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Fact, you said: “…I don’t jump on a soapbox every time someone screams racism. It’s there and it won’t go away, so should we keep protesting for something that will never come? Or do we realize it, accept it, and move on by creating lives and communities that are good…”

The leaders that I mentioned marched for justice and equality, most people who are marching today are marching for the same thing. You make it seem as if “racism” in its abstract is what most people are marching and fighting to end. That isn’t possible, and indeed would be ridiculous, kind of be like trying to fight a “war on terror.”

What people are marching and fighting to end is racism that is displayed in the law and government, etc. policy (i.e. the penalties for crack vs. cocaine).

As far as I’m concerned, every person involved in the legal system, from an officer to a judge, to a whatever can MENTALLY and in their own private home, or out of earshot of anyone else, call someone every derogatory name they can think of just because he/she is black, provided, at the end of the day, that person thinking these horrible things still thoroughly does their job to protect ALL people well, fairly and EQUALLY, and they TREAT me, other members of my race, and all people FAIRLY and EQUALLY, in accordance with a just, FAIR and EQUAL law.

So while the cop is reading someone his/her rights he’s free to think “you fucking ni-. I hate you ni–er bi–ches.” As long as he reads the person his or her rights. The attorney that the defendant is assigned, can think the same thing, as long as at the end of the day, he does his job and makes sure to represent his client thoroughly, fairly, equally, and well…capice?

The civil rights movement isn’t OVER. Just because there aren’t signs declaring white fountain and black fountain (or because the black neighborhoods vs. white neighborhoods/black tables vs. white tables/black trees vs. white trees “appear” to have been created voluntarily) doesn’t mean that we have acquired equal civil rights. Maybe on paper, but not yet, in PRACTICE, where it COUNTS THE MOST.

Until laws and policy are continuously applied fairly and equally, and racist BEHAVIOR is continuously penalized AND DISCOURAGED, then I’m not sure how people can just “move on” as you suggest.

We can try to “move on,” we can do our best to live upright, outstanding lives, but at the end of the day, that shadow of exercised inequality in government law and policy, is always going to be hovering over you if you’re Black (regardless of if you choose to ignore it and regardless of how middle class or rich you are, hence Will Smiths comments re: 9-11, and Will Smith is as nice, hardworking, smart, rich and motivated as they come) unless you fight back against it or at the very least, don’t keep others from fighting against it.

Amadu Diallo was just trying to “move on” and live his life to the best of his ability (no past criminal records to leak to the press on this case). How’s that young man doing today? How are the cops that handled the situation the way they did doing today?

And, ironically, by fighting via protests etc., and forcing the government to treat people equally in policy and law, you ultimately, in the long run, will end up with LESS racism, as it exists in the abstract because there will be much less blatant, seemingly sanctioned displays of harming people simply for being a different race, or for being different period.

Yes, so why do we need a Covenant to do that? The things I mentioned do not need a Covenant to accomplish, they are personal and family responsibilities, not the govt. Yes, I read it, bought it at St. Agnes in Houston at the State of the Black Union. So what?

“I’m guessing back in the day you would have been pissed at Rosa Parks? Malcom X? Martin Luther King Jr.? Nelson Mandela? You know, people who realized that FAITH without ACTION is dead”

No, I would not. Their actions were successful in getting us the civil rights we have now. We are supposed to be taking advantage of those. Not crying when we do something wrong that is totally our own doing and then cry racism. BTW, I don’t think I mentioned Jena, but I agree that the DA’s actions were unjust.

“Oh wait, but you’re “independent” (hoorah for you) the rest of us (who presumably are not) are apparently just peons, BLINDLY following ol’ massa’ and as such haven’t yet reached the state of enlightenment that you have to be so completely objective.”

If you say so.

You’re right, that was simple. You win. Thanks
CeCe

Why is this obvious? Because the Dem. Prez. candidates showed up to all of the aforementioned debates. And yes, at times, they were put on the spot and challenged (and subsequently likely made to feel a mite uncomfortable) that is what is SUPPOSED to happen in a debate.

Of the major debates/forums, the Dems have so far, only turned down Faux News, which has happily and actively turned itself into an unreliable, uninformative, clearly biased, isn’t the least bit interested in genuine discussion, network. You reap what you sow.

Let me just make this as simple as possible:

Where we agree: Republicans have shown their cowardice by showing up to EITHER the Univision debate or the debate hosted by Tavis Smiley.

The issues of sound bites.

Much of everything else you said makes little to no sense if people look below the surface. Oh wait, but you’re “independent” (hoorah for you) the rest of us (who presumably are not) are apparently just peons, BLINDLY following ol’ massa’ and as such haven’t yet reached the state of enlightenment that you have to be so completely objective.

You are making excuses for the Republicans based on leaps of logic, speculation and the hope that no one possesses critical thinking skills…they’re big old white boys (and I say that as nicely as possible), they should be able to speak for/defend themselves…they have not/don’t in this instance because THEY KNOW they’re wrong and are afraid of the backlash that will come from sane Repubs, Dems, and Indeps. if they are blatant about there motivations for not showing up.

