Jack & Jill Politics

not buying it either, truthseeker. not in the least.

On Huffington, I found this dead on comment on how Lanny would respond to the Edwards endorment


FogBelter

Has Lanny Davis chimed in on this endorsement? He would probably say something like ...





--Now everyone knows the respect I have for Senator Obama, but lets be clear here ... just because Senator Edwards stands beside him at a gathering of four or five people and says nice things ... maybe even invokes the word "endorse" itself ... that doesn't need to be considered as an official "endorsement" of Senator Obama ... I know ... I know ... there are a lot of passionate Obama supporters who may ... think ... they heard an endorsement, but from where I am sitting here ... and what I observed ... I would be hard pressed to see an endorsement in Senator Edwards drop by in Michigan ... I respect Senator Obama, you know I do, but we are playing semantic games here when we should be focusing on Senator Clinton's 41 point victory in West Virginia ... and one more thing ...--

..Not buying that.

An ABC survey says that 59% of African-Americans would like to see Hillary as the VP candidate on the Democratic ticket? How can that be?

Just saw this on the Hillary blog comment section. I don't thing it was covered by the MSM..they were busy reporting on the Edwards Endorsement! HA:


6:15 p.m. TONIGHT: Members of Congress To Hold Press Conference On Hillary’s Strong Pro-Choice Record



Clinton National Campaign Co-Chair Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones and other Members of Congress will hold a press conference at 6:15 p.m. EDT tonight to discuss Hillary Clinton’s strong pro-choice record.



Members voicing their support today for Clinton’s advocacy on behalf of a woman’s right to choose include, Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones, Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, Rep. Nita Lowey, Rep. Jane Harman, Rep. Diane Watson, Rep. Diana DeGette, Rep. Doris Matsui, Rep. Laura Richardson, Rep. Carolyn Maloney, Rep. Louise Slaughter, Rep. Allyson Schwartz, Rep. Kirsten Gillibrand, Rep. Corrine Brown, Rep. Yvette Clarke, Rep. Darlene Hooley, Rep. Lucille Roybal-Allard, Rep. Linda Sanchez, Rep. Tammy Baldwin, Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, Rep. Hilda Solis, Rep. Nydia Velazquez, Rep. Betty Sutton, Rep. Grace Napolitano and Rep. Shelley Berkley.



Wednesday, May 14



6:15 p.m. EDT



Members of Congress Discuss Hillary’s Strong Pro-Choice Record



Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee

Second Floor Conference Room

430 South Capitol Street

Washington, DC

honey01. Yes I saw that. I didn't know whether to . . . umm let me let it go. I agree with you Chris Matthews blew me away. I didn't expect him of all people to be the voice of reason either.

Anybody watching MSNBC? Pat Buchannan just lost his marbles again. He has been moderately tame the last couple of weeks. They just kinds let him go off on 15 minute tangent (Black people are only voting for Obama because he is Black, West Virginians are not racist, Geraldine Ferarro was right, yada yada). I never thought I would live to see the day where Chris Matthews would be the "voice of reason" just now in a three way conversation between Matthews, Buchanan, and Andrea Mitchell.

Truthseeker - last night her campaign manager alluded to the fact that it would probably go to the convention. So you are right on that.

Ok I found the guidance re. helping to pay off campaign debts for opponents. *Obama has not said he would do this btw. Media spin at this point.


Obama cannot under federal law assume direct responsibility for Clinton's debts because that would amount to an illegal contribution, far above contribution limits.



There are, however, a number of other alternatives. Obama could, for example, send out a solicitation in Clinton's behalf to his own donors and to other donor lists, asking for contributions to be directed to her campaign. He could, in addition, hold a joint fundraiser with the money

With Edwards' endorsement maybe more supers will not only endorse but switch to Obama by week's end to nullify any designs Hillary has on seating FL & MI or changing the delegates to 2210. Even so, she'll still take it to the Convention under the pretense that delegates can change their minds.


I am sure she will NEVER drop out. This is going to the convention and even after that, she will continue to make trouble. I don't know how Dems didn't see this coming.

Rules posted on Daily Kos:


Joint Fundraising Notice

General Rule



In addition to any notice required under "Disclaimer Notices on Communications" and "Solicitation Notices," participants must include a joint fundraising notice with every solicitation for contributions. The notice must contain the following information:



• The names of all participants, regardless of whether they are registered political committees or unregistered organizations;



• The allocation formula;



• A statement informing contributors that they may designate contributions for a particular participant; and



• A statement that the allocation formula may change if any contributor makes a contribution that exceeds the amount he or she may lawfully give to any participant. 102.17(c)(2)(i).



