Hypocrisy is blinding because when you spin so much…you get dizzy.

Also, people here still don’t get why many black people did not care for the speech in the way it was presented and the time it was presented.

You guys are thinking in very small and limited terms…continue though.

I was shocked when I cam on this message board and saw people here who are so adament about their support actually upset! I was shocked. Each and everytime Obama makes a slight, more blacks and others like Leila and my uncle wake up.

Leila,

My uncle is from Jordan. He feels the same way you do especially after the speech at the AIPAC. He told me just an hour ago that he will still support Barack but the magic is gone.

I felt that way over the whole Dr. Wright thing. I was so crazy about Barack and his candidacy. After that whole thing, I look at some of what he says differently. I also cannot help but feel like the magic too is gone for me.

I think that this is for the better. You would not want to be so excited and then get let down so hard. He is a politican and this country is not easy. I am a bit more rational now. I have no problem giving him critique when it is deserved.

It is hard for me to believe in change.

As I say, I like him and I will support him, I also understand the tight rope that he is walking. I don’t kick people when they are in that position but I have to make sure that he is not kicking us.

“The attitudes of many in the Carribbean regarding African Americans in this country is another topic that should be explored, which i will not go into here”

My family is from the Caribbean and I hear you with that. I made a concious effort to break out of that narrow-minded and prejudice thinking. In my family to call someone a “black american” was to an insult. I never understood that and I was always bothered by it. I will discuss it from an inside perspective when I get the chance.

“Not You Average Womanist”-

“I actually liked the speech. When he said “boys”, I wasn’t thinking of black men but the “boys” that are now fathering children and not doing a damned thing for them. And when you know you got kids you don’t take care of, I can’t consider you a man”

Obama was refering to black men and everybody knows that. If he did not slap a race on it and continued his platform of being race-neutral then people would not have a problem with what he said. I grew up with a cross section of people. I knew of men of all races who dropped the ball when it came to fatherhood. In this country despite the disportionate amount of single parent households in the black community. There are nearly five times as many white single family households however it is a black issue. In divorce, children often slip through the cracks of their parents bitter break. This country as a big divorce rate. If Obama cares about families, he should have made this an american conversation. Not a black one.

“While it did seem like he was ragging on absentee black fathers (because he was) he also made a point of uplifting his father in law. A black man who was there 100% for his family. He used him as an example of what fatherhood should be.”

You went ahead to contradict your inital assertion. He was speaking solely to black men. There are countless black men, millions who do this every day. They are constantly overshadowed and I am sick of that. His father-in-law is far from the only.

“I suppose I was looking at this speech as someone who has seen what triflin’ “baby daddies” have done young women and the kids. This is not to say I don’t know some triflin’ mothers because I do. “

That is because the young women and trifflin “baby daddy” made the wrong decision at the wrong time to have a child. They are not in a committed relationship so what is the likely hood of them being committed to the child. This happens in all communities. You have to know the right time. My mother had me when she was 32 and my sister when she was 34. My parents were married and waited for the right time. When their finances were straight and they had well-paying jobs is when they decided to have kids. I also want to say that many then go onto get divorced which causes issues in this respect. I have a friend (she is white) who hasn’t seen her father since her parents divorced. It has been 10 years now.

” also think that while the speech could be viewed as a little harsh, it was mostly positive. It wasn’t just about black fathers but about we as America have lowered our standards.”

I was about black fathers. You contradicted yourself again in that regard.This is why the black blogs are talking about it. When whites talk about Obama’s speech, they talk about black fathers and black men exclusively because even if you are bling and dumb, you got who he was speaking about.

“Still, I had to laugh when he referenced the Chris Rock joke. While I show my father everyday including Father’s Day, being a father to your kid is something that you are supposed to do. Same goes for women.”

I happened to find that to be the most offensive part especially with the jail reference.

It is father’s day people celebrate all that there father has done…hello…that is the point of the holiday.

Now had you called them on their attempts to villify an entire group, you would then be labeled, angry, outspoken, radical, militant, pick one. I am sure that most posters to this blog at one time or another been called one of those names for standing up and being included in the maligned group.

So I would be very careful about being proud or special when some of these people say to you, “Oh I wasn’t talking about you.”

That was not a compliment.

Take a valium and calm down. By your moniker alone you identify yourself as from the Caribbean in apparently and obviously your perception of the African-American experience in THIS country is probably seen in a different prism from mine.

Saying that I will say this. I thought about whether to respond to your vile, and dare say, overly-sensitive response to a valid criticism of Barack Obama. He is not God. He is man who has and will continue to make mental mistakes when addressing not only this issue which was influenced by his upbringing by white parents which I dare say skewed even if unconsciously his views regarding black men and what he heard growing up.

The attitudes of many in the Carribbean regarding African Americans in this country is another topic that should be explored, which i will not go into here, but suffice it to say, I in my humble attempts to remain relevant, offering MY opinion of this speech and any other actions taken by Barack Obama which my affect my ability to live in this country will not stop, even with the vitrolic, unnecessary name-calling. I am not a liar because I offer a difference of opinion. He did state Black men and did reference some as boys. Now where does that come from.

