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Here are the links:
http://radicalnegative.blogspot.com/2007/12/then-it-dawned-on-me-with-certain.html
http://radicalnegative.blogspot.com/2007/11/dubois-hegel-and-structural-diagnosis.html

2) Yes.

3) You never advocated socialism explicitly, but when you start talking about changing policies that promote “one class over another”, that has a kind of socialist ring to it. And by socialism I mean a classless society which is the goal of many “social justice” seekers, which you seem to be. Maybe it was a stretch for me to put you on the side of socialism, but if not that, what policy changes are you advocating to stop promoting “one class over another”?

BTW: The Black Panthers, who you seem to be a fan of, were strong advocates of socialism. Don’t get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for the panthers (the old ones, not the new ones), because they were about taking action to help the community.

4) It is a means to socialism, the government taking from the rich to give to the poor. I know a lot of hard-line conservatives use this term to define almost any social programs put in place to help poor people, but that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m not against these kind of programs, but I do think they ought to be geared more toward empowering people and not making them dependent on the government.

5) When you use act, it is always in terms of fighting government policy. Poor people don’t have time for that fight when they are busy trying to survive. When you stress the importance of “social justice” over self empowerment, it gives the impression that people can’t help themselves until the bigger fight is won.

6) You don’t need to imply it, that’s what your doing. Why can’t you let a dialog of black empowerment stand alone without bringing racism into the discussion?

7) There are a wide range of numbers out there for this. They’re all estimates and depend on the source. When states and other organizations affiliated with the schools do estimates they use practices that minimize rates. For example, if a student is expelled or enters juvenile detention and doesn’t return to school, or drops out after they’re 18, they don’t count it a dropout. Others do juice the numbers as high as possible, up to 50%. 40% may even be a bit high. Here is a reasonable study that reports 25-31%, which is still nothing to sneeze at and definitely not a very small minority.

8) All the numbers I have seen on this one are up around 70% and I don’t doubt it for a second. Not that my personal acquaintances are representative of the majority, but I see way more babies born to single mothers than married couples. If you have seen lower stats, please share.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on the larger picture here.

But a few questions:

1) I am curious, how exactly is my last point a reach? Is it the use of the words “whole generation?” Would “FAR FAR to many members of the upcoming generation” have worked better for ya’? Because the rest of the point still stands in my opinion and is rather disturbing…

2)Do you honestly believe that we can affect significant, real, stable, long term change in mass without going after government policies and laws?

3) Please define the term socialism and explain where in my post I
advocate it.

4) Please define the term “wealth redistribution” and give a specific (though not necessarily a real to life) example of it.

And please note that I know what the above these terms mean [at least to me]. But I’m curious to get your definitions of them.

5) Where did I say we should wait for government? Your right if we WAIT for government shit all will happen. Likewise, if we ignore the level of impact that government law and policy has on our lives guess what? Shit all will happen. I SPECIFICALLY used the word ACT in my comment above, again, you might want to reread as ACT clearly does not = wait. But I would love to see your example of where I did say/imply we should wait for anything.

6) Where did I say/imply we need to “turn the power down on Black empowerment?”

7) 40% dropout rate from what? High school? Did you check the statistics in the last 5 years? Because that’s not what the sources I’m looking at are saying.

Come on now. How far of a reach is that?

Also, I’m not saying that Cosby is introducing any brand new ideas, but he’s spreading a message that needs to be heard. And his status as a black icon makes him an effective conduit.

“And who said we’ve gained NO ground since the Civil Rights Movement?”

Ok, you never said that. But why reference that era in this debate? We are not dealing with that level of racism in 2007. I don’t know why some want to turn the volume down on ‘black empowerment’ and put ‘racism’ on full blast. Sorry, but the revolution you are waiting for ain’t gonna happen (socialism, wealth redistribution, etc). If you want to wait for government to fix our problems, you’ll be waiting forever. I don’t even believe it is within the government’s power to do this. That power lies with us as a people, but primarily as individuals.

“…very small minority…”?

