i wonder when i have last used the “you’re obviously black” in connection with “you don’t understand”.

anyways, i must concede you one: i truely can’t jump.

ms.martin –

You said:

Barack Obama should not give speeches that bring to the national stage that bring forth the shortcomings of one group and not bother to give speeches to other groups equally recognizing their failings.

But wouldn’t that also meet the overly simplified implicit definition of pandering being thrown around here? And what if he is in no position to speak on the failings of the other group? Part of the reason Obama can speak on this issue is because he happens to be a Black man who grew up without a father (who I’m sure he would have liked to have had around). Whereas I doubt, for example, the Chinese community would take kindly to him talking about their shortcomings at length, given that he’s not Chinese.

I am no fan of airing out dirty laundry for the sake of airing out dirty laundry/appearances of being above the community (hence my disdain for Bill Cosby’s recent rantings) and when I heard of the speech I didn’t want to listen to or read it because I had just recovered from the AIPAC speech (which pissed me off quite a bit, the very very first time that’s happened with this candidate) and was not in the mood. But then I came to this blog, which I currently enjoy and respect, and I read some of the responses to the speech and found they were so over the top negative that it made me think “something is off here”. So I read the transcript of the speech to see what the deal was for myself, and honestly, it was not at all as harsh or crucifying as some people here are making it out to be. It’s actually one of the better, fairer and sincere speeches I’ve heard on the issue given by a public official.

Those of you who weren’t fans of the speech and are subsequently comparing Barack’s critiques of the Black community with Bill Cosby’s are, in my opinion, so far off base it’s not even funny. For one thing, Bill Cosby probably thinks “Barack Hussein Obama” is way way way to “ethnic/urban” a name and that if Barack REALLY wants to make something of himself he should change his name to…oh let’s say William…just sayin’.

Here You Go

I do not think that people are defending deadbeat dads nor denying that they exist. I resent them. The effects of this on the children and the burden on the mother is not fair.

Many speak about this and it is a predictable conversation. It is surely not a black conservative conversation. I avoided the local community center out here in Brooklyn on Saturday in favor of holding a cookout for fathers. I really did not feel like sitting through yet another talk about absentee black fathers. It was Father’s Day weekend, I prefered to celebrate the amazing black fathers. I had a tremendous turnout.

I am a womanist, black womanist. I have never witnessed (personally) a black man abandon his family. I had my father and saw strong male rolemodels in my grandfathers, uncles, cousins, family friends, friend’s fathers and neighbors.

The stats are there but they are a lot more to many of these statistics.

Nonetheless, I work effortessly speaking about the issues that occur in the black community (even though I know they are not exclusive to us). I am not denying the issue of too many absentee fathers, I am rejecting the political manner by which this was done.

I also despise the fact that yet again the absentee black father is the face of black fatherhood rather than my dad and so many others.

Without putting words in my mouth,
you said it, you don’t understand.

b-serious

All things addressed being true, it is still not the issue for me. You’re entitled to your opinion and me to mine and I will try and overlook you telling me how I should receive the speech and form judgments of Obama. The statement above really sums it up for me.

That being said, I don’t know why so many are missing the point of the statement above and proceed to arguing the merits of the statements in the speech rather than addressing his attempt to publicly chastise a particular group or agreeing that it was political and then trying to justify with the fact that the statements are true.

They are two separate issues.

I will thank you not to tell me that I can’t decide what to do with my vote and for what reasons.

Also, surely you can’t believe that any of us condone absentee fathers or self-destructive behavior that cripples the black community and other communities.

So let me try this again: Barack Obama should not give speeches that bring to the national stage that bring forth the shortcomings of one group and not bother to give speeches to other groups equally recognizing their failings. When he does this, it is clear that there was an objective. PERIOD.

IT IS VERY SIMPLE.

“the internalized racism “we” have where we not only think it’s acceptable to have the EXTRA BURDEN of “structural inequality” et al but feel not only that it’s a noble thing to succeed “IN SPITE OF” it but that “we” should do just that. . .”

