- Solidarity

- Sharing

- Rejecting selfish whitosphere capitalist blog monopoly culture in favor of socialistic sharing of articles, information, readers and advocacy;

- Selflessness;

- Mutual respect and consideration (hat tipping, information sharing, encouragement . . .

- Diligence

- Damned smart people and excellent writers with an acutely well-tuned sense of what’s important to Black people . . . . . . . . . .

I salute you, my kinfolk!4. You’ve come a long way and every one of you is making your mark on the battlefield.

peace, Villager

You cannot build a Blackosphere. I know I’ve tried. That is because the biggest black names in blogging, speaking for people who have been here more than a minute, do not agree on politics or culture. They can’t stand to be in the same room with each other, and that is exactly how it should be, because the fact of the matter is that black politics, like black people runs the gamut.

The formula for success in the ’sphere is determined by the form. If you want a big black community, then you do what the big non-black community blogs like Kos or LGF have done. If you want something a little smarter, then you do something like what Winds of Change or Crooked Timber have done – form a group blog.

I think that in the end you will find in the blog world exactly what you find in the real world. Only individual voices will stand out and people will find their way to those voices and hear them out.

Quick. Think of the organization whose membership included Zora Neale Hurston, James Baldwin, Maya Angelou, Malcolm X and Richard Wright.

There never was one.

Your question about attempting assimilation versus self-segregate is an interesting one. I’ve not chosen either course.

Why is this kind of “help” necessary? The thing that strikes me most about this conversation, especially as this relates to DKos, is how misguided folks can be about the place. It is not Kos you need to convice, it is the community of Kossacks that you need to convince.

DKos, especially in its Scoop iteration largely lives because of its community. I’ve been at DKos (mostly lurking, but I do post periodically) since before the Dean Wars. While Kos has frontpage real estate to discuss the stuff that interests him, much of the really interesting stuff goes on in the diarys and that is where community is made and minds are engaged.

If you’ve watched long enough, you know that issues and ideas have something of a cycle — when Dean was hot, the best thing you could do to get lots of high rating was to join in on a Dean diary. The partisans of other contenders could hardly get any real estate whatsoever, except for Clark and later Edwards. That, of course, changed pretty quickly as the primary season changed. As for policy — there are issues that perennially get plenty of play: health care, energy, Iraq war news. But even then, there is enough going on over there that plenty of good stuff scrolls off of the page and does not get a chance for better engagement with the group.

DKos is a marketplace of ideas and every diarist has to compete in that marketplace. Diaries on some subjects are much more likely than others to get engagement. Diaries from some more than others are more likely to get some engagement. But none of those folks had their status handed to them — they each earned some respect and trust from the community.

So when I read Mr. Holland’s opus re: being banned from DKos and others not having much success in being heard, I want to know what did you do to earn some chops over there? I remember one of Mr. Holland’s diaries over at Kos and I was not much interested in it or the discussion it did or did not generate. Which means I did not seek out others, not was clicking on new ones a priority. That is likely true for others, too.

I agree with most here that it is vitally important for the blogs, especially the go to blogs for progressives to have black voices as regular contributors to the evolution of a progressive narrative. But to go back to Kos, there are some efforts to get past the usual narrative. For instance, Armando challenged folks to get real about the subject which sparked a few highly recommended and commented diaries. These diaries featured many comments of the usual pablum from white folk, but there were people genuinely trying to get real about race and racism within a progressive framework. I hope that you all participated in those conversations. In another instance, there is a diarist called dopper0189 over at Kos who is doing a weekly roundup of news and discussions from Black blogs and other news sites trying to highlight what black voices in other places may be talking about this week. For all I know, dopper0189 may be one of you, but this individual is doing the work that diarists looking to have a long-term impact do. Supporting this person’s work, by recommending his/her diaries and helping to move forward the discussion and perhaps providing some links of your own is a way that a few of us can help dopper0189 build a feature that may earn a wider audience.

There is no doubt that there are going to be folks who are simply not that interested in the concerns of black people. But there is no doubt that the business of coalition building between black progressives and their white counterparts is necessary. And you don’t build a coalition by standing on the side complaining that someone is not giving you some recognition or acknowledgement. Horsetrading and tough engagements will be necessary, but little will simply be given. The good news , I think is that there is plenty of an audience out there who are already sympathetic to many of our issues if we are willing to defend a place for them.

Sorry this is so long – I read Mr. Holland’s diary at MyDD and this one yesterday and have thought about this a lot in that 24 hours.