Special Situations



In two situations, participants must include additional information in the joint fundraising notice:



• If a participant is engaging in the joint fundraiser to pay off outstanding debts, the notice must state that the allocation formula may change if the participant receives enough funds to pay its debts. (emphasis mine)



• If, under State law, any unregistered participant is permitted to receive contributions prohibited under the Act, the notice must say that such contributions will be given only to participants that may legally accept them. 102.17(c)(2)(ii

Yeah, it's pretty ugly over on the NARAL board. I posted a positive comment...It looked so tiny and lonesome LOL

teacher,


I was just about to post that for you. I was just reading it over at dailykos

OK. I read more asbout it on Daily Kos Dean's press release says:


"The fund will allow both candidates to raise money for the Party, forming one joint fundraising committee account that will accept money for the nominee’s primary and general election and for the DNC."



and I feel better. It's "allegedly" for the DNC, which is low on $.



Edwards is endorsing Obama! I'm glad he has the spine to show some leadership. It's hard for me to understand that if they are really for the success and progress of the party, why won't they show more leadership. I think the floodgates will open after the final contest on June 3rd. KKKlinton insists that Fl & MI be seated just the way they voted. Why don't white people consider her to be a cheater? Marion Jones is in jail for cheating, and Barry Bond is being continuously harassed...Why is it ok for KKKlinton to cheat and not be censured by the party? I'm not going to be able to donate to them to cheat Black people, even if he is going to win in spite of it. I think I'm going to email them and let them know.



And as far as Obama not wanting us to support 528's or whatever the right # is, I understand him and I disagree. They are going to tell scurrilous lies about him. I think there needs to be someone to tell the TRUTH about McCryptkeeper.

Good read.


1) John Edwards will endorse Barack Obama.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/14/john-edwards-endorsing-ob_n_101749.html



2) GOP Adviser: This is '94 in Reverse. We're Pathetic

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/14/gop-adviser-this-is-94-in_n_101756.html

Regarding the Obama Clinton fundrasing thing -- He cannot give Senator Clinton money donated to his campaign. That is the law. So don't worry your money cannot be transferred to her. The can ask him to ask his supporters to send her donations which is entirely voluntary or he can help her schedule some type of fundraiser on her behalf. Again -- he can ask his supporters to help her out. But he is not able to give her any money donated to him. I will see if I can find that specific rule and will post.

All - NARAL just endorsed Senator Obama for President and the Clinton supporters are pitching a ROYAL fit. They could use some positive posts right about now. It is REALLY bad. Get the word out if you can.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nancy-keenan/why-naral-pro-choice-amer_b_101708.html

teacher,


I think that deal is between the DNC and each campaign. I believe the funds will be separate...but someone who knows for sure can confirm.

Friends, please help me calm down. I just heard on cnn that Howard Dean is prepared to announce a joint fundraising plan between the Obama and kkklinton campaigns. Then they show her continuing to talk about how she isn't going anywhere....Wolf Blitzer is interviewing her and she commented how she (my paraphrase) thinks Obama is too idealistic or doesn't know how it the system works. she said you can't just go hold hands and hope that things happen. What an insult! I'm afraid I won't be donating to Obama any longer if she is going to get any of the $.I understand that he has to do what he has to do, and I have to do what I have to do. If she ends up as his VP, I'm truly done. I'm going to email his website. What a bummer!

Is President Bill Clinton channeling former Alabama Governor George Wallace...


I have always wondered, but after reading this analysis, it's hard to doubt it.

Val,
I'm just curious.



Truth,

I don't care who's doing it. That sort of personal information shouldn't be compromised.



By ANY candidate.

d,


you ask a lot of questions but never answer any. I want to know what it says about Barack that people in UK, Canada, France, the Netherlands, Republicans, Hillary supporters use his phonebank tool?

I wouldn't know. Rev Wright is not running for the President of the United States and is free to do whatever he sees fit. That is what makes this country great.

What's this about?


Jeremiah Wright's 'Trumpet'

Craig wrote: Hillary Rodham Nixon is running for a spot on John McCain's ticket.


It seems like a good fit for her actions (and her approach to policy) and I have thought about this too. But -- if she does that, then it seems to me that all the Democrats/Obama would have to do is run an intense ad campaign with clips of her promising to work so hard for the Democratic nominee and have some voice over about how she will promise anything but then do the opposite, and how voters can't trust what she promises.



And in general, seems to me that if she moves over to the Repub side, the "making nice" gloves can come right off. It's not Obama at that point it's the whole party. Obama can't beat on her but the party maybe can. But it won't do that as long as she remains in the fold. Once she moves out of it .... I would guess all the withheld stuff will come flooding out.



Of course, I could be wrong. Overall I tend to vastly overestimate the outrage at bald-faced lies and betrayals in this culture.

NARAL endorsed Obama.


