Jack & Jill Politics

Just had an eye-opening, revelatory experience....I'm just getting back from the public library and Walmart.

First, I went to check out a book. The library was about to close, and rushing out were a lot of "my people" with luggage--fresh luggage with the wheels and pull-handles. The shit was frightening--the newly homeless.

I proceeded to the Walmart about half-a-mile away. The aisles were bustling primarily with latino immigrants some of whom I shall presume were illegal. As much as I like to think of myself as an ultra-liberal, in that moment I was struck with some severe xenophobia.

What happens when this economy totally tanks? What happens when the jobs that "only illegal immigrants would do," become the "only jobs available?" As gas prices race toward $5-a-gallon and the Dow heads below 11,000, there's serious trouble on the horizon.

If this economy is not strengthened soon, there's going to be a meltdown that no immigration-reform bill will be able to fix.

Silly Season:

If you have heard of the story regarding Obama refusing to do a fist bump with a little boy...it's not true. You know...as I am typing this, I'm realizing how stupid this is...but anyway, Rachel M. is filling in for Keith and they played to tape of the event. Obama was in a class full of kids and the little boy asked Obama TO SIGN HIS HAND (an autograph) and Obama said he didn't think it would be a good idea. That's it folks. That is it.

CNN retracted the story. It's still on HuffPo

Priceless...and stupid at the same time.

Al Giordano on Obama "moving" to the center as well as patriotism. A must read: http://narcosphere.narconews.com/thefield/smart...

I think what many people who are disappointed with Obama's "movement" (I question whether it's truly a movement) to the center fail to realize is that it's VERY hard to get a progressive elected as POTUS. (And please don't give me FDR as an example of a progressive prez because he was only progressive for white Americans). It is also VERY hard to get a black person elected as POTUS. My friend and I were discussing this last night. The only way a black person will become POTUS is if he (and I intentionally said HE) is a republican. Obama's people know this. This presidential campaign is about the independent voters--who usually lean republican--McSame and Obama know this. So let's not fool ourselves here. Obama knows he's got our votes. He's trying to win over some independents because that's the only way he can win.

Now that the Anit-FISA group on Obama's site is going national press... If Obama doesn't change his mind, what then! Will all the member of the group then actively oppose Obama, maybe hold a protest outside of his campaign HQ...

I would just like to know how far this opposition plans to go if Obama doesn't meet their demands. Which is definitely won't/shouldn't now that the "whole worlds knows the netroots bizness" if Obama caves to the netroots, then he will look weak. In fact over on MSNBC, the pundits are already talking about how McCain can take advantage of the division within the party.

The netroots, as a rule, don't know anything about winning elections. But they think they do.

Barack will vote as he sees fit, regardless of all that anti-activism.

You are so correct, Craig.

At DKos you would think someone died.

I am not crazy about these "Obama's About Face", but he is our nominee and I am not a one issue voter.

You know who is MY pick over them ALL for President? Dennis Kucinich, but we see where his campaign went. Hard left is not going to get elected in this country. Back in the '30s, yes, in '08 NO.

regarding McCain and Clark......when McCain was campaigning against war vet Tammy Duckworth (lost both legs in Iraq......the rally message was below and by the Roskam is not a vet. Guess McCain has a different set of rules for himself and the hell with other vets running for office.

Angela

from abclocal.go.com sritten by Paul Meincke

"........Arizona Senator John McCain campaigned Monday for fellow Republican Peter Roskam at what was billed as a rally of veterans for Roskam. Several of the vets attending are from the same Illinois National Guard unit as Roskam foe Tammy Duckworth.

Their message is that while Duckworth deserves recognition for her service and sacrifice in Iraq, that doesn't make her qualified to serve in Congress. "

There's a huge wag the dog story that broke today.

How transparent.

This is what I want to ask people who is making the claim that Senator Obama is abandoning his ideals, moving to the center or right in order to pander and other things like that.

How do you know what you know?

Seriously. What information have you taken in, how have you processed and analyzed this information, how did you draw your conclusions?

I understand and totally support clear direct statements of disagreement, such as "I do not agree with Senator Obama's position or actions on X (optional: and this is why)."

What I am talking about here is different from that kind of disagreement

I am talking about the claim that there is some reasonable divergence of expectations versus reality -- that is, the claim that it is reasonable to expect Senator Obama to do or say things he is not, or to expect him not to do or say things he is.

This kind of claim implies (or if it doesn't, it should!) that the speaker has actual solid knowledge on which to base her or his expectations and that the failure of these expectations to materialize in reality is the fault of Senator Obama.

I would like people who are making such statements publicly to start being open and transparent about their methods of knowing, and their specific information sources so that their statements can be better assessed by those of us who keep having to read these things.

When there is a clash between my expectations and actual reality of what is happening, what are the options? One option is to immediately get angry and feel betrayed that the actual reality isn't living up to what you expected and blame whatever and whoever isn't living up to the expectations.