But no matter, I’m sure the winner of the primaries will manage to stumble into a Black church to talk about Black issues, after he takes his meetings with the White folk (who have NO AGENDA/version of the Covenant themselves, because, after all, it’s a white world we live in, and as such WE’RE the trespassers, so any agenda they have should be considered, weighed, and ultimately legalized, while any potential Covenant that Blacks make to improve our lives, should be dismissed and viewed as being extremist/sympathetic to Dems, a victim mentality and “wallowing in the man is keeping us down” group think, give me a break).

You said we should focus on creating good lives and communities, “take responsibility,” etc. Did you even read the Covenant? ‘Cause that’s what it’s about.

You say we should be marching to change the laws on the book for crack vs. cocaine, um, that is one small part of the problem, the overarching problem however, is BLATANT INEQUALITY within the justice system (am I enabling Blacks by pointing this out, or should I cover my eyes and turn my back and pray it goes away?), that’s what the Jena 6 march is about, that LARGER theme.

One has to start somewhere, just because the starting point/initial focus isn’t something you agree with or think is important at the time, doesn’t mean it’s wrong/misguided.

I’m guessing back in the day you would have been pissed at Rosa Parks? Malcom X? Martin Luther King Jr.? Nelson Mandela? You know, people who realized that FAITH without ACTION is dead?

And re: the middle class: I’m just going to say this, thanks in large part to LAWS PASSED by Republicans (and yes, some idiot Dems but mainly Republicans), the middle class overall is dying. Do the research.

You say your friends reactions to Repubs are visceral, if that is true, I can’t say I blame them at this point (though I suspect that you’re just pissed that they aren’t as “independent” as you are yadda yadda yadda). Time after time the Republicans have proven that they will side with Bush and the Neocon agenda against the wishes and best interests of the country and the world. Whether you’re Black or White, I would think that would be disturbing.

And the Republicans are the ones who are keeping us in Iraq and failing our troops,the vast majority of Republicans who said/hinted that they would shift their votes to pull our troops out ASAP, in the end continue/d to voted for the president and war. Again, it’s the Republicans that are failing on this issue.

Rikyrah you might want to check 10 years of Tom Joyner Morning Show archives for your answer to your question about Tavis Smiley.

Are you REALLY going to try and compare 5 minute spots, twice a week ON THE RADIO, to a 24/7 NEWS CHANNEL?

Are you REALLY going there?

Trying to say that:
30 minutes per night (actually 25), five times a week

Plus

2, 5 minute spots, twice a week..

has the equivalent importance of a

24/7 Television Channel?

Not even close.

He is HARDLY an objective broker in this matter.

He put the fix in when he didn’t ask questions from the general public.

In fact his plan was to present the so called “Black Covenant” to the GOP candidates and measure them on where they stand with regard to HIS POSITIONS. I don’t recall receiving a ballot on where Black America stands on certain issues that Tavis Claims as being “Black American’s” positions.

The Covenant is what it is because of how many books it sold. If it had sold 3 copies, then maybe you’d have a point. It was a NYTimes #1 Bestseller – someone was buying it, CF.

And, until folks of your ilk put out your own ‘Covenant’ to counter it, and offer it up as an alternative, and IT become a NYTimes #1 Bestseller, The Covenant will be seen as a position paper for the Black Community.

T

This is NOT a slap at Black people but a slap at a DEMOCRATIC OPERATIVE got a PBS show and attempts to be more balanced on that front but still shows his true colors 2 days a week on the TJMS.

Ok, if they couldn’t so Tavis’ Debate, then what’s the explanations for the No Shows at
The NAACP
The Urban League

And, you still haven’t come back to me as to why the GOP, couldn’t take the CBC/Fox News Debate, since you say that it wasn’t BLACK FOLK that they objected to, but Tavis.

Also would like to add, I would and do/commend any Republican that says we should get out of Iraq asap and then puts his mouth where his money is, in other words, acts on his words by creating and bringing to vote SIGNIFICANT (again, meaning with real major consequences for not following through) legislation on ending the war asap. I probably wouldn’t agree with them or commend them for any other views/actions that they take on a number of other issues, but if their views and actions on the Iraq war are equal to the above re: SIGNIFICANT legislation, I would give them cudos on that issue.

The Iraq War is not a partisan situation, it’s a life and death one, and it should be treated with sincerity.

But again, thus far, overall, it has really been the Democrats in Congress stepping up to try to help the troops and end the war among other things.

First of all, Tavis Smiley is not by any stretch of the imagination as controversial, polarizing, and/or notorious an entity as Faux Frickin News and implying that he is is more than a mite ridiculous and suspicious.