Let the ' Judas' Comments begin from the Hillpatine lackeys.

There are lots of folks I wish were alive to witness this time in US history. My parents and an old boyfriend come to mind.


In that line of thinking, wouldn't it be wonderful to hear Ed Bradley's commentary on this whole primary season? Would'ntcha just love to hear Ed interview Barack?



Just reminiscin'...

Felicia,
That's fine.



Truth,

I try really hard to limit the "terrorist" designation to people who really deserve it. Hamas does, based on their past actions. I'm not certain if the designation would be appropriate for every Palestinian; as such, I didn't refer to them all as terrorists.

From the NY Times:


"The Democrat, Travis Childers, a local courthouse official, pulled together a coalition of blacks, who turned out heavily, and old-line “yellow dog” Democrats, to beat his Republican opponent, Greg Davis, the mayor of Southaven, a Memphis suburb. With 99 percent of the precincts reporting, the vote was 54 percent for Mr. Childers to 46 percent for Mr. Davis."

d.,


I watched the al Jazeera video, and I see nothing wrong with what these young men are doing.



If it's legal for people to phonebank from other nations--and I'm hoping the Obama campaign has already checked to make sure it is--what these men are doing is noble.



They say they want peace in the Middle East, and they think Obama can bring it about. These young men were born into apartheid. They can never leave Gaza without special permission. I can't imagine being forced to live in an overcrowded land only twice the size of D.C., knowing this is where I must live and die.



I hope one day Israelis and Palestinians will be able to live side by side and freely travel between borders. The National Review, and you by proxy, are doing nothing but fearmongering.



A great, eye-opening movie that I would recommend for all JJP posters is Paradise Now (2005). It depicts life in the West Bank, which is supposed to be slightly better than Gaza, so you can imagine how bad it is for Gazans.

@ d,


...People from all over the world are phonebanking for Obama. Republicans and Hillary supporters also phonebank against him..... they probably say unflattering things. Instead of putting their names down, they type names like "Operation Chaos" against their list of calls made.



So, what does that say about Obama that all these people phonebank for, or against him?



You ARE insinuating they're terrorists. Like I said, People from the UK and Europe also phonebank as well as Republicans and Hillary supporters.

Felicia,
I'm not insinuating that the people making the calls are terrorists.



But-and this is a hypothetical-if I get a call from one of these people about Obama, and I tell them to kick rocks, what's to stop them from calling in a few of their friends to "adjust" my thinking?



And the actual report came from Al Jazeera.

Re the popular vote..


Wolf did scenarios on The Situation Room last week and he showed that even if Florida and Michigan were counted as-is, Barack would still be ahead in every metric. They had to estimate the popular vote numbers for the caucus states.



I'll see if I can find it on redlasso.



B-serious is right. The Clinton campaign is stalling for time. They know the numbers don't favour them in ANY scenario. But they keep stalling for time. Each time we get to a crossroads, they come out and offer another improbable metric as why they should be allowed to continue.



The latest carrot has been the 2209 number. It sets the groundwork so that when Obama reaches 2025 in a couple weeks, they will be able to say it doesn't count, and justify staying in the race until the convention. Also, Obama's been posting a running delegate tally on his page. The 2209 makes him seem farther away from the finish line and imply there's no way for him to reach 2209.



Democrats may not realize they've been had until it's too late. They've been lulled into a false sense of security by Hillary's constant spinning and the carrots.

d.,
It's their dime. If they want to phonebank for Obama, what's the problem? Oh--I get it--they're Palestinians so they MUST be terrorists.



For the record, I trust nothing coming from a Republican rag mag.

Excuse my language, but....


What the fuck?



Palestinians in Gaza Are Phonebanking for Barack Obama



Anyone see a problem with this?

B-Serious and Angela - I was there with you last week. lolol
However, I wouldn't worry about what Hillary is saying at this point or what posts she insists on attempting to move. It will not work. So her saying Barack has to meet the 2209 number or that FL and MI should be seated at without penalty is irrelevent. I watched MSNBC last night and the the it was clear that the pundits, Russert etc. mentally threw their hands up. YOU CAN'T REACH ANYONE IN HILLARYLAND!. You just can't. No amount of logic will make a difference so what should Barack do? The same thing he is doing now, preparing for the Nov fight with John McCain.



I now think it is fine if Hillary wants to pursue her right to stay in the race. It doesn't make any difference and she is spending her own money. Barack gained what . . 4 more super delegates today? Let Hillary do her thing . . eventually her balloon will start losing air and she will come down to the real world. As long as she does not go negative against Barack -- she can do this. More power to her.



We also have to think about the remaining states that REALLY want to vote. They want to participate in this process. That too is a plus. I have been reading a lot lately and folks are truly excited. In short . . . keep your head up. It will be over soon.