Success “in spite of” is a necessity when a black man’s got mouths to feed. Especially when having those kids was his CHOICE in the first place.

He has NO choice but to overcompensate for societal failures. He has no excuse to abandon his family. There’s nothing noble in that. It’s what he’s supposed to do. I’ts what a single mother does all the time.

We can list the sacrifices single mothers make on a daily basis. But we often struggle to find similar sacrifices from the fathers in those same situations.

I’ll fight for brothas who are kept away from their kids because of an unjust prison system or unfair family laws. I’ll speak out against unemployment and wage gaps that make it hard for a black man to provide for his family.

But the black community needs to draw a line in the sand with some of these brothas. And my line is drawn at “choice.” I will not waste time and effort on a brotha who willingly chooses to abandon his family. I’d rather spend that same time and effort helping the single mother and kids the father left behind.

The black community must ask itself whether the number of black men who willingly abandon their families is higher than we’d like to admit.

This doesn’t let the government off the hook. But you can do both. You can fight for a fair shake and hold black men accountable at the same time.

So my main interest is the truth behind the numbers. If someone tells me that 70% of black children are born out of wed-lock and that the majority of our black babies have no fathers in their lives, then I first have to identify the problem before I get to the solution.

What accounts for these numbers?

Are the statistics true?

If so, what percentage of absent fathers are absent for reasons beyond their control?

If we can focus on those issues then we’ll have something to work with. We can fight for the rights of those kept away from their children and throw the book at those who willingly abandon their families.

now, certainly, you get it all. you get what blacks say and mean, and you get what whites say and mean.

ok, in my world it’s all a wee bit more complicated. i do understand what was said here, i just happen to disagree.

not being black must be the reason.

We weren’t the ones the target of the pander. Mr. Obama knew exactly what he was doing.

It worked.
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so, in the end, obama wins over a white guy who anyways thinks him to be a good candidate.
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Congratulations on your whiteness, as you tell us how he was not negative.

I suggest you go to the Chicago Tribune or any other paper that carried the story of Obama’s speech and read the post from many of your fellow white folks who were impressed by how Obama spoke truth to power to the Black men in our community who needed to hear the truth. How he was impressive, forthright, truthful, said what needed to be said, all the while not plucking that plank out of their eyes.

I sat amazed at the arrogance and condescending attitudes of SOME people when referring to others they deem as less (inferior) to them (superior) when referring to responsibility.

You have read most of the posts to that blog, yet have you not comprehended the responses from a Black perspective?

I can’t go there with you because evidently you just don’t get it and no matter how much many continue to try and communicate that to you, you just don’t understand. That is why there will always be two Americas, one black and one white, and why Obama actually did choose to pander to get votes from people who appreciate him confirming that misconceived opinions about Black folks, but who still will not vote for him.

As BPM said, lets see him give “responsibilty” speeches in the BPM mentioned and see how he does with that!

now that we have that settled, i’d like to remind you that color was only an issue in my comment you refer to insofar as that i, as a white man, could relate to what obama said. the problems he spoke about are (oh, again) no exclusives for blacks.

and i could relate to what he said for how he said it. i did see the criticism, and i did not see him as being negative, but quite the contrary. i’m quite happy to repeat: there was the yes we can in it all over.

and i think the fact that a normal guy who just happens to be white sees himself in that speech might possibly show that he was not pandering to the white conservatives. in the very worst case they would anyway just see their preconceived ideas confirmed, not enough to make them vote him.

so, in the end, obama wins over a white guy who anyways thinks him to be a good candidate.

i don’t think obama counted on winning any klansies, i don’t think he was pandering, pandering would not work anyways here and i don’t think that obama is stupid.

The problem with all that “regardless of structural inequality” is the tacit acceptance of it. That’s the last thing a politician should be floating.

And all this is old news. When was the Million Man March again??