(Case and point: Tavis Smiley has never endorsed and perpetrated an active campaign to practically slander one of the major GOP Presidential candidates by implying that he has/d possible [rhymes with everests] connections, and as such was/is a threat to U.S. and World safety/security all because of the spelling of his LAST NAME among other dumb as shit reasons.)

Secondly, see my initial comment above re: if what your claiming is true re: the reasons the Republicans declined to be a part of the debate hosted by Tavis Smiley. They should find the balls (I’m guessing they’re still looking) to say as much or just straight out decline. The fact that they haven’t done so, and instead gave a STILL OBVIOUSLY bullshit excuse about scheduling conflicts (if I were a presidential candidate, at least a smart one, and I knew months in advance about a major debate being held for a group of people that my base and I were GENUINELY actively trying to recruit, I would clear my damn schedule for said debate, but again, smart IS the key word) says, intentionally or unintentionally, a HECK of a lot (and none of it is good). Incidentally, why won’t they show up to the Univision debate either? And if what your saying is true, then I’m guessing that if the remaining GOP Presidential candidates who, because they are currently trailing in the polls, have a lot more to lose in facing such a “hostile” (as you imply) crowd and who haven’t outright declined the debate invite show up then you will view them as being what…dumb? Careless? What?

Thirdly, DEMS HAVE been the ones writing and bringing to vote MEANINGFUL legislation to help our troops and end the war in Iraq, etc. It’s the REPUBS that have been voting it down EVERY damn time. So no, it hasn’t just been “hearings and nonsense” that have been conducted. The Democrats HAVE actually been taking a strong stand on this issue in terms of trying to pass the legislation to do what it takes to help our troops and end the war. It’s the Republicans and the president that are holding this issue back.

Final point, slightly related to the above paragraph, NEWSFLASH Unfortunately, as much as we would like and do try to “MOVE ON,” they, as in many of your conservative, neoCon, fanatic, Republican friends among others (and yes I know that Democrats can be racists too) won’t fucking let us (not on our own terms anyway) UNLESS we make them by marching and protesting, etc. You can choose to ignore this fact if it helps you get up in the morning and serves your agenda (whatever that might be) but I guarantee that ignoring/dismissing it will not make it go away and/or fix it and as a results of your indifference/inaction, the next generation will have to deal with and hopefully the continued bullshit (though if you’re a Republican that probably won’t bother you a bit since you all seem hell bent on saddling future generations with MOUNTAINS of debt due to an UNPRECEDENTED U.S. deficit on top of every damn thing else).

CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP

Agree with you 100% CeCe

We have too many BIASED Black folks that SEEK TO bond their BLACKNESS with their BIASED IDEOLOGY. They are shills for the DEMOCRATS.

Stop using my RACE to advance YOUR party and YOUR ideology.

Where was Tavis Smiley in cautioning the Democrats a few weeks ago about the consequences of their cancellation?

CLEARLY your vote for the Democrat or Republican was hinging on what you heard the Republicans say that particular evening.

:-/ :-/ :-/

From a RELATIVE basis -MAYBE they are telling you that they have an ALTERNATIVE EVENT that will prove more FRUITFUL for them.

It is amazing to me how people who have had their AZZES HELD OUT for someone else to kiss for a long time are surprised with the people return the favor.

If ONLY you could focus on the RESULTS derived from the people who DO SHOW UP TO YOUR DEBATES once you vote for them at a 92% + clip in your cities around America. THEN you would be doing something.

Oh what a difference a few weeks makes. A short time about the Black leftwing Blogesphere were giving each other high fives for getting the Democratic debate canceled.

Rikyrah you might want to check 10 years of Tom Joyner Morning Show archives for your answer to your question about Tavis Smiley.

He is HARDLY an objective broker in this matter.

In fact his plan was to present the so called “Black Covenant” to the GOP candidates and measure them on where they stand with regard to HIS POSITIONS. I don’t recall receiving a ballot on where Black America stands on certain issues that Tavis Claims as being “Black American’s” positions.

In the end Fox News – biased right was shot down by YOU ALL and Tavis Smiley – biased LEFT and Democrat was shot down by the GOP.

This is NOT a slap at Black people but a slap at a DEMOCRATIC OPERATIVE got a PBS show and attempts to be more balanced on that front but still shows his true colors 2 days a week on the TJMS.

To add to my above comment: And if we’re playing the “Dems did it too game” (though it makes no sense on this issue) why don’t the Republicans play the “Dems did it too game” when it comes to drafting and voting YES on SIGNIFICANT (as in with consequences for doing the contrary) legislation to provide health care, rest breaks, armor, etc. for our troops and to get them out of the debacle in Iraq ASAP? I would love the Republicans to play the “Dems did it too game” there.

If that’s the case then the Republican candidates should find the balls (though I suspect the search would take a while), to come out and definitively say that they refuse to do the Tavis Smiley debate because of the issues you brought up, rather than give some bullshit — BULL-FUCKING-SHIT– lame, “insulting to anyone with a iota of intelligence” excuse about “scheduling conflicts.”