Blessings.

anonymous 8:28,


actually, I'd settle for the capability of using a cast iron skillet unfettered against a large number of her surrogates.

Who is the dude who keeps showing up behind Hillary at every speech wearing the boxing gloves?

I challenge everybody here to pick up the phone and call a friend somewhere else in the US from where they live and ask their opinion about last night's result and come back here an report that any of them said something other than something like, "Of course she won big. It's WEST VIRGINIA, silly."


Racists in West VA (and not all white people in WVa. are racist) are proud to be racists.



Just ask them.

-Republicans aren't THAT stupid


::



Yes they are. That desperate too.



Terrible combination.

Of course I won't be doing any kicking, I'll just take Rikyrah's advice and "have a peaceful day!"

I understand that HRC refuses to go away, but does anyone ever have those days when you just have to tune it all out because all you have left is a strong desire to run into her somewhere on the campaign trail and kick her in the shins?

Hillary Clinton's pitch to donors and superdelegates:


"HE'S BLACK, DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND!"



"HE'S BLAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKK!"

"Hillary Rodham Nixon is running for a spot on John McCain's ticket."


"I've been saying this for months."



"She will go all the say to Denver, forced a brokered convention, lose, and give the Dem. party a big old fuck you by hitching onto her friend McCain's ticket."



"Republicans will welcome her because they now know she's one of them."



"It's the only way McCain has a chance and it's the only way Hillary Rodham Nixon can get back to the White House."



-Republicans aren't THAT stupid

Only racists get offended when they're called out for being racists.

s.,


General election moderates and independents who are not racists won't recall because no one is talking about them.

Ok, again....Obama did campaign in WV. Maybe not as hard as others....but he did.


He ran ads, wrote an op-ed in the paper, appeared in Charleston, WV (their paper also endorsed him).



So I would not say he didn't bother to campaign there.

Calling fellow Dems racist for not voting for Obama will backfire on Obama in the general election.
-------------







Hillary is the one calling white voters "racist," not Obama. Hillary is the one threatening that white voters won't vote for Obama because he's black. Obama's not the one making that argument. Hillary's camp is the one making the argument that only blacks and eggheads are voting for Obama, when everyone knows that's simply not true. So Hillary is the one who needs to be taken to task, not Obama, because the Clinton camp has been the ones, from the very beginning, injecting race into the discussion. Hillary is trying to poison the well and the designated scapegoat will be "white voters." You don't think for a minute after Obama loses that the Clinton surrogates won't be on every CNN and MSNBC and FOX blaming white people and their reluctance to vote for a black man as the real reason why he lost?

Calling fellow Dems racist for not voting for Obama will backfire on Obama in the general election.


People do not take kindly to being called racist and are not likely to come back and "do the right thing" and vote for Obama after the self-declared, morally superior Obama supporters have insulted them in a most egregious and personal way.



Obama will be the nominee, so how does it benefit him to so split the party? 64% of Dems want Hillary to stay in the race. Does Obama really think he doesn't need white voters?



General election moderates and independents will recoil at the accusation that those who do not support Obama are racist.

From what I understand on the Daily Kos piece, Abramoff helped create some loophole with the Mariana Islands that allowed sweatshops to flourish. The Tan Family of Hong Kong exploited the loophole and they have a bunch of sweat shops. They gave a bunch of money to Hillary. I guess somebody could explain it better than I can.

@ Craig
"Hillary Rodham Nixon is connected to Abramoff and sweatshops. She's got serious problems. But if she runs with McCain, no one will fully vet her on this issue."



Can you explain the Hillary-Abramoff connection, as well as the sweat shops?

I'm with blackstocking....I will never cast a vote for Clinton.

HC's people want to reward white folks for being racist. Her bragging about getting the vote of the white racist voting bloc is truly absurd. And disturbing.


Here is the bottom line for me. I've lived most of my life under Republican presidents. And yeah, things have been rough for black people during most of that time. Still, most of us have survived and many, many of us have thrived.



Sooo, no, I will not be scared by predictions about McCain and 4 more years of GWB. My world goes on no matter who is in the Whiet House. But there ain't a snowball's chance in heck that I will vote for the the white racists preferred candidate.

smoothie, it's over. And the RNC hasn't attacked Hillary all primary season.


It will welcome her into the fold come September.

If its not over, then why is it, on the RNC's homepage, they have absoloutely 0 attacks against Hillary? Clearly the RNC believes the Democrats have there nominiee.


On the very first page they go at Barack. Ive checked it up and down, and at no point do they mention Hillary.

Craig, I pray you are right....but, as I keep hearing its not over yet!


Anyway, saw this at the Boston Globe.....something to keep in mind.