But here's the thing -- when there is a clash between what is going on and what you expect to happen, there is another part of the equation: the information and methods by which you actually came up with the expectations in the first place. While this may NOT be the source of the clash, it is always possible that it is. Part of dealing with the clash, IMO, is questioning this piece also.

So to me it is normal and necessary to ask questions like: where did my expectations come from, specifically (what information and process)? Did I lack crucial information? Did I misunderstand what is going on? Have I been interpreting in categories or with definitions that aren't really accurate to the situation?

So to pick kind of an extreme situation: If there is a clash between Senator Obama's promise to MoveOn to fillibuster a FISA bill with immunity, and his current actions (I say if because as we all know it has not actually come to a vote in the Senate) -- if there is a clash, what is the nature of the divergence?

Some people might just pick the part that they agree with and assume THIS is what Senator Obama is about. To me, that method of choosing and processing the information is sloppy and too self-referential to be really solid information about another person/external situation.

I myself see his promise to MoveOn as possibly a deviation from how he operates and as a real mistake on his part. Promising a specific action in advance of an actual real situation limits flexibility and ability to take on the situation in its actual real full context -- goals are one thing, tactics are quite another.

And from what I have observed about him, reading his books and interviews (and a bio about him), closely watching his campaign (through the media and blogs) since just after Iowa, and having a direct experience with his Chicago campaign staff recently ... that kind of flexibility and close attention to context is part of how he normally operates.

I could be wrong. That's the thing. I am watching my own conclusions and assumptions as I go. I know that what I perceive is just that, what I perceive. I am trying to keep track of my own breaking points in relation to my support of Senator Obama -- what is so crucial to me that if I am wrong in what I think is going on (and it would be ME who is wrong) I could not support him.

If that happens, though, to me it will be the fault of my own perception and analysis, and not his fault. I will not feel betrayed by his failure to live up to my expectations. My expectations are my responsibility. That's why I need to stay vigilant about my own perception and assumptions.

Because. I don't define reality -- I am not the only one in it nor am I its center or most important part. What I know is I can try to understand what is going on and that understanding shifts with ongoing information, observation, analysis. I can try to understand as accurately as possible so I can act responsibly in the actual landscape.

I know reality doesn't conform to my perception and that I have responsibility to try to understand and that I can and sometimes am wrong about what I think is going on.

I want to know if the people making these claims about pandering and divergence of expectations have done any sort of critical analysis of where they themselves are coming from.

I know some of them are just concern trolls who didn't really support Obama to start with and are exploiting an "opportunity" to sow dissent. But if any are sincere, and my sense is some may be, I want to see some real openness detail and transparency from them about how they came to their expectations and how they determined the error is on Senator Obama's side and not with their own understanding.

It is news because it is one of MANY stories illustrating a pattern of someone that obviously has some anger management issues (bomb bomb iran?) Could be PTSD, I don't know.

It is news because his temper is often whispered about by his colleagues and others. Most of the stories are out of his home state and are not reported on a national level. The media in Arizona are quite familiar with his temper. I have certainly seen the flare ups with my own eyes. Do you not remember the female reported he berated during the Republican Primary while on a plane? I can't wait to see him matched up against Obama in a debate, I bet he will really lose it.

Some (unsurprising) liberal sentiment for the 4th:

A not-so-glorious Fourth

Republican Senator recalls McCain's nasty temper on a previous diplomatic trip

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/sns...


Do we really want this guy's finger on the button?

In 1987?

Twenty years ago?

This is news.........why?

20 years later at the age of 71 he's probably even crankier and less of a diplomat than he was before.

Er....no thanks.

This JUST in!

Erik Estrada (from CHIPS) is backing John McCain.

DAMNNNNNNNN

Jay, the NRA won. They look ridiculous now.

Black woman dies ignored and unattended in emergency room waiting area

I guess we have the best health care in the world, but it's still race and class-based. If she had been seen within a hour, rather than the 24 hours she was made to endure, she might be alive right now. Another example of black women's lives being expendable...Michelle Obama not withstanding.

She was Black, Poor, and Mentally Ill, it seems. This combination is lethal. AND, it's New York City? This woman didn't stand a chance.

This society isn't exactly reaching out to those in need. I looked at the video of her and I was reminded of that old man in CT who was run down and left for dead; it's a cold world out here. And, it all does depend upon the hospital. I've learned that with my experiences with my mother.

She was in a waiting room with other black people. The security guard was black. One person in the waiting room was making a phone call. The cop who dumped the disabled man out of his wheelchair was black. Clearly somebody told security the woman had passed out. He didn't even bother to get off his ass to walk to the room, he scooted on his chair and looked in from the doorway. No one went over and tried to help this woman. I hear everyone involved has been fired. This sick woman sat upright on a hard chair for 24 hours without sleep. When she struggled to get up no one tried to help her.