I wouldn’t say that. More like a significant minority. Given, a majority of black people aren’t criminals, do care for their children, etc.; a 40% dropout rate is hardly a small minority, and a 70% out-of-wedlock birthrate isn’t a minority at all. Granted, these factors don’t eliminate one from success but they make it much harder to attain. If we reduce these number, it would certainly chop down the black poverty rate which is proportionately DOUBLE that of whites.

First, I’m not necessarily in total disagreement with Bill Cosby on everything but I am FAR from agreement with him. Mainly because I think that he GREATLY oversimplifies both the problems and solutions, to the detriment of what he’s trying to accomplish.

Re: crime, etc: proportionally we blah blah blah…right, how big is that proportion?

And yet, how much of the conversation does that proportion dominate?

And why the hell is it that people like you are under the impression that everyday people of color are not speaking up and/or actively doing something about these things on a DAILY basis?

And who said we’ve gained NO ground since the Civil Rights Movement? Where the HELL did you pull that from? Please reread what I wrote.

And I never said ALL schools yadda yadda yadda but since you’re so into “proportions” what proportion of public schools (which is mainly what I was referring to, since I know that there are Black private schools that teach this history) actively teach American history that positively and consistently includes Black struggles and achievement throughout American history not just in terms of slavery and the Civil Rights Movement and the Harlem Renaissance (in February)? How many children know the real reasons for the Civil War? Or are they still teaching it was the good North who wanted to free slaves out of the kindness of their hearts vs. the bad South who wanted to keep them? How many schools teach about the many many many programs (some would classify them as affirmative action programs funny that?) since America’s inception and up until fairly recently that were legally put in place by the government that have been used to push Whites forward while keeping people of color back either by denying people of color access to said program or by using said programs/policies to outright steal property from people of color and give it to Whites? Should I go on? And do you really want to tell me that the history of Blacks in America is being properly taught to all students everywhere in schools? When there are people who would argue that in some schools they’re not even being taught to speak basic ENGLISH well?

Re: the New Black Panther Party. Thanks I actually learned something and appreciate the info, they seem to be an interesting group Blacks men and Women who are trying to affect change in as positive a manner as possible for the Black community and subsequently all communities, using the parameters of the legal system in America…I’m sure the FBI file on them would make for a great read.

Look, my concern is that I know (as in fully know as in I am not just giving lip service to the fact) that not all Black people fit into the stereotypes that Cosby addresses. I also know that it’s a very small minority of Black people that do…and yet, how many Whites/other races (and in some cases Blacks) KNOW that? How many other people are exposed to the other side of the story? Because the fact is there are still, to this day, whole sections of America with a population of Blacks/people of color that falls below 2%..and these people get their info on people of color from what sources? And what segment of the Black or Latino populations in particular do those sources constantly focus on? And do you HONESTLY believe that the people in these areas are getting a real thorough, honest look at the struggles and achievements Blacks throughout American History from their schools?

The other fact is poll after poll shows that we as Blacks get that we have to fend/do for ourselves on things. WE HAVE ALWAYS GOTTEN THAT. THIS IS NOT A NEW PHENOMENA. We have ALWAYS set high standards for ourselves and ACHIEVED said standards when everyone was telling us it COULD NOT BE DONE. THIS IS NOT A NEW PHENOMENA. If you want to talk about getting paid for hard work, Black Americans with a deep history in this country, not to mention Blacks from other countries throughout the world who have had to deal with the institution of slavery and Jim Crow, should be the RICHEST people on earth right now. So why aren’t we? Cause we have problems saving? Cause we don’t know the value of the dollar? That doesn’t seem to stop white CEOs of various banks and political figures from getting ahead just fine. Indeed, just how much of White wealth was/is generated SOLELY on the basis of hard work?

Blacks and specifically Black youths today need POSITIVE reinforcement. They need to know that they come from a long line of strong, positive, able, successful people. It’s something that needs to be told to them over and over again.