"Finance law may keep Clinton in

Email|Print|Single Page| Text size – + May 13, 2008

Hillary Clinton may have a financial incentive to remain in the presidential race for a while. And she has Senator John McCain to thank for it.





Campaign Notebook Finance law may keep Clinton in



Clinton has loaned her struggling campaign $11 million in recent months. A little-known provision of a 2002 campaign-finance law cosponsored by McCain prevents candidates who drop out of the race from raising money after the nominating conventions to repay themselves for personal loans.



If Clinton fails to come up with the funds by the Democratic convention in August and she fails to gain the nomination, she will be out the $11 million. If she quits before then, she may find it hard to get people to keep giving cash so she can retire her debt.



That may ratchet up pressure on Clinton to cut a deal with rival Barack Obama, who is keeping the door open to possibly helping pay her debt, which also includes more than $10 million in unpaid bills to vendors and consultants.



"Helping to pay off the debt would certainly be a clear signal of Obama's desire to bring the two candidates together," said Anthony Corrado, professor at Colby College in Waterville, Maine."

Check this out:


Karl Rove Blames Obama's WV loss on the Klan



Sort of. If anyone else had said this, there would be blood.



I love West Virginia. I think it is a neat state with a lot of really neat people. So, I don't want to say this in a disparaging way. But, remember, you did have a lot of Klan activity. Senator Byrd, when he was a young man was active in the Klu Klux Klan. It was a way up in the politics of the state. So, there is a little bit of the old South deep in the hearts, you know, of the hills and hollows of West Virginia.

Barack Obama will be the Democratic nominee.


We need to relax.

to andyfrombrooklyn;


re Oregon....its 90% white with a household median income of approx. 42,500 a year and 1.9% black. 85% have less than a 4yr college education.



Obama is leading in the polls by approx 12 pts. according to realclearpolitics.



Wisconsin's demographics are fairly close to Oregon's.



I don't understand why the Obama campaign doesn't keep making these points to the media. Maybe they are and the media chooses not to mention this in their constant spinning.

I'm not sure if it's a show-stopper for him, especially if he's going to continue to write them off. But it is a cause for concern.


::



Only among those who are wishing for it to be a cause for concern.



Those of us who have eyes know that Barack Obama has done very well among white working class voters outside of central Appalachia.



See: North Dakota, Nevada, Washington, Kansas, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Maine, Colorado, Idaho, Nebraska, Alaska, Virginia, and Vermont.



He hasn't written "them" off. Sorry to intrude with facts, but sometimes, I just can't help myself.



Hillary Rodham Nixon is connected to Abramoff and sweatshops. She's got serious problems. But if she runs with McCain, no one will fully vet her on this issue.



Republicans: the party of cover-ups and torture.

Notice how when a black person gets something he's stolen it, when a white person gets something- she's earned it?


They started running for the Presidency at the same time, had to start from scratch, and even though Hillary had a brand where Obama had nothing... he's stealing.



The Clintons spew this codified racist language and leverage it to whites- those rural self segregating whites.



Now she is trying to CHANGE THE RULES. I hope the rules committee upholds the rules all of the candidates signed off of. But the truth is the Clintons have been making the ignorant believe this is an election by the popular vote.

Well, in every state that has a portion of Appalachia in it (except VA and NC -- offset by larger numbers of other demographics that bode well for Obama) has not gone very well for Obama. And WV is wholly in Appalachia. So we know it's not a "white people problem," it's an Appalachia problem. Because white people in WV are different from white people in Oregon. But Hillary and her peeps are framing it as a "white people" problem and continously repeating that BLACKS are voting for Obama and BLACKS are turning out in huge numbers and BLACKS are the reason that Obama is going over. And they are hoping the "typical" white person will vote their racial interests and stop voting for Obama.


Basically Hillary is shanking Obama but framing white people.





Hillary may want to jump on the Republican bandwagon but she might have to fight Lieberman on that one (lol). That's why Obama's VP choice will be interesting, as the Dems will unveil their VP before the Republicans. If Obama chooses a white man, John McCain can/will choose a white woman (here's where Hillary may come in -- whether Hillary is the choice or not) to pick up all the disgruntled white women supporting Hillary. But if Obama chooses a white woman, McCain may also choose a white woman (again, here comes Hillary --- her supporters will want a white woman at the top of the ticket, not holding up a black man's coattails) --- they still go over to McCain).



These are interesting times but there's no doubt that Hillary Clinton will affect the outcome of the race, whether she's on the ticket or not.

to be-serious


I'm so angry with the party leaders for letting Hillary get away with this constant changing of the goal posts. Although, I did hear Donna Brazile say that if Obama reaches the 2025 number, he will be the nominee because those are the rules.



