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gruzchiki spb…

gruzchiki spb…

I usually follow MSNBC, C-SPAN, CNN and the Sunday Political Talk Shows and I must have missed this one BUT now that I have caught up I will keep a closer eye on PATTY B.

His trying to connect GANGS to Voting Patterns between Blacks and Latins can’t even be considered a stretch. It was a like a WARP SPEED JUMP FROM ACROSS A GALAXY.

The Cuban-American population in South Florida is NOT typical in voting patterns for Latinos nationwide. As I said, most of the Cuban exiles who fled when Castro took over were rich whites. And Cuban Americans blamed JFK for the botched Bay of Pigs fiasco and very few have voted Democratic ever since. When Jimmy Carter handled the Cuban boat crisis of the ’70s ineptly, and Bill Clinton sent that orphaned boy back to live in Cuba with his father–that reinforced the anti-Democratic views of Cuban-Americans in little Havana and throughout South Florida. So, just as one cannot accurately judge Latino voting patterns based on S. Florida’s Cuban-Americans, I wouldn’t think one could generalize about racial attitudes, either.

(Although maybe it would help if a Jimmy Smits or an Edward James Olmos would tour Latino areas for Obama the way Oprah toured African-American communities in SC!)

And, as with all racial/ethnic groupings, prejudice is more open among those with less education. (Yes, of course, there are educated bigots and big-hearted workers for justice, equality, and reconciliation among those with little or no formal learning. But education has been shown repeatedly to be a major factor in overcoming prejudices–as is working on common projects such as community organizing.) I assume that is why Obama is doing better among educated whites with upscale jobs than among blue collar whites–and I would expect the same to be true in other ethnic/linguistic groups.

Hopefully, Ted Kennedy’s strong connections to blue collar whites and Latinos will help in this regard. If John Edwards had not run in SC, I expect that Obama would have won a much larger section of the white vote there–and he still did far better than expectations.

I only wish there were more time before Super Tuesday to capitalize on the momentum from Friday.

Uptownsteve posted this link over at Booker Rising;

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x42c61_california-for-obama-latino-leaders_news

Famous words repeated countless times, in a coalition of minority groups banning together to achieve some type of political power. Yet when Hispanics and Blacks got together to achieve this goal, once all the struggle was over and Blacks had been used, they were reduced to outsiders as they watched Hispanics, particulary in South Florida, used their so-called whiteness and the so-called priviledge that provides, leave them behind.

Fall for the okey doke if you want fellow African Americans and once again we will be the losers.

How many times have you seen Hispancis when espousing their positions talk about the Brown and Black brothers working together? Not very often you say, yet when Blacks are agitating for change we are inclusive of all minorities, resulting in gains of opportunity for all.

The experiences of African Americans in South Florida should give pause to anyone posting here about the wonderful relationships so many have had with their fellow “brothers.” A marriage of convenience only to be divorced once one partner gets what he wants.

To the poster advising African Americans to sit out the election if Hillary Clinton is “the” candidate, are you advocating that Hispanics do the same?

Just asking.

I blogged on Rodriguez’ article too. I grew up in a Latino/Asian neighborhood and I live in one now. Friends from childhood and my neighbors now were pissed when they heard the Clinton campaign say that.

The coffee house down the street has a lot of young, college-educated Latinos as patrons and workers. These people are pro-Obama and have been for a year. Last July, one girl asked me who I was voting for and I said, “I don’t know.” She gasped and slapped an Obama sticker on me. She said, “This is the person who can make this country whole. Don’t you want that?” Well, duh. Still I was unsure at the time. It wasn’t until after the debate at YearlyKos that I decided to go with Dodd. Obama was an extremely distant second.

On my street, we’re the youngest homeowners and speaking with my neighbor (57) and her mom (75) even they are Obama supporters and the mom said that she’s been door knocking for Obama since December. I had no idea.

I saw that. I knew he’d find a way to ignore South Carolina.

Even though slavery was outlawed in Mexico in 1846, Blacks in Mexico were not even counted as a group until last year!

They were discriminated against and marginalized, considered invisible people by their own government. I dare say that a majority of people in this country didn’t even know that there are whole regions of Mexico where Blacks are large numbers of the population.

When the president of Mexico has to be scolded by Blacks from this country for making a racist coon figure part of the national logo of Mexico just a few years ago,
don’t go Pollyanna on us by trying to pass off your BS that Mexicans and Blacks are walking down the road hand and hand.

My friend if most Mexicans had their way, we wouldn’t even be outlawed on the bus, let alone sit in the back!

I am glad that your experiences in your community have been positive, however, I like the first poster live in Miami. I was here when the first Cubans began arriving, the ones with the money smuggled out of Cuba from their plantations and money either pillared from Cuba. They begin arriving about the same time that the Civil Rights Movement was taking place in this country in the late 50′s, and were soon provided with the benefits that Black Americans fought and died for, but were not given by the racist in control of this city. The Cuban Refugee Adjustment Act which provided ANY Cuban who made it to the US with food stamps, housing subsidies, educational grants, a swifter path to citizenship and the holy grail, Social Security for many people who had never worked a day in their lives in this country.