You can be provocative, but kos is a community and if the community decides that your sole intent is too be disruptive, then off you go. It has nothing to do with your race. Sometimes a pipe is just a pipe.

Of course, where there is power, there is usually a concerted effort to keep as much of it as possible out of the hands of Black people. So why should the blogosphere be any different? We need to understand how power is actually achieved in this format and then go after it ourselves rather than expecting to be allotted our “fair share” of the platforms they conceive for themselves.

I had not read much of brother Holland on Kos, mostly because I have already rejected much of what comes out of Kos as the same old BS with a pseudo progressive democratic twist. That includes most of the Black bloggers that manage to make it to the mainstream. Occasionally educational, often entertaining, but BS nonetheless.

So I went over and read a bit today, looking for the objectionable material, and the bombs he was supposedly dropping. Being who and what I am, I was singularly unimpressed. Holland, you lost me almost as soon as you voiced support for Billary. I kept reading and you are usually educational, often entertaining, and yet BS nonetheless. As a rejected blogger yourself, I’m sure you will take what may appear to be a personal attack on my part, as simply the constructive criticism that I meant for it to be.

People like Field, and myself will never be mainstream, probably not even mainstream in the “Blackosphere”. So keep on getting it off your chest!! I know I will.
exodusmentality.blogspot.com

I’m glad you started your own blog. Now you can say what you feel to your hearts content.

“The Fire Next Time.”

If you say something that makes posters over there uncomfortable, you get banned. I don’t care what Kos says about inclusion, it’s basically inclusion on his rules. I should know; I kept a diary there for over a year, and when you bring up racism or sexism, if they don’t agree with you, you get flamed and troll-rated.

Until Kos started hating on Harold Ford’s Senate Campaign (and Harold, personally)those who were familiar with Mr. Ford and his basic a-holery, were trying to warn Kos posters that the boy would turn on them as soon as he got the Senate seat. There were some white posters in that bunch trying to warn all of America not to fall in love with Ford.

They got flamed to hell and back. Only when Kos ripped Harold a new one for his comments on the gay marriage amendment in New Jersey, did the blogsphere on DKos turn on Harold.

Real Kool-Aid Drinkers over at DKos, and what makes it bad is that they’re trying to pass themselves off as progressives or liberals, or both.

I’m sorry, but if Kos is a true supporter of freedom of speech and sharing of ideas, even if you disagree with them, dissent is the true concept of democracy. Trying to stifle someone’s voice because of their comments is doing exactly what Bush and the media has done for the last seven years. And Black Bloggers should not enable Kos, either, because that attempt to stifle other voices because they don’t sing your tune, is what Kos is doing.

There is always the danger of becoming what we most despise. Kos has gone Hollywood, and is fast becoming what he most despises. I saw that when he flip-flopped on his support of Ned Lamont against Lieberman, and his support of Paul Hackett until Sherrod Brown threw his hat into the Senate ring, and Chuck Schumer and Rahm Emmanuel told Hackett to STHU and sit down.

Hackett didn’t go quietly, and Kos was among the ones telling Hackett to drink that can of STHU, and then insulted his readers by saying he’d always supported Sherrod Brown.

Until a poster dug up one of Kos’ own posts verbally supporting Paul Hackett.

I think that blogger got banned, too.

Before trying to court favor with Kos, we who are African-American bloggers should know what that really means, and that may mean keeping silent on the truth regarding African-Americans when you know damn well you should be shouting the truth.

Also thanks for you comments about my blog. I’m just a little concerned about your comments about comfort zone and boundaries.

I do want to take people out of norms, comfort zones and boundaries. As African Americans have been taken out of norms, comfort zones and boundaries in America for hundreds of years. Just ask and Katrina survivor. I guess I need to put just a bit more zing and bite into my posts. We could learn a lot from Martin and Malcolm about how to communicate in a way that people, all people, understand.

Mr. Holland your a man who has a lot to say. My take is your a “in your face” progressive blogger. I don’t always agree with your opinions, but that’s ok, because no one ever agrees with all of mine.

Should you have been banned from the blog Dailykos that was up to the Dailykos?

I have my doubts to whether the dailykos is truly interested in expanding diversity of opinion, and including African American Opinion on its blog.

Dailykos knew you and you knew Dailykos. When bloggers join other blog groups, and when blog groups invite other bloggers to join and post, each should have an agreement of understanding on post content and discussions.

I totally understand what Jill was pointing out. It’s probably something you already know. If one wants to survive inside white bloggers groups we may want to consider massaging our posts and remarks in a way that gains the best outcomes. Vinegar V honey.