Just don't know anymore....I'm totally disgusted with the Democractic party. As I said before, if Obama doesn't get this nomination my interest in politics is done. My enthusiasm for a candidate has never been this high and at 58 yrs, I doubt I will witness this again in my lifetime.

nquest, the reverend has the right to say and do whatever he pleases. the assumption would be that he would support obama. so as with samantha powers, when a supposed surrogate starts screwing up the campaign message, it is a problem. yes we agree that hillary is a monster and that america is a global terrorist, but that does not mean it is a good idea to state those things in the campaign.

K.Olbermann said something last night that Ive been waiting for forever, and finally' someone pointed out.


"If Hillary lead in Pledged Delegates,SD's, Pop. Vote, States won, Money Raised etc. somehow I doubt the MSM would be giving Barack the same pass Hillary is getting."



Why is this not the narrative that not only democrats, but the MSM as a whole not discussing? This is more then a legitamate arguement to have. There actually people out there (even in Barack's camp) who who still say "never count a Clinton out." This is a tired statement the MSM throws out there.

She's done, and I dont care if she wants to go by Hillary, Hillary Rodham, or HRC, the bottom line is she cant win, and most everyone knows it.

d. you need to read my posts

Hillary Rodham Nixon is running for a spot on John McCain's ticket.


McCain supposedly congratulated HRC on her victory. I may have missed it but one of the news channels mentioned it and seemed like they were going to entertain discussion on the McCain-Clinton relationship (McCain apparently hasn't congratulated Obama).



Somebody did make a point to note how Clinton said she and her Republican party-mate, John McCain, were ready to be president, etc. while Obama was not.

maureen dowd has another irritating opinion today in which she concludes that obama needs to prevent the appalachian rejection of his candidacy become set in stone. yeah it is obama's fault that appalachia is holding on to it's centuries old prejudices. he shouldn't have allowed that to happen...bad obama.

I think it's interesting that Obama really didn't even bother to campaign in WV since his core constituency wasn't there.


OH/PA/WV share the same type of demographic-disaffected workers from industries in decline-and Obama can't seem to win among them.



I'm not sure if it's a show-stopper for him, especially if he's going to continue to write them off. But it is a cause for concern.

What did Obama do to deserve the "I won't vote for him under any circumstances" bs?


The same reason certain Obama supporters have issues with Rev. Wright. It's the "he didn't have to" syndrome. For them, it's he (Obama) didn't have to run so well this year which was supposed to be all about Hillary.





It always comes back to the same thing: he didn't wait his turn.



Yep! And that's the same kind of "not good enough", emotion-laden response people have given regarding Rev. Wright NPC appearance. Obama (along with a number of his supporters) echoed on the media's line. Nobody called Obama on his inaccuracies and inconsistencies...



I say that because I have no use for naked partisanship no matter who the candidate is. To be clear, the basic nature of the criticism against Rev. Wright was "he could have waited."



So I find it rather ironic, hypocritical actually, for anyone to rightly criticize the emotional nature of the attitudes of Democratic voters who have issues with Obama while clinging (Obama pun intended) to emotion-based, media spun (and mimicked) attitudes against Rev. Wright without critically examining the problematic Obama narrative in both of the unparalleled speech/press conference events Obama devoted... NOT THE THE RACE-BAITING the Clintons perpetrated... NOT to anything related to "bitter-gate" or dust-ups about Obama's comments about his grandmother being a "typical white" person... NOT Geraldine Ferraro's comments...



The hypocrisy runs deep because few people ever ventured to say "Obama didn't have to [hold a press conference/speech to berate another "Black man" or demean another "Black man's" point-of-view, etc., subtly or forcefully]."

Hillary Rodham Nixon is running for a spot on John McCain's ticket.


I've been saying this for months.



She will go all the say to Denver, forced a brokered convention, lose, and give the Dem. party a big old fuck you by hitching onto her friend McCain's ticket.



Republicans will welcome her because they now know she's one of them.



It's the only way McCain has a chance and it's the only way Hillary Rodham Nixon can get back to the White House.



That's why the "Hillary first, party second" chants are getting play.



It's all part of the script the Nixons have been writing since February 19 when this race was over. When they put forth their Rethug tactics in full force.



She's not a fighter, she's a soul-less cheat. And she will do anything to get into the White House.



After all, her husband has made too many promises to too many international leaders and corporations to go gently.

a difference between unanimous support by blacks for obama and appalachian whites for clinton is that blacks have been voting for white presidents since they were aloud to vote. including bill clinton. appalachians have never voted for a black president. it is time for appalachians to get on board the train to the 21st century.

low income whites in oregon will go for obama. low income whites voted for obama in wisconsin. no exit polls in caucus states like minnesota, colorado, and washington. guess the whites in the north west see something they don't in appalachia.

it is not about white working class people...it is about appalachia. see the hillary hot spot maps. w.va. and ky. are dead center....and yes it is racism in appalachia and it is disgusting and time for them to grow up.

