what was needed. Convince the viewer that he understood the issues. That he differed from McSneer in temperament and opinion is to be expected....but the pols reflect people's gut reaction that BHO knows what is going on. The polls are easy to understand but so is the perspective of the MSM. Another debate like this an MsSneer is toast...

Agreed, and because the MSM's efforts to shape this election have failed (time and time again) expect them to step up their efforts to control the outcome. It will become more and more ridiciulous.

I'm going to have a hear attack! What fuckin' debate was Chris Matthew and the rest of the MSNBC talking heads watching tonight? He, Nora O'Donnell and that pompous ass hole, Howard Finemen think that McCain beat Obama on the economy! WTF! Chris Matthew keeps harping about Obama not relating to the middle class when Obama repeatedly talked about policies that will benefit the lower and middle class. McCain didn't mention the middle class one fuckin' time, but somehow the onus is on Obama. These mother fuckers will not give Obama credit for anything!

NMP: HATIN' is such an ugly thing!! 'cause that's what was goin' on!!

MR. OBAMA CLEARLY WON!! :>)

Obama-Biden '08!!

hahah!

MSNBC is pissed 'cause the O campaign sent out a text saying to watch the debate on CNN!!

LOL

NMP,

unreal, isn't it?

I think MSNBC is a little upset that the text message that the Obama sent in regard to the debate, said the watch it on CNN. However, there was another text message that was sent out saying to watch it on "any" major network. After the Huffpo write up asking why did the campaign single out CNN.

Just sayin'

Texas Girl,

I got both texts and the first was to watch the debate on CNN! Just maybe MSNBC is having a little sour grapes! Oh well....they'll get over it!

Dang, I just typed the same thing, then saw yours..

I wasn't aware of the second text though.

Yeah. I got the second text and cracked up. Because they were probably thinking..awww hell, send another text damn!

I got both those texts too and now I'm wondering why the first one said watch on CNN.

That's why I turned off the TV when the debates was over. The pundits are in their own little world so anything they say I take with a grain of salt. Judging from the the post-debate polls I've been seeing I'm not alone.

it is ridiculous. normally safe and reliable MSNBC being more critical than CNN tonight especially when the public has decided definitively

Every poll that has come out has Obama as the winner. Even Conservative Pricktoid Dick Morris ON FOXNEWS said "Unfortunately, I think Obama won this debate,"

CBS Poll Of Uncommitted Voters:
Obama 40%
Draw 38%
McCain 22%

MediaCurves focus group of Independants:
Obama 61
McCain 39






:

..And that's who O needed to convince..the independents..and undecided.

ultramagnetic: Hey! :>) These DATA/STATISTICS SPEAK!!

Regarding the "body language, etc.", "whycome" Dr. Rachel CLEARLY read it!?

Grumpy old [white-gene] couldn't look him in the eye, man vs poised, relaxed, responsive, looked him in the eye Black PRESIDENT.

It is obvious that "McAncient" hates Mr. Obama! Annnnd, all that hate increases his "grumpy old man look and affect!!

FIRED UP! READY TO GO!!!

Obama-Biden '08!!

I don't mean this in a starstruck, goofy, teen magazine kind of way, but I just love Barack and Michelle Obama. Their intelligence and kindness is evident in their eyes and the way they interact with people. Their love for one another is heart warming.

It would be magnificent to have such a fine couple in the White House. The idea of smart, capable, brilliant, thoughtful, steady, informed Barack Obama leading this country is one I love. I hope and pray and I believe that it will come true. I may not have to expatriate after all.

I love this man. I admire him. He is an outstanding human being and a remarkable candidate.

Won't it be heaven ~ HEAVEN!!! ~ to have someone so smart and thoughtful and capable in the White House? It's been too long and it's hard to even remember what it was like.

Yes. We. Can. And we will.

Starstruck = me!

It's ok.

Ta-Nehisi Coates has a post up now talking about how fabulous Michelle is.

This is my reply to him:

As a Black woman, Ta-Nehisi, I found nothing sexist about your remark.

When I dreamt of the First Black President, I always envisioned the first lady to you know, she would be one of those bi-racial curly haired women. Vanessa Williams, Beyonce, Hally Berry.

Never in my wildest dreams, or maybe only in my wildest dreams did I ever believe the first Black First Lady would be a SISTA.