But they are not being taught this history in schools, they are not being shown this history or present state in the media, they are not being protected fully and equally by the law, they are not being treated with even basic respect (i.e. it’s assumed that they have no values or no common sense if they live in a certain zip code). So they have absorbed this dumb stereotype that Black achievement is an exception not a rule, and so consequently they believe that while so and so might have gotten ahead it’s different/difficult for them, because they are somehow degenerate. And while they do rail in one way or another against racism and prejudice in this society, for them they are just railing against the racism and prejudice in society that attacks them for being degenerate. In other words, they’ve absorbed the OVERWHELMING image of Blacks as handicapped. This image, contrary to popular opinion, does not necessarily come from their immediate environment (i.e. their parents, friends, etc.) but rather from reinforcement via the school system, the media and policy…if that’s not the case, how is it that Whites who grow up rarely seeing a Black person, emerge with the same image of Blacks as being, in some way, degenerate or “less than” (regardless of if the White person is Republican, Conservative, Democrat, Liberal etc.)?

Also in re: the media. How many magazines do people of color own and or operate? How many television and radio stations? How many movie studios? How many newspapers? How many record labels? And when I say own and operate I mean fully from top to bottom without having to answer to one of the major media corporations i.e. Viacom or GE? Why is it that some Blacks in the public eye, many of whom are incredibly successful, try to adhere to a White standard of…well…everything, including beauty? Why is it that globally, there are still, in 2007, people in places like Brazil, India and some countries in Africa who are bleaching their skin and hair and trying to look as White as possible despite the fact that Blacks/dark skinned people are in the MAJORITY over there? Do you think these are the actions of people with healthy self esteem? And why do they think they will get the self esteem they lack by adhering to white standards? How many of these people know that people of color are the majority in the world? How many people in the United States even know that?

We have enough people looking down from the top, telling Black people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, despite the fact, that they were given a ladder of some sort to get up there in the first place. What we need more of are people who are willing to get “dirty” and, among other things, expose the system of advantage based on race that is the basis, the very FABRIC of this country. We are not having enough honest discussions about race. We are not having enough honest discussions about American history and its consequences.

I believe that we need to focus on changing policies and law because as long as the policies and laws of this country continue to advance one race over another or one class over another we will never have the pure opportunity to live up to our full potential en masse.

Yet while everyone is screaming at Blacks to get their shit together (which has been going on since America’s inception) and blah blah blah, we’ve seen this administration in particular, explicitly or implicitly dismantle many of the programs and laws that were put in place in response to during the Civil Rights Movement and as various other social and economic programs that helped Blacks, people of color, and other American minorities advance. This is already having an immediate, negative effect on Blacks from all backgrounds today, which means it will have an even greater negative effect on Black youth’s tomorrow.

So yeah, if you are going to criticize Blacks and say they should work on improving themselves etc. WHILE you actively, consistently and passionately act to ensure that at least the aforementioned programs that are being dismantled are restored, improved and protected, then fine. But my fear is that most people will say, see I told you it’s THEIR problem and THEIR fault, we don’t have to do shit, and leave it at that.

Also, no one is saying that racism is non-existent in America. But to suggest we have gained no ground since the Civil Rights Movement is ridiculous. And contrary to your assumptions, every media outlet is not stacked against black people, not all schools ignore black history and mistreat black students, and [do a Google for New Black Panther Party] somebody already has.

Also meant to add: If you bother to actually look at Cosby’s comments instead of buying into the negative media hype, you’ll see that he never said anything was wrong with ethnic names. When he first spoke on it, he said parents who “don’t know a damned thing about Africa” give their children those names and then children end up in jail. Later he clarified by talking about how most of these names symbolize strong qualities, but the parents don’t raise their children with these qualities.

We’re living in 2007 and apparently Black people still don’t even have the right to their OWN DAMN NAME.

But let’s keep doing the same old two step…surely they’ll start to respect us then…(me “acting black” and rolling my eyes here)

And I mean to post as “saywha’” not “likethat” above.

Contrary to popular opinion, most Blacks aren’t committing crimes, prone to failure, dumb, crazy, etc.

However, the media hyper-focuses on the SMALL segment of the Black community that is involved in illegal/other kinds of dubious activity, and ignores facts like Whites tend to be arrested at least twice as much as Blacks for committing violent crimes and most other crimes in general, and that Whites use AND deal SIGNIFICANTLY more drugs than Blacks, etc.