Hillary is going to stay in the race until the convention, and I think everyone needs to realize and accept that.


She's not staying in the race to get the 08 nomination: she knows she's not going to get it. And it has nothing to do with the black vote, it's that Democrats as a whole have a better chance of picking up seats with Obama at the top of the ticket whether he wins or not.



She's not staying in the race to raise more money: She's $20 mil in the hole and each day she stays in the race she's spending more money. I think she'll end up having to eat that $12 mil she loaned herself.



She's not staying in to prepare for '12: if she is seen as the reason a black man with a good chance of becoming president didn't, I don't know that she'll have a whole lot of support. She may think people will forget by then, but I don't think so.



She's staying in the race because she can and it's personal to her and her supporters. She's on the "Get Back Tour '08" and she's staying in the race to, as the poster above said, poison the well. Make Obama to appear to be an illegitimate candidate (hence the 2209 number) who "stole" the nomination from a qualified nominee because of affirmative action (hence Ferraro's comments). But she can't be seen as the direct cause of his loss. That's why she's pinning it on "hard working white voters". If Obama loses, it's not Hillary's fault...it's just that America wasn't ready for a black president and the Democrats ran a very flawed candidate just to score affirmative action points.



Also, some people think she's trying to worm her way on the ticket. She's not. She's purposely acting like an asshole so he won't ask her to be on the ticket. Therefore when her voters trot off to John McCain, Obama will catch the blame.





She's not doing this to get on the ticket. She's doing all this to destroy Obama.

the popular vote metric is bullshit because of the fact that so many states do caucuses. if they want to use it, they have to revote minnesota. colorado, washington, iowa, and others. obama might not win by the percentages the caucus provided but his popular vote margin WOULD increase. so choose your poison hillbots. the party has chosen delegates and that IS the metric.

the consensus is in. w.va. did not change anything.

the consensus is in. w.va. did not change anything.

@ sepia


Is it just me, or is the MSM blaming Obama because WV didn't vote him? Sure, BO could've campaigned so as not to appear to poo-poo the state, but look at the REASON why WV aren't voting for him: RACE -- an issue which Hillary has been pushing all along! Why hasn't the MSM taken WV to task for racism, and why haven't they taken Clinton to task for race-baiting??



It't not just you, sepia. The MSM is subtely attempting to "blame" Barack for not getting the white-bigot vote.



You have to understand; most of these people are Hillary-crats, and are not only seeing their hero go down in flames, but their careers too. They've known that they could occupy the seats of power so long as political leaders shared the same faces, and came from the same places.



With Barack as president--even as Democratic nominee--there's going to be a great deal of resentment by many whites in the MSM.



Right now, I see their "blaming" Barack for not attracting more white-bigot-voters as mockery. They're saying "well well Mr. Walk-on-Water, you're not as popular as you think".



As Barack progresses, we should look for more parting shots like these.

Having Chris Matthews say that Hillary was "almost the Al Sharpton of White people" ALMOST made last night a net gain.


It's not even that I agree or that it makes sense...but damn if that aint amusing to me.



http://youtube.com/watch?v=HchanK0N3Mg



Or maybe im delirious.



oh and in honor of Dana Milbank



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6Lq771TVm4



C ustomer: "Look, matey, I know a dead parrot when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now."



Pet-shop owner: "No, no he's not dead, he's -- he's resting! Remarkable bird, the Norwegian blue, isn't it, aye? Beautiful plumage!"



-- From "Monty Python's Flying Circus"



11:45 a.m., Melrose Hotel, Foggy Bottom: It's Day 7 of the Clinton Campaign Death Watch -- a full week since the official arbiter of the Democratic primary, Tim Russert, declared the campaign over and Barack Obama the nominee. Hillary Clinton's advisers continue to insist that the candidate's prospects are very much alive, but the press isn't buying it. Exhibit A: There are two press buses waiting at the hotel here for Clinton's trip to her victory rally in West Virginia, but the entire press contingent doesn't quite fill one. It isn't until the entourage arrives at Dulles Airport that Clinton aides learn that the second bus is still idling, empty, at the hotel.



If there is importance in the results of the primary in West Virginia, the press corps isn't letting on. During the security sweep at Dulles, some play Hacky Sack with a cigarette carton. Awaiting the candidate on the tarmac, two guys from CNN toss a football. Aboard the plane, one member of the press corps entertains his colleagues by flopping down the aisle on his belly, like a fish.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/13/AR2008051302862.html

WV changed nothing. Everything that happened last night and this morning is utterly predictable to us so we know the Obama campaign saw it coming.