A chocolate, no doubt about it, her ancestors were in the hull of those slave ships, SISTA. With the hips, and the behind, and Black women curves.

I pass the paperbag test with flying colors (natural curly hair to boot). But, as a Black woman, sometimes I look at Michelle Obama and say, 'Amen'.

As The Black Snob has written:

Most Black women are RIDE OR DIE with Barack, not because of his politics, or even because he's a Democrat. It's because of Michelle and the WeeMichelles. We can look at Michelle and tell that she's a loved and respected woman, and our hearts swell, I tell ya. They just swell.

Did you ever think that the possible First Lady of the United States would be named Michelle LaVaughn Robinson from the South Side of Chicago?

No Jack and Jill. No debutante balls. None of that.

Yes, I love me some Michelle Obama. SHE is the reason I got involved with the campaign. I've never paid to see Barack Obama. I've paid three times to see Michelle.

Yeah, it's pretty amazing....and it seemed to just come from out of nowhere.

It's ok. They are a very loving couple and it's real.

BAB: Well, since we are in "CONFESSION MODE", I'm admitting that when Mr. Obam puts on those sun glasses [like the one's that you advise use to wear at the RNC Convention] I must needs go sit in front of my air conditioner until that "wave" passes!! LAWD HA'MERCY!!! :>) :>)

O.K. I'm through! :>)

Obama-Biden '08!!

I'm not so old that I haven't had a few "daaaaannggggg, he's hot!" moments myself. I've always been attracted to tall and slim, but strong, hard. Um . . . I mean muscles ;-) Yeeeoowww, yes he can.

BAB: I knew what you meant - Wellllllllllll- Maybe NOT!! :>) :>)

lol.....stop!

Admit it. You bought the poster from Ebony of him on the cover in his sunglasses..

Just.admit.it.

LOL

rikyrah: O.K!! O.K.!!! O.K.!! I ADMIT IT!!! Annnnd, my air conditioner better NOT go on the blink!! :>) :>)


Obama-Biden '08!!!

whew deep breaths, Greenladyhere!

JJai: LOL!! LOL!!! :>) :>) Thanks for your support!! :>)

Obama-Biden '08!!

I am starstuck over them. I will admit it.

We ALL Are!

MSNBC is hating tonight.; well on Hardball anyway. Which is ridiculous as they report that the viewers scored this as a win.

They keep expressing how they are confounded by the poll data.

Chris Matthews kept talking about how Obama didn't focus on the lunch bucket crowd, well he needs to take that up with Jim Lehrer and his questions. McCain didn't focus on the lunch bucket crowd, either. If you're going to call out Obama for not addressing lunch bucket issues, then call out McCain as well since one of these two guys is going to be elected President 6 weeks from now.

And why must Obama only address the lunch bucket crowd (which in reality ain't voting for him -- as they don't vote Democratic in presidential elections)? Why not the transit bus crowd? Don't they vote, too? How about the housekeeper and landscaper crowd? Don't they vote, too? How about the convenience store and beauty supply shop crowd? Don't they vote, too? To hear these commentators the only voters in America that matter are the Walmart moms and the Archie Bunker crew. And while I know that most voters in America are white, it's silly to expect one candidate to grovel to the lunch bucket voter and blast them for not addressing their needs while giving the other candidate a complete pass.

I never thought I'd say this, but:

Chris Matthews makes me miss Tim Russert. Why?

In all honesty, Russert would have called both of them out for not addressing the lunch bucket crowd.

And he came from said lunch bucket crowd more so than Tweety. Remember "Big Russ & Me"? anybody?

Town: RE Chris Matthews: I'm believin' that he is first generation out of his "lunch bucket family" to "make it". He just feels like he NOT use to living outside of that "small town" that he grew up in!! He makes too much reference to it!

IFFF I'm even near correct, this might explain his NEED to be "spoken to." Also, mind you, "lunch bucket: is CODE for THOSE WITH THE "WHITE GENE"! TRUST!!!

So, while he feigns excitement for Mr. Obama, at times, He can only go SO FAR, THEN that "WHITE GENE" thang kicks in! SAD BUT TRUE!!

Obama-Biden '08!!

Who carries a lunch bucket these days. You know everyone is having a Wendy's.