Yet, despite the aforementioned, Blacks (and specifically Black male youths) and people of color in general are used as the scapegoats for immoral activity taking place in American society and Blacks specifically are dismissed as being “broken beyond repair” and “prone” to bad activity. This has been the narrative FOREVER i.e. virtually immediately after Blacks were “freed” from physical slavery.

And while a White youth who shoots up a school is viewed as a poor, disturbed youth, whose mother didn’t love him enough, and who suffered from being an outcast and therefore is the VICTIM in some respects of the lack of mental health care blah blah blah (the mere fact that media pundits even bother to ANALYZE said youths is telling) and/or while at least one White youth is virtually PRAISED by at least one well known media figure for at least having the “decency” and “courage” and in some ways the “compassion” to shoot himself after shooting up a school (according to him a Black person would never have mustered that kind of courage, and would have gone on happily living because that’s just the kind of act our Black culture revels in/celebrates), Blacks/Black youths, who commit a crime, no matter how petty, no matter what the circumstance, no matter how young they are when it happens, are thugs, with no redeeming value, who are not worth trying to save either before or after they commit a crime.

America likes to think of itself as always innocent…Whites (intentionally or unintentionally) tend to think of themselves as always innocent…yet the history of this country says otherwise and indeed, as the author of the Washington Post Op-Ed highlights [which is his main point], Whites are not perfect or innocent and Blacks/people of color do not have a monopoly on or even an investment in degenerate behavior.

That’s not an excuse for inaction; it’s a call to it. It’s a call to change the double standards that exist within the media all American institutions and that perpetuate (to their detriment) the myth that Blacks are inferior NO MATTER HOW MUCH PROOF they are given to the contrary (in other words, Bill Cosby, despite his accomplishments and how benign he is to White America is still a n*gger to some people, many of whom are currently in office deciding foreign and domestic policy, and always will be no matter what he accomplishes and as such there is a system in place designed to ensure that he never travels to far out of bounds…if that’s to much for you to grasp, here’s a more concrete example: a group of smart, strong, motivated, positive, athletic, college enrolled Black women are still “nappy headed hos” to the majority of White Americans in power…and please don’t try that TIRED old argument that rappers call Black women hos all the time…it is BEYOND W-E-A-K and reeks of bull shit and desperation).

If you believe that the Civil Rights movement provided some sort of clean slate for the end of racism and prejudice, please do me a favor and try to form a Black Panther party today and see what happens. Or better yet, pick up a newspaper any damn newspaper, and see how they deal with reporting crimes committed by people of color vs. crime committed by Whites. Or how ’bout you sit in on a high school class an see how much time is devoted to slavery and the Jim Crow era, and see exactly how the teacher goes about presenting this subject to kids, or better yet see how much positive Black/People of Color American history is included by DEFAULT in public schools without it being limited to the following: Martin Luther King Jr., Frederick Douglas, Maya Angelou, or see how a teacher treats a student of color over another student whose White, or explain to me why SIGNIFICANTLY MORE WHITES than Blacks are arrested each year for crime and yet the majority of prisoners in America are Black?

He said he’s been called an Uncle Tom in the past, well this video could go in the Step and Fetch It Hall of Fame.

And when I tell people Cosby has lost his damn mind and that yes “personal responsibility” as it’s currently being used is a four letter word people tell me I’m just making excuses for bad black behavior.

When i point out that white doesn’t equal right and black doesn’t equal bad and that assimilation (i.e. becoming more white) is NOT the answer I’m told I’m militant, or angry or excuse making or whatever.

I know I’m not crazy. And glad someone else is definitely expressing what I’ve been feeling FOEVER.

oh and Cosby has apparently never been to a liberal arts college in the northeast)

LOL.

I went to a southern white private university. Talk about the most sex (lesbian sex included), getting pregnant, abortion having people I met in my life.

Hell so many girls I knew were “virgins” but they’d done some things I haven’t even thought of..LOL.

yet Black women are loose and lack morals.

Sigh.

http://brownsugar28.blogspot.com

Put simply, how are we supposed to succeed if everyone is convincing us that the only way to do so is to imitate white people, rather than doing it for ourselves?