But again it’s our choice, it’s our opinions. I’m not saying we should become Condi Rice’s. If, for any reasons you feel uncomfortable with groups like DailyKos consider moving on and say I quit, rather than them saying your banned or fired.

But why am I saying all this to a Black Man in America and a survivor. You knows this.

There are Black folks that can work inside a white organizational structures, and there are people that don’t have the temperament or patience to work inside. When working inside, one should know how to move around the organization.

It’s tough being a field Negro inside the house. Sometimes one must say, hey, I don’t belong in this house, I need to be out in the field educating the other field folk to what is going on, because the folks in the house are not getting it or just refuse to admit there is something wrong. It appears the only thing Holland has been doing is saying the house is burning, and yelling “Fire.”

There are people who feel that yelling “Fire” in a crowded building is not the best way to tell people of the building is on fire. Learn the system, pull the fire alarm then if no one is listening yell Fire and get the hell out of the building.

When blacks participate in larger numbers, our voices will be heard. In the meantime, those of us who are already blogging and reading blogs need to help others in the black community understand why this medium of communication is powerful and why their voices need to be present at the table.

Man, I could go on for days about this, but then I already have over at DailyKos! You might call this link the “How to Get Banned at DailyKos Cook Book”.

http://www.dailykos.com/search?offset=0&old_count=30&string=francislholland&type=diary_by&sortby=relevance&search=Search&count=30&wayback=525600&wayfront=0&search_archive=yes

Hillary’s my friend and has been ever since she tried to implement national health insurance 13 years ago. So, when I read in the Washington Post that some guy named “Markos” had dedicated his life to trashing Hillary, I decided to go to his blog and tell him and his sycophants just what I thought of their “progressive” advocacy.

To me, a white blog is like a white restaurant. The owner might be white, but he still has to serve everybody, regardless of color. If white people speak their white minds in the blogosphere than I am being treated equally when I, as a Black person, can speak my Black mind.

If I’m free to say what white agree with, but not free to say what I think, as a Black man, then I AM being treated differently.

Most people at DailyKos live for the approval of others, to win recommendations. I never told anyone, but I always just looked at my “impact”, and the “high impact list almost always included the diaries I had written, based on the number of people who had visited my diaries to argue with me about my ideas and my ways of expressing those ideas. For a Black person, to be listened to everyday in a group that is 97.5% white is quite a victory, particularly when you are too far from those whites for them to gather a lynch party and hang you from a tree!

Most of the time when Black people post “reasonable” things about our experience at DK, they get, mostly ignored. I’d prefer to be reviled than ignored. My diaries were consistently on the “high impact diaries” list. http://www.dailykos.com/search?offset=0&old_count=30&string=francislholland&type=diary&sortby=relevance&search=Search&count=30&wayback=525600&wayfront=0&search_archive=yes
I wrote about DailyKos’ hypocrisy both because DailyKos pack mentality means that readers there are irresistably drawn to diaries that gore, skewer and roast their sacred cows. “How dare I?” Because their every comment (even their criticism) pushes my diary higher on the “high impact diary list”, maybe even to the extent of being picked up by the New York Times. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/12/11/121745/50
So my audience was far greater than those most immediate Kossacks who spend their time criticizing me.

Over time, I noticed that my diaries were recommended by Blacks and Latinos who had never participated actively before. They were drawn out into community interaction by a voice with which they could identify, and they were encouraged to speak up, even at the risk of being ostracized.

I feel vindicated to have helped to create a vocabulary for the way Blacks are treated in the “progessive” “whitosphere”.

They hate the name “whitosphere” precisely because it accurately describes the state of affairs there.

They hate the term “blog apartheid”, although their blogs operate on a “white pass system”, meaning that I have to have a pass from a white person if I want to participate there. That sounds like apartheid to me.

And wherever did they get the idea of “banning” people as was done in Apartheid South Africa, instead of endeavoring to respect the free speech protections enshrined in America’s First Amendment?

Why all the anonymity at DailyKos? To act as a mob, under cover of darkess, like the Klu Klux Klan, and with no public responsibility for the actions they take?

When Blacks go to white blogs, we are entering a company town where our Constitutional rights are suspended. There is no right to free speech, Due Process or Equal Protection of the laws. Any such system is inherently oppressive, particularly for minority views.