LOL

Tweety, Barnacle etc all get a bit misty at O Danny Boy and misremembering their youths.

I say this and I kind of like them, but the the regular life isn't necessarily Irish Catholic.

Lilytiger: Who carries a lunch bucket. . . LOL! :>) :>)

U R A nut!! :>) :>) Love ya!! :>) :>)

Obama-Biden '08!!

It seems like Tweety is obsessed with the lunch bucket/working class/white worker voter angle doesn't it? He's been harping on that since the primaries. I don't know what he's going on about, BO seems to be holding his own with that crowd. But then again I'm not a pundit, so what do I know?

Yes they are. I'm having trouble seeing their point of view.

I see it a bit differently. I think Chris wants Obama to win this so badly that he is worried that this lunch box crowd won't vote for Obama. I believe Chris believes Obama needs the lunchbox crowd in order to win definitively. After all, Chris was on a late night show asking the voters to open their hearts to Obama!

I don't know about that jelana. Especially after the Palin pick, Chris Matthews changed immediately and started knocking Obama/Michelle and portrayed them as "other".

I don't trust him.

hadn't thought of it in those terms

msmartin/JJai; U R seeing the evidence of HATIN'

Mr. Obama WON!! And they cain't SAY IT - 'cause they HATIN'!!!

Obama-Biden '08!!

I just don't understand. The woman was driving me crazy!

And BHO defended himself against the talk without preconditions thing. And who the hell cares if you sit down without preconditions? What matters is what you agree to and what you can verify in terms of what the other guy promises. Winston Churchill said it best.....jaw jaw is superior to war war.

Very interesting tonight.

I had a coworker who for 3 years refused to look at me. She actually walked sideways and wore sunglasses around me to avoid looking at me or directly facing me. When confronted, she would cut and run. Yet, when she had problems with white coworkers (she was white) she didn't do all of these antics. When questioned by management why she was doing all of these things, her answer was that I wasn't respectful enough and that before she would EVER talk to me again I need to apologize for being disrespectful.

That is what John McCain did to Barack Obama tonight.

McCain is clearly contemptuous of Obama. He doesn't feel that Obama shouldn't even be on the stage with him. He is galled and appalled that this uppity Negro has the NERVE to question him, to challenge him. Barack Obama is "disrespectul" towards John McCain. I guarantee you if McCain were debating Hillary, or if Joe Biden were the nominee or John Edwards, McCain would not have done what he did tonight.

I fully expect the "Obama disrespectful to McCain" meme to flow out of the McCain camp for a few days. I expect McCain to be even more contemptous and dismissive of Obama. McCain is someone who feels he should get ultimate respect and Barack Obama challenging him, taking over meetings, telling him on national TV that he is wrong and generally not bowing down to him is going to harden McCain's feelings towards Obama. McCain feels justified in doing what he did tonight because he feels that Obama is a disrespectful, uppity nigga who needs to be put back in his place.

So watch for the McCain ads on Obama to get even more racist and nasty.

don't think so Town. They CAN'T SPIN MCCAIN'S ATTITUDE. We all watched the same thing.

They cannot spin it. Not This Time.

I fully expect the "Obama disrespectful to McCain" meme to flow out of the McCain camp for a few days.

It has. Pawlenty was on The Today Show complaining about how Obama kept interrupting McMagoo, and telling the moderator when he could ask the next question.

Town, I worked with white women who felt the same way. In San Francisco, of ALL places.

I would press them for evidence I'd been disrespectful. They could only come up with, "You always look me in the eye" bullshyt.

To which I'd respond "My parents taught me to look ANYONE directly in their eyes because it was a sign of respect, and honesty."

They couldn't look ME in the eye after that. It also helped that a congressman by the name of Ron Dellums, who I'd interned for, called them and asked them why they were giving me a hard time for just showing up to work.

They couldn't answer him, either.

Tell your co-worker that this isn't Jim Crow and you don't work on Uncle Ben's plantation, and if she doesn't like it, she'd better look for another job where she can be a bigot freely.

Though I don't know of too many workplaces that would tolerate her shyt before getting hit with a class-action discrimination suit for that madness. And the company would believe it's easier to replace her racist ass than to pay out money to more than a few employees of color.