I was speaking of those caregivers--doctors, nurses, health professionals --who were supposed to care for her needs; not necessarily the other sick and care-deprived people in the waiting room.

The cop should have automatically yelled for help, not waited 45 minutes.

blksista,

I am beside myself about this...

I don't know what was missing in those people that to see someone fall to the ground and struggle doesn't compel them to even walk over and try to help! You just keep making your phone call like nothing happened.
The old man who got hit by a car the other day...no one even flinched! The person who hit him just kept going! What the fuck is going on? Are we all in some collective trance. What is making us so numb to each other?

Everyone is into themselves and their own pain. Believe me, it has gotten to this point because from top down, nobody cares. It's like people being in a concentration camp. This has been going on for quite a while.

I remember falling to the ground because it was wet and slippery, and some people were coming out of a building at the same time. Two men crossed the street and came over and helped me up while the others watched from afar or went to their cars. I thanked them profusely. They were white. They could have been from the worst dregs of the world, and they could have robbed or raped me, but they helped me up.

A child on a bus was cursed at and yelled at and called everything but a child of god by his drunken father, and nobody said anything but the bus driver, who told him to lay off. I myself was frozen with fear that if I said something to the drunk, he would turn on me with far worse. I'm sure everyone else was just as frozen and fearful. I often think about that child and his father who got off before I did. Did the child get beaten after they went home for allegedly making the father drop his take-out of fried rice?

No, folks do not care. We used to. We could again.

Rikyrah, what do you think about the CBC members getting primary challengers because of their support for Hillary Clinton in the face of Obama winning their districts?

I believe that I didn't really like that story as written. They always try and make it so simple-simon, CPL. It's not just that those districts voted overwhelmingly for Obama and they supported Clinton. It's that they either stood by silent as Camp Hillpatine racebaited, or they put themselves out front to be a Black face to give cover to the racebaiting, and Black folk ain't having that.

This is the first time, begun with the CBC Report Card, that 'Black Elected Official' and "Accountability' have been used in the same sentence for what....maybe the first time EVER in some of these folks' careers?

I'm all for it. And we should be giving what we can to these challengers.

I agree with you so much. I read this story and thought the same thing; they aren't telling the whole story.

I like what the guy said about it being about getting rid of the old guard that is beholden to the special interests, which is in my opinion, the Cintons.

Black woman dies ignored and unattended in emergency room waiting area

I guess we have the best health care in the world, but it's still race and class-based. If she had been seen within a hour, rather than the 24 hours she was made to endure, she might be alive right now. Another example of black women's lives being expendable...Michelle Obama not withstanding.

I guess we have the best health care in the world..

More American mythology.

I was being facetious...

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thanks.

For the Love of Money. The McCains.

Cindy McCain should never open her mouth about elitism AGAIN.

MCCAIN CRITICISM ALERT:

Ok, the McCains really shouldn't have said anything about the Obamas being elitist (end of criticism).

But does personal property really have any bearing on anything facing this nation?

And if it does, are we going to have a discussion on the Obamas' mortgage?

JJ Walker is a "black" republikkkan Damn!

From American Thinker:

The Meta-Messages in Obama's Patriotism Speech

Does it seem that Obama has begun to pander to a lot of interest groups? I hope he doesn't abandon his platform by listening to the wrong advisors; some of the same ones who "helped" John Kerry right out of the Presidency.

Obama of late has been throwing a lot of people under the bus for something they said or how they said it, the latest: General Wesley Clark for stating a truth.

If Obama keeps this up, what will he have left after compromising all of his ideals?

Am I still sleepy, or should this be Wednesday's thread?

:)

LoL, it better be Wednesday...I gotz one more day to go.

Welcome back Rikyrah! Did you take a little vacatiion during the upgrade? You went somewhere without WiFi/Internet access?

Rikyrah, what do you think about the CBC members getting primary challengers because of their support for Hillary Clinton in the face of Obama winning their districts?

Right now, I'm thinking that only Charlie Rangel escapes a challenge because he got Harlem lined up behind her; but as for the rest, I think the Clinton issue opens the door for CBCMonitor's Report Card to give the challengers more ammunition.

Did you say drop links? Well if you insist ...

The Senator Obama - Please, No Telecom Immunity and Get FISA Right is now the second-largest group on myBO. Ari Melber's Surveillance Protest Group Tops Obama Website has more.

Amongst our tactics to try to get the word out, we're going to be focusing on social bookmarking sites like digg, reddit, and so on. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

And fans of the Clinton Attacks Obama wiki might be interested in my The first thing to do: set up a wiki ... it's a very different role for the wiki, but still extremely effective thus far.

And he is "handling his business"!

Obama managed to skip the vetting earlier; however, he is getting some serious vetting from now until the election.

Dig It!