DK and MyDD have taught me the difference between “progressives” and liberals. Liberals give lip service to wanting Black participation and equality and they feel embarrased when it is shown conclusively that they are failing. “Progressives”, however, have entirely discarded an pretense of caring about diversity and equality. That’s why Matt Stoller at MyDD can wonder out loud whether there is anything wrong with separate but equal blogs among partisans of the Democratic Party. If he were a Republican, we would expect nothing more from him, but because he calls himself a “progressive” he invokes a standard that he has no intention of meeting.

I moved to Brazil three years ago, when I finally realized that white America (and then France) were driving me completely insane with their racism, (one theme among many that I’d like to address in my autobiography). I often wonder why I cannot just enjoy Brazil by forgetting the United States entirely, having learned in retrospect that I simply lack the fortitude to cope with entrenched racism at first hand on a daily basis. Effectively, I left the United States to get away from precisely the kinds of experiences that I encountered daily at DailyKos.

But, I can’t seem to forget the United States. I can’t seem to renounce the hope of one day ending the 43-term exclusively white male monopoly of the presidency.

I could never pass for white at a blog or anywhere else. My every thought and experience are conditioned by my experience as a Black person, even when I wish it were not so. I suffer from post traumatic white stress disorder, and my nightmares reflect the unsettled state of my pain. So there is no complete flight and no perfect refuge, even seven thousand miles away.

It is very important that Hillary Clinton (or Barack Obama or Bill Richardson) wins the Presidency. If they do, I will take it as a sign, however imperfect, that the United States is willing to begin discarding the centuries-old that colonize our minds like bacteria on rotten fruit. The election of another pair of white males would confirm the painful status quo from which I fled, and to which I simply cannot return. Until the monopoly ends, I will remain an exile.

I am a relatively happy exile. I live in a Brazilian state where everyone is Black or Indian or mestizo, and where Afro-Brazilian culture is the celebrated norm, the official culture. The police officers, computer technicians, waitresses, tax collectors, fishermen and bookstore salespeople are Black like me. I am not treated as an oddity, like a man-turned-beetle from a Franz Kafka novel.

My Afro-Brazilian step-daughters are influenced by national television culture in which “white is still mostly right”. Yet they have never experienced the direct acts of racism that I did as a child, and they only know of American-style racism because I tell them about it.

I have all of this to talk about and more. Very few are the ocasions wherein the white people of America are confronted with the unalloyed feelings and opinions of Blacks, which is why the sentiments that are normal to us remain entirely foreign to American whites, who have the luxury of ignoring us most of the time.

A philosopher said that “the masses of men live lives of quiet desperation.” I decided years ago that although I might be desperate, I certainly did not have to be quiet.

If you’ve read this far, thanks for giving a damn! I’ve started my own blog to express my opinions without threat of censorship and I’m linking your blogs, finding a new community.

francislholland@yahoo.com

francislholland.blogspot.com

I think that the White Progressive Blogosphere is all talk about diversity. I don’t think they really want honest Black opinion.

About #3 – I think Black Bloggers should think about creating their own – ActBlack and BlackAds. The time of waiting for scraps from White folks should be over by now. It’s not self-segregation – it’s self-determination, IMO.

No, it wasn’t appropriate for Mr. Holland to be banned from DailyKos? What could they have been afraid of with him?

If white liberals want to be inclusive then they need to hear it from us, no matter how loud or unpleasant. Plus, they don’t need to hear it from re-determined, handpicked channels (like you hahaha). They need more than a few stray bombs. Indeed, they might pick up some flava to battle the right wing monsters out there, rather than the whiney, bee-yotch methodology that they’ve used for so long. When they win, it’s usually from dumbass luck or circumstance, not skill…

I suspect that this is because despite some of the whiter blogs saying they “value” a black perspective, the truth is that black perspectives the white majority in forums like dKos, doesn’t already agree with make them profoundly uncomfortable. And black people speaking TO black people as such makes them uncomfortable as well. Try starting a conversation on dKos about racially selective mass incarceration and its deleterious effects on the black community, and see how few responses you get. Seriously. Let me know. I’ll chime in.

Talking to white people about the matters WE are concerned with in forums dominated by whites who not only don’t see these as matters of urgent concern, but many of whom don’t even recognize our right to have concerns any different from theirs can be quite a difficult and thankless task. In the face of such opposition, one easily could get frustrated and label those who questioned one’s right to a different perspective “racists”, not entirely without justification, But that gets you banned.

All in all, it’s got to be really difficult to have those kind of conversations in forums where many of the participants suppose that just having a black point of view is fundamentally illegitimate or beyond the pale. Not sure I’d have had the patience of Francis Holland with that crowd. It’s much easier to talk to whites in a forum that YOU control. And that ain’t dKos.