Belle, stay. I’ll concede the point.

Yes, FISA could be used to monitor the communications of ordinary citizens. Because the FISA court’s proceedings are held in secret, we will never know if that’s how it was used or not.

You all are well within your rights to be upset.

that last comment does it for me: “when you show me some evidence . . . “

so utterly absurd and, as i said, deliberately obtuse. that is what the whole fucking fight is about. they will NEVER have to show evidence if this bill passes. that is the point.

goodbye y’all. it’s been real. take care of yourselves.

Junglecat,

When I see that, I’ll cry foul.

“But that’s not what we’re talking about, is it? “

That’s exactly what we’re talking. We are talking about you saying that you have nothing to hide and me trying to explain to you how FISA can be used against you in spite of the fact that you have nothing to hide.

It could be used in that way and for that reason, it is unacceptable.

Try to stay with me.

What did Clinton do? Throw missiles into empty caves? Sic law enforcement on an enemy with no discernable territory?

Only one of those approaches seems to have kept those terrorists on the run. And I’ll let history speak for which one.

Of course not.

But that’s not what we’re talking about, is it? Or are you suggesting that FISA is being used the same way COINTELPRO was?

If our country’s enemies were somewher where we can point and say, “there they are!” FISA in its current form might not be necessary.

They’re not, so it is.

Obviously, your life is of no signifigance to the government, but imagine if it were; perhaps you desired to effect some positive change or right some monumental wrong – let’s say – like ending Jim Crow or maybe force adherence to human rights and someone who had a lot to lose (usually monetarily, but sometimes for ideological reason like sustaining a superior race) and could use the powers that you would grant them all because you believe if you’re living right then everyone else must too and wouldn’t abuse those powers in any way to hurt any innocent person, would you be okay with that?

I have nothing to hide, so I go about life normally.

The Mob, OTOH, had him dead to rights as an in-the-closet homosexual who blackmailed other closeted homosexuals to gain all the power he had. Any other FBI director wouldn’t have been working for a powerless Attorney General because the AG would have had his own file on Hoover and kept his closeted behind in check.

D., enjoy your life being in Orwell’s “1984″ when they can actually televise what you do and when you do it, just like Winston Smith got told when to get up and do his morning exercises before going to work.