2) actually no dem elected pres will accomplish squat unless dems pick up at least 5 seats in the senate – to me this is much more important that even winning the WH so the electability key for me is who will best accomplish this goal or least defeat this goal – here i think Sen Obama has the edge

3) true hispanic voters are heavily dem alredy, but need to turn out just like any demographic but the important analysis has to focus on key states Nev, New Mex, Ariz & Colo to name 4

4) neither Senators Obama nor Clinton are progressives – they are both essentially the same centrist republican light democrats that Bill Clinton was and will not lead the country anywhere but more of the same tightening grip of plutocracy

5) on second thought the eternal racist undertow in american politics might be finally be broken by electing Sen Obama (but ??? possibly reinforced ??? if he is nominated but looses)

> I’m not sure that it’s a generational divide…I think that it’s an optimism divide.

I was talking to somebody in South Carolina who’s on the older side of any generational divide, fairly conservative, and white. And that’s exactly why she voted for Obama. From her perspective, the differences on the issues weren’t the deciding factor.

What mattered was that it was the first time since 2001 (if not longer) she’s believed that there’s a chance that things could be different.

And of course that Iowa established that he had a chance to win; excellent points about the strategic wisdom of holding off on committing until seeing that it’s a viable campaign.

African Americans weren’t valued at three fifths of a white person; they were valued at negative three fifths of a white person. After all, the African Americans didn’t get to vote, so for each African American counting as three-fifths of a person, the white electorate got an extra three fifths of a person worth of representation – largely to vote against the interests of that African American.

The ‘three fifths’ was a compromise with Southerners who wanted African Americans to count fully for representation, which would in effect give them negative one vote each rather than negative three fifths of a vote each. It would be closer to the truth (though still wrong) to say that African Americans were valued at two fifths of a person.

By the way, this system is not completely dead: one good example is that there are a lot of people held in rural prisons, unable to vote anyplace, and because of their imprisonment there representation is apportioned to communities that use the resulting power to vote against social services in the prisoners’ urban homes.

It pains me that the black establishment that is backing Sen. Clinton is not seeing this or just doesn’t care.

Its not just blacks that would vote McCain, stay home or lodge a protest vote with a 3rd party candidate (Green, etc.). Progressive independents of all demographics would also be avoiding Clinton in droves. Her attachment to lobbyists, vote for AUMF and “it took a president” comment make it much harder for progressive independents to see a difference between her and McCain.

I honestly don’t see how Clinton (IF she gets the nomination) can win the general. The coalition that she thinks is going to unify behind her would not.

But this election is not over by a long shot. And there are people of good will all over this country that demand the right to judge presidential candidates based on the content of their character.

You are spot on!

We have been played so often, sometimes it just gets boring to watch as the CBC handkerchief heads roll over while the parties that be continue to throw them a bone.

What will the CBC and its members have to say to the AA community as Hillary who has lied to them time after time, makes a Latino her VP running mate?

Whoever is advising her and calculating that Black folks will vote for her in spite of throwing us away to pick a Latino will be tossed under the train with us. If its these same old tired Negroes who think that we will still support her in fear of the big bad GOP, well we better get ready for another Republican in the White House.

I had said if she is the candidate, I would hold my nose and vote for her, but if she is so calculating that she would pander to Hispanics at the expense of Black folks who did all the dying and crying for civil rights, I will not vote for her at all. Talk about shitting on the run that brought you to the dance, that would be the last straw for me.

Latinos have taken advantage of the gains Black folks have acquired and will do it again if given the chance. For Hillary Clinton to do this would be a catatrophic mistake on her part. Remember when they ask questions about immigration, have you noticed the lack of polling among African Americans? Hillary and her pollsters already know the answer they simply just don’t care, and for these CBC members to go along with it tells you all you need to know about them.

As many people are surprised at Clinton, then you will really like what is yet to come.

No. You need a math tutorial. Have you taken a look at the SW? All she needs to do is pick up the same states that both Kerry and Gore won, and a few SW states to win. With a Latino on the ticket, CO, AZ and NM are in play. She’s calculating that Blacks will still vote for her b/c we don’t have any more viable options…We will continue to remain in a marriage of convenience with the Democratic Party. But this is one free negro who has decided to be happily single than remain in an unfilling relationship with the Democratic Party. If more Black folks decide to protest by keeping our Black asses at home or voting for Bloomberg (if he gets in), it will cripple her campaign in reliably Blue states like PA. But given the nature of the slave, that’s not likely, so her bet on Brown is likely to pay off. Like it or not, we played ourselves by not making her votes more competitive since the 60’s. And we ain’t got shit to so for it!

You damn right! Those bastards have been on “watch” while the Democratic Party as been slowly and methodically supplanting the Black vote with the Latino vote. It’s being reported that Sentor Bob Menendez (NJ) is being floated as a VP nominee for Hillary Clinton. It’s being printed in her fundraising materials in NJ. Black folks don’t just need a clue; we need a kick in our heads for sleeping on these wicked MF’s!

I have been emailing this to as many news outlets as I can think of. This deserves a broad audience. One of the best I’ve ever read. Thanks, girl!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Will blacks still vote Democrat with Obama on the ticket?