On a day when we should be cherishing the outstanding contributions of fathers to their families, this was not the place or time.

To compare my comments to Fox News now that is truly an insult as well as offensive. Check yourself before posting, you are embarassing yourself.

While it did seem like he was ragging on absentee black fathers (because he was) he also made a point of uplifting his father in law. A black man who was there 100% for his family. He used him as an example of what fatherhood should be.
I suppose I was looking at this speech as someone who has seen what triflin’ “baby daddies” have done young women and the kids. This is not to say I don’t know some triflin’ mothers because I do.

I also think that while the speech could be viewed as a little harsh, it was mostly positive. It wasn’t just about black fathers but about we as America have lowered our standards.

Still, I had to laugh when he referenced the Chris Rock joke. While I show my father everyday including Father’s Day, being a father to your kid is something that you are supposed to do. Same goes for women.

“Let me be clear about something else that bothers me about Obama speech: It was presumptuous because it assumes that because the black electorate has given him its political support we have also granted him the right to serve as our moral and ethical gatekeeper.”

That is exactly my issue.

He goes in front of a black crowd and repudiates them for not having values.

Then he runs an ad talking about how his white grandparents and mother taught him the values that he knows and to rely on himself and not make “excuses”. So he confirms this idea that whites have values which is why he has them and blacks do not? That he is who he is because of his white upbringing. Many whites think that and he is giving credence to it.

Please tell me if you think that I am looking too much into this but that is how it hit me and it made me crinch.

The wording and juxtapositioning in that add was odd and the wording…I could not help but think of this.

I could care less how many times he made a similar speech in the past, it was not needed now especially with the way that it would be perceived.

I guess Obama is doing the i’m not like them act.

Whatever…like I expected anything different.

Go easy.

I did say that I understood your point! It was the BO was dismissing all Black men point that I didn’t understand. And I NEVER said dead beat dads was a new problem so I don’t know what gave you that impression. I simply said it was the truth and valid…I wasn’t trying to debate anything with you..whether it was the proper time, place or if he was pandering is a matter of opinion and far be it from me to try to change someone else’s especially when I am ambivalent on those particular points. Again, I stated that he told the truth and for that I don’t get it when some say they are offended when they were not the intended “audience”. The praise was for them. Again, as far as your other points my intention was only to say that I do UNDERSTAND what you are expressing not to be antagonistic.

Against Race Politics (not anonymous)

Anonymous -

I follow current events fairly closely and I don’t recall any developing crisis or current controversy regarding black fathers failing to address their responsibilities. To go further, I certainly was not aware that it had become an issue in this presidential election cycle. I also did not see it raised during the Democratic or Republican primaries.

Obama and his advisors decided to raise this issue on Fathers’ Day because he wanted to distinguish himself from the so-called liberal orthodoxy of the Democratic Party as defined by political conservatives and disaffected white Reagan Democrats (despite the fact that these folks began getting their hats in 1968). I know a large number of liberal Democrats, many of them black, and I have never met one who believes that it is okay for black fathers to shirk their parental responsibilities.

This is an issue that Obama and his advisors have publicized as a way to improve his chances of being elected by polishing his image as someone who will call black folks and liberals out on their b.s. I will continue to support his candidacy and contribute money but his stance is as phony as a three dollar bill.

Obama is not running for the presidency of Black America. The black electorate has no such position in its ranks and, given his position on the Palestinians and other issues, he does not, in my opinion, occupy high enough moral ground to publicly rebuke any group of black fathers about their problems and shortcomings. I remain firm in my conviction that he should have used Fathers Day at Apostolic to weave and reinforce black fathers into the fabric of American society. He did not do so.

Let me be clear about something else that bothers me about Obama speech: It was presumptuous because it assumes that because the black electorate has given him its political support we have also granted him the right to serve as our moral and ethical gatekeeper. Maybe some, if not many, of us have granted him this latitude but my family and I have not.

Politicians and comedians making speeches about irresponsible black men has not produced one iota of change in the behavior of these men. Arguing that these politicians and entertainers are speaking the “truth” implies that black folks are not already aware of these “truths” and, like sheep, need these individuals to lead them to gates of wisdom. If Obama wants to play the role of a truthteller, then he will have to play that role in every venue he enters. Authentic prophetic voices always refuse to be silenced, which is why they do not run for political office.

One more thing, CPL..you asked how many times others have been offended by something someone said when they were not speaking to them. That’s different…Yes I am offended by crimes etc that affected other people b/c I could have been an innocent victim but a
DEAD BEAT DAD is not an innocent victim or someone that I can sypathize with. I said this earlier, it’s different when to say you were hurt or offended by slavery when we were not a part of it ALL Americans should be but who should be hurt FOR a dead beat dad??? That particular point to me is still apples and oranges. Yes I can empathize with a Catholic that has been molested even though I am not Catholic and ahve never been molested, yes I am heartbroken about slavery and wish my ancestors had never been made to take part in it but no I can’t feel sympathy for a dead beat dad. I just can’t and I see no reason to group myself into this category as I can with other INNOCENT or victimized people. I mean I could get it if BO lied or maybe if someone could tell me why non deadbeats feel group with deadbeats…..