Homegirl is gone, lol. They finally let her go because she tried to pull a McCain and refused to "multitask" aka do her damn job. I know for a fact that she's still unemployed after 3 years and that she's been telling prospective employers in job interviews that she was fired because a "horrible person" was "disrespectful" to her and the company sided with the horrible person instead of poor widdle her. (amazing what you overhear at the copy machine, lol).

She certainly is smart.
Nothing puts you at the top of the hiring list like dissing a previous employer.
Poor baby.

Town, it's not profitable to one's company to have a bigot on their payroll. Maybe if she stopped talking about you, she could get hired somewhere.

Prospective employers don't like it when you talk negative about the last place you worked. I'm not sure what it is, but it gives off something that, for them, doesn't pass the smell test.

LOL

Town: "Whycome" U R so correct on all points?! :>)

Especially: McCain feels justified in doing what he did tonight because he feels that Obama is a disrespectful, uppity nigga . . . .

There is NO DOUBT that this is true, EXCEPT in the minds of those with the "white gene! and a few N(o)BRA members!

Oh! I believe that you got a "reply" of this ilk!![John M] ARRRRRGGGGG!!!

O.K. I'm calm now!! :>) :>)

Obama-Biden '08!!!

ha ha ha ha ha this is Obama's poker mastery at its best

McCain is too easy to read. Obama is getting under his skin the Hillary got under Obama's.

McCain may be too seasoned to explode in a debate, but he's spending energy keeping himself in control. That's going to put him in a serious disadvantage moving forward.

Personally, I don't think it was about race so much as age/experience and the fact that John McCain is a tightly wound, angry egomaniac. Remember Mitt Romney?

You're right, the MSM meme is starting up that McCain thought he shouldn't be on the stage with him.

Probably.

But they will backfire.

What Barack did tonight was to nullify any future racist/nasty attack.

Why?

Because the man who was presidential, accommodating, incisive, and confident presented a picture of a man that need not be feared.

And the image, the stark brutal image, of McCain not even looking at Barack will make him seem, well, racist and nasty.

especially when he was willing to give him points if they agreed on certain things.

Agreed Craig.

From HuffingtonPost:

It was a small visual, but one that seemed to be getting traction among the punditry. Charlie Gibson on ABC and David Brooks on PBS both noted that McCain didn't look at Obama once.

McCain needs to be careful about even thinking about spreading the "Barack is disrespectful" meme because he was the one who was clearly being disrespectful tonight and it's caught on tape. That meme will backfire on him. But McCain and his camp are going to press it because it's all they got.

Why should he be careful about pushing the "Barack is disrespectful" meme?

I expect McCain to push it.

Why?

I think the press STILL likes McCain.

The media is not Obama's friend.

McCain wants to win...PERIOD.

McCain needs to "be careful" because he's not the master of subtlety. McCain's race baiting doesn't really work because he ain't slick about it, he just puts it out there and it backfires on him. That's why Rove said a couple of weeks ago that McCain's ads were "too nasty." He didn't mean they were "too nasty," he meant they were too obvious. White people don't like to be associated with obvious racists even if they feel the same.

I think hey were planning to spread that meme. According to Politico (I can't locate the article) one Bush insider suggested to use the word uppity to describe Obama.

Town,

did you see the post down below that I got from Andrew Sullivan, quoting James Fallows. Man was timing. He was like, it's 77 minutes into this debate, and McCain hasn't looked at Obama once.

Fallows was like, 'maybe I'm the only one who noticed this'.

Got news for Mr. Fallows. He wasn't the only one who noticed this.

We were sitting there watching McCain twitch, itch, shuffle, grip the podium tightly, grimace, clinch his jaw etc. while never once looking in Obama's direction, much less looking at Obama himself.

And you could tell when Obama was pissing him off, like when Obama mentioned Spain.

I can't wait to see the next 2 debates. I have a feeling McCain will skip out on the last one.

I doubt seriously Palin will show up to hers either because Biden destroyed McCain on what a strategy was vs. what a tactic was. I know Caribou Barbie turned the TV off and started calling Pastor Witchdoctor to put some roots on Biden.

the glaring difference of having Biden do post-debate commentary.

everyone was like, ' where's Caribou Barbie'? they knew the answer, but it was glaring, wasn't it?