If a majority of my people supported the Clintons in spite of ALL THAT THEY HAVE DONE UP TO NOW, (self-censorship).

Thanks for pointing out the Jonathan Alter article. My intelligence has been insulted.

Maybe *O* needs to start running ads targeted at the so-called “lower scale” demographic…I want to go into the innercity streets with a megaphone and start yelling, “BILL & HILLARY CLINTON Think We’re ALL DUMB! THEY think that the only reason we support Barack is because he is black and we are NOT SMART enough to think for ourselves and SEE through their CRAP. I don’t know bout YOU, but I’m not SERVIN MASSA!”

Its only function is too ask how low to bend or which way when approached by corporations and other interest groups than AA to support their issues.

These are sell-outs from way back. I am 55 years old, and do not support any of the CBC members. These people are a disgrace and have not firmly stood up for the AA community for years. Their new masters: corporations who tell them which issues to vote on to hurt us. Check out the records of your local CBC member, you would be truly amazed.

Yes, they are committing hari-kari, but we are the ones with the knives in our backs.

The Clinton’s are finally showing their “true colors” as are these so-called Progressives. Did you expect anything else?

For all of you who actually assumed that the Clintons and these so-called Progressives had your best interests at heart, I will pray for you.

On issue after issue, as long as we were kept in the background until needed to vote for whatever Democrat was thrown in front of us, as we listened to homilies about the issues of concern without any mandates to make the necessry changes, we were the necessary burden that they had to bear.

How dare these Black folks demand accountability? How dare these Black folks state they have as much right to be heard? It’s not time to take theem out of the closet yet.

For every issue of importance to us, we have been marginalized and dismissed with homilies about doing better THE NEXT TIME. How many more next times are we supposed to wait?

Were we listened to or even acknowledged when we vehemently opposed the Iraq War? How about immigration? Has even the Congressional Black Caucus, meaning hedging their bets by supporting the Clintons in fear of losing their “influence”, selling us down the river. What will immigration do to help working class African-Americans accept take away the scarce jobs we have now?

Yes, open the door, pull us out, but keep your mouths shut and doe as your told.

Not only are the Clintons showing their true colors, but these people who consider themselves Progressives. A long contemplative look into their mirrors should make them pause as they in their own ways continue to tell us to stay in our place.

Pictures of Billary with …

TONY REZKO!

You know, Obama’s best friend, the Chicago slumlord.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash1.htm

‘I DON’T REMEMBER MEETING REZKO’
Fri Jan 25 2008 07:40:02

**INTERNET EXCLUSIVE**

Photo surfaces of smiling Clintons with Tony Rezko.

MORE…

Clinton injected the indicted developer’s name this week in debate with Obama: ‘I was fighting against those ideas when you were practicing law and representing your contributor, Rezko, in his slum landlord business in inner city Chicago.’

Clinton tells NBC ‘TODAY’ show on Friday: ‘I probably have taken hundreds of thousands of pictures. I don’t know the man. I wouldn’t know him if he walked in the door.’

Developing…

Right… the same CBC with no members under 35 – or probably even under 45!

They may have a handle on black senior citizens, but I think younger and many independent black voters and black voters who never voted before (new college age voters and older disaffected voters) will surprise them.

And, if the NYTimes comments section is any indication (after the NY times endorsed HRC for the Dem nod, there are many white voters who will surprise them as well…

They may try to write off SC as the “angry black vote” but they still have to contend with the rest of America.

I also think that the Clintons have already made a decision about who they want for vp,(hence the dirty tactics with Obama). That person has probably committed, and probably is hispanic.

That being said I don’t think Obama will except, and why should he considering how high Hillary’s negatives are among white voters, and now blacks. On her best day she gets 46-47% of the vote, and that’s not enough to win the white house.

The Clintons are banking on the fact that blacks will return in the general. And I believe that they’ve been given that assurance by black leaders in the CBC.

In short, if Obama wins on Saturday and then goes on to compete well in other states it will get even nastier.

Do you think Obama will be asked to be VP as a way to ‘unify’ the party?

No.

Will he accept? Should he accept?

No and Hell naw!

These ‘tensions’ and ‘dislikes’ have a way of disappearing once the nominee is selected.

Will blacks still vote Democrat with Obama on the ticket?

Some will, but others will stay home or, as I have seen many, many Democrats state, they will vote for John McCain if he is the nominee.

Of course, anything can happen in the next 6 months, but I think the Clintons have sorely underestimated the intelligence of a LOT of African American voters.

Jonathan Alter has an interesting article in Newsweek:

The Clintons’ Patronizing Strategy: The latest attacks on Obama insult voters’ intelligence.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/101173

Do you think Obama will be asked to be VP as a way to ‘unify’ the party?

Will he accept? Should he accept?

These ‘tensions’ and ‘dislikes’ have a way of disappearing once the nominee is selected.

Will blacks still vote Democrat with Obama on the ticket?

Personally I hope that blacks will finally leave the democratic party behind, and move to a position of independence, and independent thinking. It’s in our best interest as a community to serve notice to both parties that we’re looking out for self…no longer beholding to any political party.

Anyway this site is jammin!