Well, I’m glad that you clarified your use of the word “pansies” but cowardly or some other synonym would probably work better in the future.

NOT TO BE ARGUMENTATIVE (and I certainly haven’t taken place in name calling and never do)and I am a Christian…I understand all the points made by people who are against the speech EXCEPT the He threw all Black men under the bus comment. Oh before I get into that as far as Glen Ford comment..why is it offensive to call a dead beat a boy? Hmmm maybe it’s not the most Christian thing to call him but it is certainly one of the tamer names that come to mind! They don’t deserve respect for not fulfulling their responsibilities. Now back to my original question, even though Obama gave praise to good fathers and even mentioned non Southside dead beat dads on whose authority do you have to assign his comments to all Black men even though he didn’t? And I do ask this respectfully b/c after all of the posting I still don’t understand why all Black men should be offended. Again, I understand the other points- whether I agree with them or not or shoot let’s just say he was wrong on all other counts I really would like to be able to understand this particular point even if I don’t agree.

Against Race Politics

Are you a Christian? Then who are you to judge me? Even if you are a Christian, the Bible is really clear “Judge not, lest ye be judged.”

If I’ve offended you with my saltiness, and it gets you off track as a Christian, I do apologize, because that I take very seriously.

However, you are dealing with an individual who has been highly abused by leaders and whatnot in the Church, in Jesus’ name and right now, I’m finding my way back to Jesus in a way that works for me. Comments like yours, judging me on whether or not I’m a Christian, sent me out of the church.

And “bigoted pansies”? Honestly, there’s no one on this board more gay-friendly than me, because when the “Christians” were tearing down a sista, kicking her out of jobs, setting her up for failure, in Jesus’ name, it was gays and lesbians who gave me a second chance. The pansies remark is referencing “cowards” although in hindsight, I guess it could be conveyed towards gay people, so I apologize if anyone took it as such.

Now, as Martin Lawrence would say, “RUNTELLDAT.”

I save my name calling for Fox Noise, and other “pundits” who use whatever words we say to place them in context of where they can lie about African-Americans AS A WHOLE.

So, Carribean Lionness, there probably will never be a time when I write something you don’t agree with and I’m okay with it. But, you have engaged in the very disrespect that you denounce elsewhere. But if you don’t like what I have to say, you are always free not to respond.

And if you think you didn’t engage in name-calling, recheck your first few posts. Unlike you, I fully support freedom of speech, even when I disagree with it, but I will always draw the line at slander, innuendo and flat out lies. All I pointed out was that Obama needs to quit handing the enemy ammunition to use against us. Let me recap:

DAP/Fist Bump – “Terrorist Handshake”

My Wife – “Baby Mama”

Michelle, his wife (an articulate, educated, beautiful, chocolate sista NOT playing MAMMY) – “Angry Black Woman”.

We’re going to see this from now until after the brotha gets sworn in, and it probably won’t stop until his last day in office. While we’d like to believe we should be past racism, the fact remains that there are votes he’s not going to get because he’s a Brotha, and that’s the real. Which is why we need to call out any media outlet engaging in this punditry, and that also includes not handing the enemy any more ammunition that they can use.

It’s easy to say “If they weren’t talking about you, then it doesn’t matter”. How many times have you heard something that you knew didn’t apply to you, and yet, you felt insulted, whatever? The brothas who responded to Obama’s remarks (and yes, not only did I watch the speech, its’ been reposted here on this very thread) were interpreting his remarks as if he slung ALL BROTHAS, including the ones holding it down as fathers, under the bus, whether it applied to them or not.

I support Barack Obama, and yet, my training as a political scientist taught me to evaluate and analyze very carefully what’s coming out of his mouth, so in the end, if he gets the White House, and he starts engaging in policies that starts giving people heartburn, I, for one, will not be caught off guard, because, if we analyze his speeches, and sift through rhetoric and code words, we will know exactly what the man is telling us he’s going to do as POTUS.

No one is asking him to pay attention only to the concerns of African-Americans; yet, his reluctance to discuss issues pertaining to African-American communities, like the issue of Black Fathers (or their absence) is making me very nervous in the sense that once he’s sworn in, and nothing changes in the African-American community like it was supposed to do in the movie “Rufus Jones for President” a good deal of his Black supporters are going to be highly disappointed, even though they say they won’t be.

I need to remind you that once he’s elected (and I believe he will beat the shyt out of McCain in the Fall), Obama will have very little room for error and very little time to make an impact (usually, POTUS don’t get to do things to make significant impacts until their second term, if they see one) – so from Day One, he’s already campaigning for the second term by making sure he lays a foundation for re-election. That means not pissing off the real benefactors that got him there.

I like the political discussions here on this blog, but I have never engaged in calling any commenter on here names, even if I disagree with them. The fact that CL prefers to call me names as opposed to engaging in real discussion, well, who’s really the whiney, immature one on this board?

Oh, and CL – long posts like yours suggests you should get your own blog because it appears you have a lot to say. Think about it.