As for the reasons that Sen. Clinton and her team keep saying "we are fighting on", it's because of 1 of 2 reasons:



1. They have convinced themselves that somehow they can win this thing or . . . the more likely choice



2. They need to keep raising money.



Sen. Clinton can't run the "I'm broke, help me out" campaign so she has to keep pushing the idea that she has a chance of winning.



She doesn't.



And the biggest indication of that is where the money and the SD's are going.



And I really don't think what Sen. Clinton is doing is going to divide the party. Once people hear that Sen. McCain's plans are I think they will be well motivated to defeat him.

morning all. time to step it up in blogger land and blunt the "unity ticket" crap. And here is why.


icebergslim

Is it just me, or is the MSM blaming Obama because WV didn't vote him? Sure, BO could've campaigned so as not to appear to poo-poo the state, but look at the REASON why WV aren't voting for him: RACE -- an issue which Hillary has been pushing all along! Why hasn't the MSM taken WV to task for racism, and why haven't they taken Clinton to task for race-baiting??


B-Serious: I also saw Suzanne Malveux say that HRC's supporters say it's "Hillary first, the party second". I was floored, not because her supporters said this (because anyone with an ounce of common sense could figure that out), but because the CNN pundits SAID NOTHING! NOTHING! They just sat there and said not one word. SMH

And what's with this 2209 crap?


Correct me if I'm wrong, but Clinton's been arguing MI/FL for 3 months. Why is she just coming up with that 2209 mark now?



Why is the party even considering this? Why is the media even giving this air-time. WHY are people letting her move the goal-posts like this?



Obama needs to squash this right now.



Again, Rachel Maddow was spot-on when she said Obama fails to explain the damage that this prolonged race is doing to the Party. Of course, Hillary thinks it's good for the party. . . she's not gonna be the nominee. She doesn't have to campaign in the Fall.



I am convinced that she is staying in to weaken Obama for the general and poison the well of voters. She's giving her members permission to vote against their interests and party. And for what? What did Obama do to deserve the "I won't vote for him under any circumstances" bs?



Lanny Davis was spreading that meme all night. Larry King asked him 2 or 3 times why. Why do some people have such anger towards Obama? He never answered the question.



It's one thing to say you don't like someone or he doesn't "share your values." It's another thing entirely for DEMOCRATS to openly say they'll NEVER vote for another Democrat --- especially when Obama's treated Hillary with kid gloves this entire process.



I wouldn't vote for Hillary if you paid me. But at least I have reasons. It's not pure emotion. I can point to policy stances, campaign tactics and divisive comments that shaped my opinion of Hillary. I've yet to hear a logical reasoned argument as to why some Hillary supporters won't vote for Obama. It always comes back to the same thing: he didn't wait his turn. Sorry, but that's not good enough.



Someone from Clinton's camp actually told the media that it was "Hillary first, party second." And no one called her on this. Are you kidding me?



Lanny Davis said that Clinton won't concede even if/when Obama hits 2025. WTF?



And let's stop this "she's a fighter" bs. No, she's delusional.



Listen, I could challenge Lebron James to a game of one-on-one. I could lose 10-0. I could turn around and say best two out of three; best three out of five. I could do this for the rest of my life. I'm not "fighting" . . . I'm just wasting his time.



Hillary Clinton is a waste of time! Every day she stays in is a day wasted on her ego-trip. Every day she stays in is a day she distracts the party from beating McCain. Every dollar spent to campaign against her is a dollar that could have been spent on McCain. Enough already!



She has NO mathematical path to the nomination. Her camp has no shame in telling the press that she's only staying in because she hopes something bad happens to a fellow Democrat so she can steal the nomination.



This is the cost of "give her space." Obama gave her space and she used that "space" to move the goal posts once again and push this "2209" spin.

It's gonna be interesting to see the media narrative for the next couple of days.


So far, it doesn't look like they're taking the bait. No one's questioning whether or not Obama will win the Democratic nomination.



But the right wing is using this as Exhibit A as to why they think Obama can't win the general. Gretta from Fox News was all, "this is a bright neon sign" screaming Obama can't win. Disgusting.



Plus I'm starting to notice that some "democratic" pundits are gonna give a half-a*sed defense of Obama for the general election.

Obama needs to make a big Constitution Speech. He needs to tell America that The Imperial Presidency is over. That the next President will respect The Constitution and the rule of law, and this is very important, that the Vice-President, in his Administration, will follow The Constitution.


He needs to make it very clear that he has no intentions of having a Cheney as VP, talking impeachable BS about not being part of the Executive Branch. I believe he needs to link it to his very expansive and impressive policy papers on transparency in government.