That’s right. Don’t credit “Black conservatives” for having a focus on manhood/fatherhood and self-help. I don’t know why folks act like they don’t know what’s really going on here.

P6 is about the only person to get close to the real issue of the internalized racism “we” have where we not only think it’s acceptable to have the EXTRA BURDEN of “structural inequality” et al but feel not only that it’s a noble thing to succeed “IN SPITE OF” it but that “we” should do just that, leaving the “structural inequality” in tact and, worse, that none of us should show no ill effects of it.

But let me reiterate, especially in a “post-racial” era with this “post-racial” campaign, THE LAST THING a politician should ever do is what Obama did.

Again, he didn’t do that when he was in front a Native American audience even though he said they were “doing worse” on every indicator. He damn sure didn’t do it with respect to White Americans, not even the “bitter” White folks…

No. He painted them as VICTIMS. He made EXCUSES for them and NEVER insisted that they take any “personal responsibility” for their situation. Instead of blaming anything on them, he placed the blame external to poor – working – middle class Whites.

Anger over welfare and affirmative action helped forge the Reagan Coalition. Politicians routinely exploited fears of crime for their own electoral ends. Talk show hosts and conservative commentators built entire careers unmasking bogus claims of racism while dismissing legitimate discussions of racial injustice and inequality as mere political correctness or reverse racism.

Just as black anger often proved counterproductive, so have these white resentments distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle class squeeze – a corporate culture rife with inside dealing, questionable accounting practices, and short-term greed; a Washington dominated by lobbyists and special interests; economic policies that favor the few over the many.

For some reason, Barack Obama has a problem with telling anybody but Black people that they should “squarely face [their] own complicity in [their] condition.”

Isn’t this a catch-22? He’s made this same basic speech in similar venues before. Wouldn’t a decision not to give that kind of talk in that venue this time be politically motivated?

You finally answered my question. From many of your comments I assumed before knowing that obviously you were a white person and your comments bare that out.

From your perspective as a white person, you did not see anything wrong in what Obama did, yet I am going to wait to hear his speeches to the communits BPM mentioned.

BPM to all your comments: AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!

And, yes, it was opportunistic and Obama should be criticized for it. I wouldn’t necessarily call it a “pander” because I think he honestly believes what he’s saying. But the timing seemed politically motivated. And it appears as though the speech was designed to serve three objectives:

1. To reinforce his centrist, all-American/”he’s one of us” bona fides;

2. To serve as a direct rebuttal to his critics’ charges of elitism (a central theme being: “I didn’t have it easy growing up and neither did Michelle”); and

3. To strengthen his status as a family man, particularly among female voters of all races (his speech can be seen as being just as pro-black single mother as it was anti-black absent father).

So I agree that the speech was politically opportunistic. Either he or someone from his staff must have thought this would be a good time for some tough love. Obama should have been aware of how the media would spin this. In that sense, his speech was a bit sloppy and reckless.

HOWEVER. . .

I respectfully disagree with those who feel that this somehow disqualifies Obama as a viable candidate. The punishment doesn’t fit the crime as far as I’m concerned.

If it did, there’d be much worse transgressions to hold him accountable for than this; and much more cause to have never supported him in the first place (take, for example, Obama’s centrist position on affirmative action).

But while I agree with some of the criticism I also agree that his speech is nothing new. Thus, I don’t get the sense of shock that I see in this thread. He’s said this stuff like this before. And I think many of us factored his Cosby-like leanings into our initial considerations of his campaign before before we decided to support him in the first place.
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On a separate note, I think it’s important that we not automatically dismiss the black conservative view on this issue fatherhood.

Notwhitstanding Obama’s speech, the issue of black fatherhood is very serious. And, while I abhor the demonization and scapegoating of the black boogey-man, I have little interest in defending deadbeat fathers (particularly those in my own community).

There are many principled black folk who don’t see this as the demonization of black men. Rather, they see this as the protection of black children and the support of black women who’ve been overburdened with the responsibility of raising families all by themselves.