Semperas, that Act is still in force today, as most of the Cubans who now make it to Florida are more economic than political refugees as their relatives before Bush cut off their cake, could go and come to Cuba on vacation!

All the while, African Americans and their so-called leaders watched as government officials, and politicians bent over backward to strip Affirmative Action a program that has been in force LESS time than the Cuban Refugee Adjustment Act, that Cubans now say is not needed, since they have been catered to at the expense of American citizens.

Even though Jimmy Carter many of them get here in the 1980′s, the majority are all Republicans. Every benefit they have received was the result of a democratic initiative, yet they slap them in the face and continually vote the Republican platform which is perplexing because the Republicans are antithema to everything the Cubans have received.

The tension between African-Americans and Cubans is simmering just below the surface as these immigrants have now decided that African-Americans are lazy, ungrateful for what the Cubans have allowed them to have in Miami. The outflux of both Whites and Blacks from Miami is telling as both populations in the city have continued to decrease. Don’t take my word for it, check the census reports of the last ten years. And while your checking Haitians, Jamicians, Dominicans in Miami don’t consider themselves Black, so please don’t include them in those figures as they don’t include themselves. Talk about self-loathing!

As I said, I am happy for you wherever you are Semperas, but here in Miami, our young people cannot get jobs because they don’t speak Spanish, and it is constantly used as a weapon by people who do speak it in order to deny a job.

The writing is on the wall, if this is allowed to grow like a cancer in other parts of the US, native born Americans will not stand a chance, and will be relegted to second class citizenship behind people who will throw it up in your face about how Americans are such suckers. You will not go to Cuba, Mexico, Dominican Republic, Costa Rica or any other country and have the laws changed to accomodate Americans, yet we are bending over backwards to help people who don’t appreciate it.

Wake up and tell the real truth.

Now as to whether there is animosity or a split that shows up in voting patterns… I will leave that to others.

But Nevada means nothing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSPb-7S8-2o

Yes, there is some Black-Latino conflict, but outside of gang turf wars, the vast majority of both populations get along pretty well. In Arizona and California, we work in each other’s business and have good relations, African-Americans hablan español muy bien, and in general we do just fine.

To the extent that Latinos and Blacks are increasingly coming to occupy and become dominant in separate regions, that’s not really due to conflict as much as the natural tendency for us to opt for majority status in regions where our demographic strength can translate into economic and political strength: Latinos in Florida and the Southwest, which historically were Latino countries anyway (the SW part of Mexico before the Mexican War), and African-Americans in the Deep South, Carolinas and regions of the Upper Midwest.

Truth is, Blacks, Latinos and native Americans all have parallel historical narratives in this country: All of us were among the original inhabitants of the USA but we were all considered enemy populations by “the Anglos” in North America, and we were either enslaved, or had racially-tinged wars waged against us for territory, or otherwise were targeted for displacement.

We’d be dangerous if united, so racist politicians like the Clintons desperately try to pit us against each other.

Remember, the whole point of the Anglos in the Mexican War in 1846, was to capture Mexican territory and spread slavery to the Southwest– Mexico had banned slavery in 1848! All of us, Latinos, Blacks, native Americans, even the Chinese who were virtually enslaved to build the railroads in California in the 1800′s, all of us were targeted as enemies in the Continent by the Anglos.

Now that whites in the USA are headed for minority status in a couple decades, they’re trying to split us apart. The KKKlintons know that and they’re trying to play on those anxieties.

It’s all the more reason never to vote for the Clintons even if Hillary were nominated– the same race-baiting, voter fraud and disgusting dissembling they’re doing against an African-American candidate like Obama, would just as easily be used against Latinos, if we were to ever forgive the Clintons for it. No forgiveness, no mercy– the Clintons have to feel serious and painful repercussions in their actions, in the form of us African-Americans never voting for them. And in protecting our own like this, we protect Latino candidates just as well.

the reference to black haitian refugees and michael westmoreland’s comment about the squishy definition of latino got me thinking. how are black hispanic groups perceived by the general african-american community? people like David Ortiz, Manny Ramirez, Alex Rodriguez, Vladimir Guerrerro? They’re clearly black, but also Latino.

I wonder how Pat Buchanan would categorize these athletes?

Now, to your excellent point. What white talking heads (even ones who don’t walk on their knuckles as much as trogladytes like Buchanan) often miss is that “Hispanic” is a language group and Latino/a doesn’t designate any one racial or ethnic group–but just people from Latin America (or those from parts of this nation once part of Mexico). So, for instance, although Cuba is a largely black island, most Cuban exiles in South Florida are white–because the rich white minority fled when Castro took over.

Latinos include those who self-identify as black, those who self-identify as white, and those who self-identify as “mestizo” or mostly of Indigenous people groups.

WASP attempts to put all Latinos/Latinas together as one “race” are wrongheaded–and show as much about white preoccupations as about Latinos.

Or so it seems to this Southern white boy who has spent considerable time in Central America and among Latino groups in the U.S.