Biden is everywhere and she's nowhere to be found.

Very good point: I wondered where she was, too.
McCain's spinmiesters were out there, but where the hell was Caribou Barbie?

She was hanging out in a Philly bar.

true, we need our very own disrespectul ad!

That will take some doing, but you're probably right: calling Obama disrespectful when it was that jaw-clenching old buzzard trying to talk all over him. Grow the fuck up. I wanted to smack him. I expect a lot of people are going to have that reaction. Nobody likes rude except for a select group of far right wing asshats who love Rush and others of his ilk. John McCain looked like a grumpy old ass and his constant facial tics and the jaw clenching made him look crazy.

Howard Fineman agrees with you

THIS ISSUE WITH KISSINGER MEANS NOTHING! And neither does McCain's ad saying that Barack kept saying he (McCain) was right. What you mostly saw was a lecturing old man act like he knew more than his opponent when he clearly did not and a similarly lecturing your man look calm, sane and measured. You can pick apart individual exchanges but the overall was a calm steady hand over an excited old man whose time is past and who can only excite people with bygone tales from when the world was supposedly better. McCain may win....but this week has exposed him as completely unfit.

Funniest part of the evening? McCain deriding the "talk without preconditions" drivel. Remember that? Everyone who watched it will remember it.
McCain had the entire crowd laughing at Obama.
Good stuff huh?

It doesn't look like Obama cares who agrees with his stance. There is the fact that Kissinger didn't say "president to president" meetings. Obama did. And he doesn't seem to care how many republicans agree with that. I think this is a president. He may just sit that table when the time comes (i.e. after the groundwork he has constantly referred to is laid) and get up deciding that somebody needs a real whoopin. The difference is that he'll get up with the moral authority to declare the whoopin. Again, that's a president.

Yup, just as funny as when Obama called out McCain for dissing Spain, or Obama calling out McCain for bomb bomb Iran, and just as funny as watching McCain twitch, itch and grimace.

I just look at the undecided polls. Obama won the GQR and Luntz focus groups. He won CNN 51-38 and CBS 40-22.

Also, quotes from Newsweek:

"Tone and manner was the greatest contrast."

"Less about substance, than the demeanor and the tone of voice these candidates adopted."

"Where McCain was being much more pointed, more aggressive, although curiously, he couldn’t look Obama in the eye."

"Obama’s tone much more straight and even keel, but ready to look his opponent in the eye, repeatedly."

"A big contrast."

"As much of a contrast on that ground, as age and height between the two."

"Where McCain was being much more pointed, more aggressive, although curiously, he couldn’t look Obama in the eye."

That's it in a nutshell. If McCain thinks Obama "doesn't understand" anything...why can't he even look him in the eye??

Who is the most powerful man in the room?

One woman said McCain couldn't look Barack in the eye because he was embarrassed. Another, because he was afraid he'd get angry.

Another woman thought that McCain focused too much on sentimental stories about himself and not enough on regular people. This comment resonates with me. McCain is the most narcissistic candidate I've ever seen, and that includes Bill Clinton.

He honestly believes he's ENTITLED to the Presidency because.

Noun.verb.POW

That's how he thinks.

And, you know how I feel about folks that think they're ENTITLED to be President.

No, no!
Tell, tell!
:-)

I think that lack of eye contact thing is helping him in these polling numbers. I still want to know why he didn't do it???!?!?!?

Not exactly on topic but: Check out this dkos diary and look at the picture of Senator Obama looking right at his wife with the back of her head to the camera and Looooove all over his face and in his eyes -- just beautiful.

(scroll down some, right now it's the picture under the one of Michelle alone)

Heh....he only cares that she's proud of him.

Sometimes I think that's why he doesn't tear McCain a new one...he wants his family to be proud of him. Imagine Malia and Sasha watching the clips in the future...think of all the kids he'll set an example for.

it was cute! It seemed like he really missed her and I have no idea why it was cute to me, that he asked her how she was doing? Perhaps, because he was the one finishing up such an important event.

I saw that. Some of the pictures of them together make me blush, there's so much heat there. Black love is a beautiful thing.

Yeah...he wears his feelings for her on his sleeve. Did you see her eyes when he began his convention speech?