I agree with the person who said it’s a matter of recognizing the millions of black fathers who DO take responsibility for their children. I’m all for tough love. But tough love means very little without positive examples and positive influence. Young black men should be held accountable, but they should also have goals with which to aspire.

Finally. . . we’ve got to have better arguments. Regardless of which side we fall on, I think our arguments have grown stale and hopelessly predictable on this subject.

Just last night, Marc Lamont Hill lost a debate (in my opinion) to Bill O’Reilly on the subject of absent fathers because he could not avoid two very simple arguments:

1. Regardless of structural inequality, fatherhood is a CHOICE — no one forces you to be a father, that’s a choice that you make on your own; and

2. Regardless of structural inequality, there are millions of black men who handle their responsibilities and don’t abandon their children.

It may very well be true that black conservatives go too far in their criticism and black progressives don’t go far enough. Many conservatives refuse to acknowledge the structural shortcomings of unemployment, lack of resources and assistance. But, if we are to get to discussing solutions, black progressives should do a better job at acknowledging that this problem does exist.

Politics aside. . . political scapegoating aside. . . we have to diagnose the illness before we can treat it. And that takes a certain amount of soul searching that we haven’t fully come to grips with as of yet.

The Fox News/O’Reilly debate was too predictable. Marc Lamont Hill downplayed the illness while focusing on the solution. Not surprisingly, O’Reilly downplayed the solutions while emphasizing the illness.

I fall somewhere in the middle. I can’t stand cultural stereotypes and the demonization of black men. But my empathy only goes as far as that father’s willingness to take responsibility for his family. That black mother and black baby are jumping through similar hurdles of inequality and oppression. . . but they don’t get the luxury to leave when times get rough.

Don’t ge me wrong. . . we should do everything in our power to support the brothas that DO take responsibility. We should fight on their behalf and hold them up as an example for other men in our community.

But I have NO love or respect for a man who willingly abandons his family. I won’t waste time and effort defending his, yes, excuses.

At that point, my efforts are better spent helping the family get back on it’s feet than tending to an absent father’s bruised ego.
………………………….

So, while Obama is justifiably criticized for his approach, I’ve yet to see someone address the content and truthfullness of his statement.

Forget the politics at play for a second. . .just ask: IS IT TRUE?

Are the statistics true? Does anyone have any statistics or studies to disprove Obama or Cosby’s assertions? Does anyone have any studies to disprove the conventional wisdom (a la Janks Morton’s What Black Men Think)?

If so, I’d like to see them.

Because that will help us shape a solution and strategy for our community.

You said it all. This was a speech I am sure his handlers told him he had to make to appeal to white conservatives.

Now when will he make that speech about white folks who are holding onto their perceived entitlement of whiteness because they don’t have an education, skills, jobs, etc… but have the audacity to talk about the inadequacies of other folks (Black) while ignoring their own high rates of the same societal ills.

I am going to wait for that speech, but I won’t be holding my breath. Obama has determined that he has the Black vote and doesn’t have to pander to us, so in his own way, we will be the bogeyman for the entitlement-prone white man who lives his life thinking that his superiority trumps all, and Barack Obama is playing their game, don’t forget he is half white and has heard it all before. If he demonizes Black folks he won’t be called on it because he is Black so he can give out those dog whistles that Black folks can hear but are choosing to ignore.

I am truly disgusted.

If O starts reading individual groups, he may as well endorse hillary. I pray he doesn’t single out Blacks again (because he can get away with it), because too many people have been discouraged, even though I know this was not his conscious intent. I pray he can redeem himself with you & the others who have been offended. We are racially sensitive especially since we are bombarded with insidious racism on a daily basis.It hurts worse when it comes from family. I’m glad you let him know how you feel via his website. I think he would want to know. There are times when we will have to let him know, “We love you and we need you to clean it up.” He will be the president of the whole nation, but he will be the 1st one who might really care about us. And I believe he does care about us, even though he made a mistake. Keep speaking truth to power.