I loved that moment. It was as if, by sheer force of will and love, Michelle could prop up Barack and carry him through the most important moment of his life so far. It was amazing to catch that on camera.

Oh yeah. The most scandalous picture of them though is the one where he's behind Michelle and he's nuzzling her ear while her head is tilted back with her eyes closed. That's practically some XXX rated stuff right there (hee).

where is that pic MsKitty?

I like the video of them at Malia's soccer match flirting and passing little "love licks" like middle schoolers and of them with their fingers intwined again like some preteens.

Of course now that I brought it up it took me forever to find it. Check out the right hand sidebar on this link, it should be the 9th or 10th picture.

thanks, girl. that is a goody!

Cafepress has a t-shirt with that picture on it.
Do a search for Michelle for First Lady.

oh, from his 2004 convention speech with her in the white suit

saw it... It was beautiful!

From James Fallows

Fallows:

Unless it happened when I glanced away, up until this moment, 77 minutes into the 90-minute debates, John McCain has not once looked at Obama -- while listening to him, while addressing him, while disagreeing with him, while finding moments of accord.

This is distinctly strange -- if anyone else notices. Obama is acting as if this is a conversation; McCain, as if he cannot acknowledge the other party in the discussion.

Every time McCrazy said Obama didn't understand or know something Obama put on a Professor like ass whopping on him. I don't care if you hate Obama the dude is impressive and very prolific


Obama/Biden 08

While I wish that BO had taken the opening towards the end to get McCain on not supporting the GI Bill, I think he did really well. He was his usual gentlemanly self, but he was able to get in some choice zingers. I also thought it was interesting that McCain would not look at BO at all. What was up with that?

So you think Spouses shouldn't be able to take advantage of the GI Bill?
I wish McCain brought up:
ACORN
Obama Freddy Connections
Ayers
Wright
Code Pink

Ha! Tough.

English please?

Go ahead and have McSame bring up Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers this late in the game, and you will see me place an actual money bet on an Obama presidency for 2009. It reeks of desperation--nobody but dumb right wingers (surprise!) brings that stuff up. Voters and poll participants are so past that needless fluff.

Exactly.

Everybody's worried about their money...they don't have any patience for that ancient crap.

It's funny how an economic crisis can sharpen the focus.

McCain is spending all his energy putting out Palin fires. He can't split the campaigning load with her, cause he can't draw crowds.....and she can't be left to her own devices. He has all the expenses of a VP, but none of the benefits. He has to pay for a plane, her staff....pay lawyers to tamp down scandals in Alaska.... No wonder he's running out of cash.

McCain painted himself into a corner.

I wish McCain would have changed his depend before the debate then maybe he wouldn't have been so irritable.

wooooheee! :D

msmartin: LOL! :>) :>)

Obama-Biden '08!!

..that time you thought he was smiling....he was straining.

He's ashamed. The magnificent war hero spent the week being mocked by a talk show host, and even conservative writers. Letterman told John if he doesn't come to see him, maybe we wouldn't see John on inauguration day, and that's how it works. Letterman said his behaviour wasn't heroic. Think about that!! How humiliating for the proud John! Imagine being bitch slapped by a talk show host!

McCain went to hide out in Washington 'cause he's running out of money and losing in the polls. The war hero was being called "punk" on the internet...and ended up having to crawl back to debate, 'cause all Mississippi was pissed at him.

Who knows what Barack did to his ass in that White House meeting. John couldn't look Barack in the eye 'cause John thinks he's a big man..but made himself look small this week.

SHAME!

Shame: I agree. I almost wonder if that's a way to spin "no eye contact" McCain. I mean, there's lots of ways to imagine what's going through McCain's mind and soul right now, but the most pathetic and sad is that he's ashamed.

He's ashamed that he promised to take the high road but instead sold his soul to the devil.

And like any deal with the devil, he also got a bum steer. All that mud bought him nothing but dishonor -- not even a lead in the polls.

McCain said, "I'd rather lose an election than lose a war." But he never said he would rather lose an election than lose his soul. I bet he's regretting that deal right now, because at least, in November, he'd at least have that much left. Now he's got nothing.

It makes you feel bad for him. Which is fine with me, because no one votes for Presidents out of pity.

I agree Truthseeker. I said the same thing. He is embarassed for being called out as having no honor.

Shame. The Maverick being called out and how funny was it when Letterman showed him having makeup applied when he was supposedly on his way to Washington. Too funny.

Letterman gave McCain his props (he's a war hero!) then tore the bark off of him.

Maybe Barack has the right idea; praise McCain for his service, THEN rip his (McCain's) skin off.

HA!

And I think it was the 5,000 dollar American idol make-up artist too.

John King was quoting some post debate polls...I can't find them on the net. He said men thought McCain won by a slight margin, but women and older people overwhelmingly went for Obama. When you think...this was McCain's supposed "turf". If Obama scored on McCain's turf...and the other debates are on the economy, them McCain is fucked!

Without lubricant.

No you didn't.

Ouch!

Henry Kissinger is *NOT* pleased - Henry Kissinger believes Barack Obama misstated his views on diplomacy with US adversaries and is not happy about being mischaracterized..

In a just and fair world, Kissinger would've been hung a long time ago.

Anthony, I agree.

They keep invoking that bastard while conveniently forgetting he had to recuse himself from the 9/11 Commission because he didn't want to give up the list of his clients - some of whom were named Osama Bin Laden, among others suspected of masterminding 9/11.

Not to mention the shyt he pulled during the Nixon Administration. But McCain brought up that old bastard, as he did Reagan.

"Real Time with Bill Maher" was hilarious because Chris Rock, Tim Daly and Ralph Nader all beat up on the National Review reporter trying her best to spin shyt and failing miserably. Not to mention she was confronted with the quotes from an article done by her colleague, Kathleen Parker, that Sarah Palin could save John McCain by LEAVING THE RACE ALTOGETHER.

Talk about "Ouch!"

nonsense. Pleased or not, Kissinger made that statement. Katie Couric had this same conversation with Ms. Palin yesterday. so Karmi dear - You are wrong.

That video footage of the meeting and his statements cleared that all up.

And now, the rest of the story:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080927/ap_on_el_pr...

----

OBAMA: "Sen. McCain mentioned Henry Kissinger, who is one of his advisers, who along with five recent secretaries of state just said we should meet with Iran — guess what? — without preconditions."

MCCAIN: "Dr. Kissinger did not say that he would approve face-to-face meetings between the president of the United States and (Iranian President Mahmoud) Ahmadinejad. He did not say that. He said there could be secretary-level and lower-level meetings. I've always encouraged that."

THE FACTS: Obama was right that Kissinger called for meetings without preconditions. McCain was right that Kissinger did not call for such meetings to be between the two presidents.

In a foreign policy forum Saturday, Kissinger said: "I am in favor of negotiating with Iran." He went on to say, "I actually have preferred doing it at the secretary of state level" and the U.S. should go into the talks with "a clear understanding of what is it we're trying to prevent. What is it going to do if we can't achieve what we're talking about? But I do not believe that we can make conditions for the opening of negotiations. We ought, however, to be very clear about the content of negotiations and work it out with other countries and with our own government."

Kissinger is a tired has-been. Who the hell do you think he is? Who cares whether he's happy or not.

Obama got caught trying to put his words into Kissinger's mouth...

Kissinger and McCain are so old they forgot about Youtube.

LOL.

...LOL!!

Kissinger is trying to salvage the pathetic Palin and McCain performances, by playing semantics with whether he meant Presidential level meetings, or lower level meetings without pre-conditions.

Kissinger is a fat, washed-up, pathetic has-been who hangs with other pathetic dinosaurs.

I dunno what this hangin' with losers is doing for your self-esteem.

Anyone who believes and states publicly that Palin is fit for VP or Potus instantly loses credibility. In fact, I think they should be thrown in prison for treason.

Obama was caught on national TV...won't play well for him, even with MSM trying to help him again.

Heh heh.....

You wish, you rat bastard supporter.

Didn't you see the live footage of Kissinger making those exact statements? You're as out of touch as McCain and Kissinger.

Except Obama wasn't lying:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080927/ap_on_el_pr...

----------
In a foreign policy forum Saturday, Kissinger said: "I am in favor of negotiating with Iran." He went on to say, "I actually have preferred doing it at the secretary of state level" and the U.S. should go into the talks with "a clear understanding of what is it we're trying to prevent. What is it going to do if we can't achieve what we're talking about? But I do not believe that we can make conditions for the opening of negotiations. We ought, however, to be very clear about the content of negotiations and work it out with other countries and with our own government."
------------------

The nitpick was over whether or not the president should be directly involved (face to face) in such negotiations or one of his appointees, such as diplomats or someone from the cabinet. McCain tried (and failed) to paint ANY such negotiations as 'naive', grossly oversimplifying Obama's position.

Kissinger can drink a tall glass of STFU. That is all. No more feeding the troll.

I felt angry at first to hear McCain say over and over "Obama doesn't understand...blah blah blah" in his patronizing snotty tone, and I thought Obama must have a strategy here. But then I thought, women HATE that kind of condescending attitude, and respond to Baracks connecting and inclusive language. Sure enough, the polls right after the debate showed McCain got killed by women.

McCain's of a generation that doesn't understand this. (Mitt Romney didn't understand this either -- the way he treated his female opponent for MA Gov was abhorrent -- but Mitt Romney is stuck in some weird time warp. See: his hair).

Don't throw stones at me here, but if Bill Clinton was the first black President, Obama will be the first female one. *ducks*

He's all man however feminine he is!

I was thinking the same thing!!! That's how condescending men talk to women all the time. There, there..don't worry your pretty little head, sort of thing.

C'mon, I mean, hasn't Obama proved himself enough to earn his opponents respect by now? Nobody's buying that crap anymore.

I think you raised an excellent point. Nothing pisses me off more than someone telling me I don't know what I know. The repetitiveness of that statement was not even slick. Condescencion is something that we women know quite well.... Okay sweetie, not go sit down and let the big boys run things. I think obama is pulling a mark Antony in Julius Ceasar.... notice code words "honorable man". YOu are right Mr. Mcain...LOL

We killed the game

-McCain

Drill Babe Drill, SUV's runs on GAS!

Can we drill your brain?

You won't find anything there, Town.

There's not that kind of gas in his head. Only the hot air kind. Maybe you can use it to power some windmills.

Common sense and logic just don't have a place in your brain, do they, Jibreel?

Dude had to bring up Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers not twenty minutes ago.

They're getting mighty desperate.

I think Obama won this debate slightly.

The tightrope that Obama has to walk is a catch 22. He has absolutely no shot at winning if he let's loose and gives the opposition ammunition for an angry Black man moment but at the same time he can't land that deathblow without risking that opening.

A perfect example of the limitation of this reality can be seen by watching Biden's response to the debate. Biden tore into McCain with abandon and he was able to add both substance and the streetfight elemets that would get to the core of the issues.

Jefferson: Hey! :>) Your key terms tightrope, angry Black man moment, risking

These all bespeak the FACT that being clothed in Black skin has limitations that those clothed in white skin will NEVER have to deal with!

Sooo, I cannot praise Mr. Obama ENOUGH for his PATIENCE under these societal pressures!

Obama-Biden '08!!

That's why I cannot wait until he is president and he can shout "Enough" to all the stupid people, all the wayward dictators and the repubs who try to rip off the poor.

He will be able to be strong and strident and do some real change. He will be such a different president from what we are used to and if he can turn this country around, he will be one of the most beloved.

Those bastards are trying to hang a 700 billion dollar millstone around his neck.

And it makes me want to spit bullets.

Obama did very well in this debate. McCain looked desperate. Another great thing about having Biden out there is that he is not afraid to go and interview with the media - unlike her highness Queen Palin.

This was McCain's "strong " subject, yet Obama handed it to him. We will probably not be talking about foreign policy anymore

Biden is tearing down McCain on CNN. He is killing him and focusing on McCain's interpretation of tactic vs strategy.

Plus, I know many of you aren't fans of Gergen but he seems to take some pretty reasoned commentary. He agreed with Obama's forceful methods in the beginning of the debate. That's for you, Webb.

Gergen's looks to be one of the most reasoned voices in the whole fray of commentators.

Yea, I respect Gergen.

It turns out that presumptive Republican nominee Sen. John McCain has attended even fewer Afghanistan-related Senate hearings over the past two years than Obama’s one. Which is a nice way of saying, McCain, R-Ariz., the top Republican on the Senate Armed Service Committee, has attended zero of his committee’s six hearings on Afghanistan over the last two years.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/07...